SFX-100 + Next Level V3 Owners Thread

[anton_Chez]

Hello friends! It's me again back with another helpful and entertaining RD thread! This time focusing on combining motion's new kid on the block, the SFX-100 AC Servo full chassis motion solution with our current favourite seat mover, the Next Level Racing V3 Motion Platform. We already have extensive threads for either of these amazing pieces of sim racing hardware, you can read more about them both in the links below:

- SFX-100 / SimFeedback-AC DIY

- Next Level Racing V3 Motion Platform

This thread will focus on the owners or potential owners looking to combine these solutions for their sim racing motion experience. Looking forward to seeing everyone's input on getting the most out of this setup. Feel free to leave suggestion, questions, settings and profiles and anything in between. The other threads are huge now and have a lot of discussion, let's get this one up there, too!

 

[sebna]

Ahh, very good. I will be watching closely as NLRv3 owner who is destined to fail miserably the fight against temptation of getting SFX-100 as well.

Thanks Anton!

 

[Cote Dazur]

I have neither, but 2019 is most probably the year for me to add 2dof motion to my SIM experience. I am curious on why would one add the SFX 100 to the NLR V3?
I thought it would be one or the other. Aren’t they basically doing the same thing? Both offering 2dof.

 

[sebna]

I have neither, but 2019 is most probably tvhe year for me to add 2dof motion to my SIM experience. I am curious on why would one add the SFX 100 to the NLR V3?
I thought it would be one or the other. Aren’t they basically doing the same thing? Both offering 2dof.

SFX-100 is 3dof, generally best suited for road surface and suspension simulation while NLRv3 is 2dof seat mover well suited for g-forces simulation.

Combining them together allows both system to focus (with help of right config) on what they do best and to complement each other.

At least this is the idea

Cheers

 

[Cote Dazur]

Thank you, I did not realized SFX 100 is 3dof.
Found this video interesting.

 

[HoiHman]

I hope this thread fails

Just kidding, if all you guys are too enthousiastic, i just might regret selling my NLMv3 to @sebna

Seriously though, i think there are advantages of having the 2 combined.

Back when i started my build of the SFX100 it was still uncertain how much weight would be an issue. We all know now that the SFX100 can support the extra weight of the SFX100 without a problem.

What i would like to see is a video of having both combined and using a heavy motion profile in simfeedback.

-How's the wobble and do you guys have to turn the SFX100 motion down to compensate for this, or is all good ?
-Is it like having a monitor on the rig ( i have one ), meaning you can have pretty good motion, but you can't go full throttle to spare the hardware?
-Wat effects are you going to disable on the NLMv3 and which effects are you going to turn off/down on the SFX100

 

[wajdi]

This year I will add finally motion to my cockpit, mostly the V3( a DD wheel to). Would like to add the SFX100, but I’m afraid to put my self in this project.

 

[sjb266]

I can vouch that the combination is amazing.. although I’m only using surge on the V3.. it’s an expensive way to get that effect but the full motion platform just can’t offer anything like it..

Since having both I’ve tried to convince myself I only need one or the other.. but the SFX100 offers so much in heave, pitch, and rumble effects and the V3 in surge that for me the marriage between the two is perfect.

The other day I said to Anton if I had to chose I’d chose the V3 but after a few more days and trying some user profiles I’m not so sure.

Get both!

 

[sjb266]

I hope this thread fails

Just kidding, if all you guys are too enthousiastic, i just might regret selling my NLMv3 to @sebna

Seriously though, i think there are advantages of having the 2 combined.

Back when i started my build of the SFX100 it was still uncertain how much weight would be an issue. We all know now that the SFX100 can support the extra weight of the SFX100 without a problem.

What i would like to see is a video of having both combined and using a heavy motion profile in simfeedback.

-How's the wobble and do you guys have to turn the SFX100 motion down to compensate for this, or is all good ?
-Is it like having a monitor on the rig ( i have one ), meaning you can have pretty good motion, but you can't go full throttle to spare the hardware?
-Wat effects are you going to disable on the NLMv3 and which effects are you going to turn off/down on the SFX100

I'll take a video today for you Henk using Jochan's RSR 60hz profile - now I am losing my mouse after about 3 corners so you will be happy!

 

[sebna]

I can vouch that the combination is amazing.. although I’m only using surge on the V3.. it’s an expensive way to get that effect but the full motion platform just can’t offer anything like it..

Since having both I’ve tried to convince myself I only need one or the other.. but the SFX100 offers so much in heave, pitch, and rumble effects and the V3 in surge that for me the marriage between the two is perfect.

The other day I said to Anton if I had to chose I’d chose the V3 but after a few more days and trying some user profiles I’m not so sure.

Get both!

Thanks for great info.

Do you use surge effect for both breaking and acceleration or breaking only?

 

[Steve D]

I've recently completed my SFX-100 build and left my NLRv3 in place to hopefully compliment it.

On it's own the SFX-100 is, for sure, incredibly impressive and it must be said that it's still very early days for me in terms of getting used to it. On top of that I haven't even started to get to grips with the wonderful Simfeedback software yet and there is clearly a huge amount of adjustability there. A veritable 'tweakers' paradise!

However, having owned an NLRv3 for over a year, when using the SFX-100 on its own I immediately felt I was missing certain motion cues that the seat mover provides me with based on the 'less is more' approach I adopt with profile set up. That's not to say that chassis motion and the actuator set up was a disappointment, more a result of me having developed such a high level of muscle memory with the V3 that I was naturally expecting certain forces to be delivered based on the inputs I was making and the behaviour of the car on track. Braking for example, without the V3's surge feedback, felt odd and unnatural and I felt an immediate disconnect, such is its importance to me personally. V3 owners who forget to switch on the platform before heading out will possibly understand where I'm coming from. I also race solely in VR, where I consider the feedback, from motion platforms especially, to be most keenly experienced. Again though, I must stress that this is entirely down to what I've become used to and had I not owned a seat mover, I wouldn't know what I was missing.

But then the moment came when I experienced both motion solutions together in combination and suddenly the planets aligned. To me they complimented each other perfectly and were completely in-tune with one another. I'm not one for worrying about achieving total realism and chasing it at every turn as life's too short and I'm more than happy with my lot but my experience and immersion went to the next level regardless. I was blown away and on the basis that I've yet to discover what Simfeedback can offer or properly revisit the V3 profiles I've set up, to see what works best across both motion platforms, I'm excited with regards the potential.

I certainly feel very, very lucky and privileged to own such a set up!

 

[anton_Chez]

Can understand exactly where Steve is coming from. I think that we have to get around the idea that having two motion solutions combined means that we have to use every effect at maximum output to justify the expense. I mean, you only need the smallest bit in heave to understand how much the road and curbs and incline and decline of the track effect the car. If you were to drive on a circuit in a static rig, maybe just with a DD wheel and then drive the same circuit with the motion going, you'd swear it's a different place. Everything just becomes so alive the moment you add movement to the car.

To achieve this, we don't need a great deal. But the difference between zero motion capability and even a small amount of motion capability is like thousands, and thousands more if you wanted to, of dollars to access it. The difference between a little motion and a lot of motion is a slider. Zero dollars. Using only Surge and for me Sway in the V3 is only using maybe 25 - 35% of its capabilities. But using all of its capabilities, solely relying on it for motion and forgoing building an actuator based motion platform entirely leaves you still probably missing 50% of the total experience.

A better way to look at this without breaking everyone's brain. I have a complete motion system package. It cost me roughly $7K AUD, around 15 hours, a little swearing, confusion and frustration.... Let's say $10K AUD because we NEED the 80 20 chassis for this to work. For 10 grande, I have the base for everything I need to experience motion. In pretty much every way apart from physically sliding traction loss, or yaw, which only one company that I know of in the world offers an affordable turn key solution for sim racing. Of course you can say it doesn't do EVERYTHING, but overall I'd say it's better to look at our combination of SFX-100 and V3 as exactly that. A package in which one fills the void the other creates.

As I've said to Steve elsewhere, I've come to appreciate my V3 more and more the longer I've had it. It comes down to a few things. Getting used to it, the muscle memory and actually relearning how to race when the car is actually doing things and reacting to your inputs. The fact that we've had a long time to curate and hone the profiles to a level where I feel I've eliminated the things I didn't like about the platform out of the box and enhanced the things it does exceptionally well. The addition of features to the software by Motionsystems, both on their own and from feedback from users. The proper mounting of the unit in a legitimately solid and customisable cockpit. All of these things also apply to the SFX-100 build, but we're at the beginning stages, whereas with the V3 we're at the almost veteran stage. Not to mention that now we have to go back and readjust what we want from the V3 profiles and combine them the best we can with the new DOF and power we find ourselves with. That's the purpose of this thread.

My intention is to start out using Sway and Surge from the V3. Completely remove the Heave effect and see what else can be gained from still leaving a little Roll and Pitch enabled. Bumps is a weird one because I've never really felt what that setting reacts to.

 

[anton_Chez]

This year I will add finally motion to my cockpit, mostly the V3( a DD wheel to). Would like to add the SFX100, but I’m afraid to put my self in this project.

I'd advise reading the entire thread in the link in the OP. So many people, myself included, did not want to take on the project themselves but did so anyway. Every person that completes their build is another person that can help with potential builders. I am glad it's over, for the most part anyway, but it doesn't mean it wasn't fun, again, for the most part. I was quite surprised that I managed to get the wiring pretty much perfect first go.

 

[Steve D]

Can understand exactly where Steve is coming from. I think that we have to get around the idea that having two motion solutions combined means that we have to use every effect at maximum output to justify the expense. I mean, you only need the smallest bit in heave to understand how much the road and curbs and incline and decline of the track effect the car. If you were to drive on a circuit in a static rig, maybe just with a DD wheel and then drive the same circuit with the motion going, you'd swear it's a different place. Everything just becomes so alive the moment you add movement to the car.

To achieve this, we don't need a great deal. But the difference between zero motion capability and even a small amount of motion capability is like thousands, and thousands more if you wanted to, of dollars to access it. The difference between a little motion and a lot of motion is a slider. Zero dollars. Using only Surge and for me Sway in the V3 is only using maybe 25 - 35% of its capabilities. But using all of its capabilities, solely relying on it for motion and forgoing building an actuator based motion platform entirely leaves you still probably missing 50% of the total experience.

A better way to look at this without breaking everyone's brain. I have a complete motion system package. It cost me roughly $7K AUD, around 15 hours, a little swearing, confusion and frustration.... Let's say $10K AUD because we NEED the 80 20 chassis for this to work. For 10 grande, I have the base for everything I need to experience motion. In pretty much every way apart from physically sliding traction loss, or yaw, which only one company that I know of in the world offers an affordable turn key solution for sim racing. Of course you can say it doesn't do EVERYTHING, but overall I'd say it's better to look at our combination of SFX-100 and V3 as exactly that. A package in which one fills the void the other creates.

As I've said to Steve elsewhere, I've come to appreciate my V3 more and more the longer I've had it. It comes down to a few things. Getting used to it, the muscle memory and actually relearning how to race when the car is actually doing things and reacting to your inputs. The fact that we've had a long time to curate and hone the profiles to a level where I feel I've eliminated the things I didn't like about the platform out of the box and enhanced the things it does exceptionally well. The addition of features to the software by Motionsystems, both on their own and from feedback from users. The proper mounting of the unit in a legitimately solid and customisable cockpit. All of these things also apply to the SFX-100 build, but we're at the beginning stages, whereas with the V3 we're at the almost veteran stage. Not to mention that now we have to go back and readjust what we want from the V3 profiles and combine them the best we can with the new DOF and power we find ourselves with. That's the purpose of this thread.

My intention is to start out using Sway and Surge from the V3. Completely remove the Heave effect and see what else can be gained from still leaving a little Roll and Pitch enabled. Bumps is a weird one because I've never really felt what that setting reacts to.

Epic post mate! Nail hit firmly on head!

 

[Hurrikaine]

What about this Simcraft surge sway platform to add the the SFX100?

 

[Joe Extraknow]

I've recently completed my SFX-100 build and left my NLRv3 in place to hopefully compliment it.

On it's own the SFX-100 is, for sure, incredibly impressive and it must be said that it's still very early days for me in terms of getting used to it. On top of that I haven't even started to get to grips with the wonderful Simfeedback software yet and there is clearly a huge amount of adjustability there. A veritable 'tweakers' paradise!

However, having owned an NLRv3 for over a year, when using the SFX-100 on its own I immediately felt I was missing certain motion ques that the seat mover provides me with based on the 'less is more' approach I adopt with profile set up. That's not to say that chassis motion and the actuator set up was a disappointment, more a result of me having developed such a high level of muscle memory with the V3 that I was naturally expecting certain forces to be delivered based on the inputs I was making and the behaviour of the car on track. Braking for example, without the V3's surge feedback, felt odd and unnatural and I felt an immediate disconnect, such is its importance to me personally. V3 owners who forget to switch on the platform before heading out will possibly understand where I'm coming from. I also race solely in VR, where I consider the feedback, from motion platforms especially, to be most keenly experienced. Again though, I must stress that this is entirely down to what I've become used to and had I not owned a seat mover, I wouldn't know what I was missing.

But then the moment came when I experienced both motion solutions together in combination and suddenly the planets aligned. To me they complimented each other perfectly and were completely in-tune with one another. I'm not one for worrying about achieving total realism and chasing it at every turn as life's too short and I'm more than happy with my lot but my experience and immersion went to the next level regardless. I was blown away and on the basis that I've yet to discover what Simfeedback can offer or properly revisit the V3 profiles I've set up, to see what works best across both motion platforms, I'm excited with regards the potential.

I certainly feel very, very lucky and privileged to own such a set up!

Agree 100%. My rig is a combined of both seat mover and frame mover, I used 5 SCN actuators. Feel far better and more realistic than stand alone one. It is game change for me.
Note, I have been using seat mover for near 7 years. Until last year I build a frame mover with the seat mover on the top. Wow, what a difference! I am still building my 225 degree curved project screen for my rig. See videos by search "re-building my motion rig" on youtube.

 

[Joe Extraknow]

I've recently completed my SFX-100 build and left my NLRv3 in place to hopefully compliment it.


However, having owned an NLRv3 for over a year, when using the SFX-100 on its own I immediately felt I was missing certain motion ques that the seat mover provides me with based on the 'less is more' approach I adopt with profile set up. That's not to say that chassis motion and the actuator set up was a disappointment, more a result of me having developed such a high level of muscle memory with the V3 that I was naturally expecting certain forces to be delivered based on the inputs I was making and the behaviour of the car on track. Braking for example, without the V3's surge feedback, felt odd and unnatural and I felt an immediate disconnect, such is its importance to me personally. V3 owners who forget to switch on the platform before heading out will possibly understand where I'm coming from. I also race solely in VR, where I consider the feedback, from motion platforms especially, to be most keenly experienced. Again though, I must stress that this is entirely down to what I've become used to and had I not owned a seat mover, I wouldn't know what I was missing.

But then the moment came when I experienced both motion solutions together in combination and suddenly ...,

I certainly feel very, very lucky and privileged to own such a set up!

Your "less is more" is on the point. Indeed is matter of 'incorrect vs correct" in this regard. Using 4 actuators cannot produce 3DOF motion no matter how to configure.
Such scheme will not produce better or realistic feel on racing sim. Read the comments from 'anasmak11' on the SRG review video on D-Box. You far more better of with 2 actuators for 2dof.

If need heave, you need to configure 3 actators like this, instead of 4 actuators on 4 corners:

Thus, will free up to have 3 actuators fully independent to accurately and correctly reproduce 3dof motion.
No offend here, just try to help.

 

[anton_Chez]

Got my build pretty much complete now, so it's time to move onto actually getting into it and testing out what the SimFeedback software has to offer.

 

[Lasagna Smoothie]

While I admire the ambition of combining these two pieces of technology, I'd be pretty concerned about damaging the Next Level V3. Mounting the V3 on the SFX means there's a lot of extra kinetic energy that's being transferred to the V3 seat mover, and it certainly wasn't designed with this sort of application in mind. I understand there's the upcoming traction+ module for the V3, but the motion on that seems pretty tame compared to something like the SFX-100. At the very least, I'd be willing to bet that this sort of combination would void the warranty on the V3 - although I suppose you could always lie about how it was damaged.

There's a good chance that everything would be perfectly fine, but still, I personally wouldn't want to risk the very real chance of damage to a $3000 piece of equipment. I have a Prosimu T1000, and I plan to eventually combine it with Simxperience's upcoming GS-5 seat. To me, this seems like a much more sensible (and safe) way to achieve simulated surge/sway on a full platform mover. However, to each their own, and I'd certainly be interested in seeing some video of these two motion systems in concert.

 

[anton_Chez]

I would combine the GS-5 seat but it's going to run me around double what I can sell the V3 for.

So, with it being nearly 2 years old already, I'm not overly concerned with the warranty application. I already run around half the throw on the platform as it is now and once it's combined with the SFX-100 I won't need some of the effects I use now, either.

I'd be worried if it wasn't such a sturdy piece of hardware. Obviously we will be running a risk as the platform wasn't designed for this but I've also seen people running full platforms on top of the V3 so it's not something that's likely to easily break. I guess if something is going to happen, then one of us will be the unfortunate test dummy. With all of us already owning the V3 to begin with, it's not like we really planned for this setup from the outset.

I've yet to try the platforms combined. I am just becoming accustomed to the awesome feeling of a sprung chassis with the SFX-100 and quite liking everything I am feeling without the V3 even turned on. I may choose to move it on in the end, or I may choose to keep it. Either way, I would love to try a G seat but the cost is a fair bit more than I was hoping for. Combine that with import duties, tax and a large shipping bill and it's just not a smart purchase for me.

Yet.