SFX-150 and G-Belt or Dbox G1 4250

[Clover11]

It looks like I am getting a bonus this year and told myself that if I kept using my rig I would use the annual bonus to buy a motion system. For a while now, I have been wanting to build a sfx-100 now 150. I really appreciate the work that has gone into the platform. Now as I start to look at what to buy, I'm torn between doing a SFX-150 build with a g-belt or spending a bit more for a refurbished gen 1 D-box system. I'm not sure if the amount of motion is enough for me and I have never used a motion platform so I have no experience. 50 mms does not seem like much though D-box seems to be the gold standard so maybe I am just assuming more is better.

Part of what is leading me to the D-box is the tactile. I have a Buttkicker mini that I was never very impressed with. I can't really tell the difference between different things and was underwhelmed to be honest. The idea of tactile appeals to me but I don't really want to go down the giant rabbit hole of isolation and dsp tuning. My thought is the D-box would give me motion with integrated tactile that was higher quality and that might be worth the extra cost for me to get both motion and tactile sorted together.

If I go with the SFX-150, I think I would order a Thanos box and use SRS. It is not a cheap as it used to be, however, I would still have money left over to spend on a g-belt or tactile setup. Maybe I am better off with motion and a g-belt them I am with a D-box gen 1 platform. I did already buy a 3D printer with the SFX-150 in mind as some justification for buying the printer. I have been able to print quite a few things, however, both me and my printer need a few attempts sometimes to get prints right. I'd have to do some work to try to get me tolerances within spec which I kind have been dreading. I think I would be able to print everything but things might not be perfect.

I'm really just looking for something fun and that is more immersive. I'll be connecting it all to a P1-X with independent triple monitors.

What would you go for? Should I build a SFX-150 based system with a added g-Belt or spend the extra money for a refurbished D-box gen 1 4250i?

 

[Brett Horton]

SF 150 and G-Belt IMO, D-Box cant be that much better than the 150 system?.... (No comparison between the two BTW) But I do have a 150 system with Thanos (No G-Belt)
Have you looked at the e-racing RS 150 system yet? Just released last month, This is what I am running. Super system so far

 

[metalnwood]

Certainly the SFX and belt. If you are printing things and happy with the diy aspect then I suggest you look at the simhub belt tensioner as well and save another bucket load of money.

The simhub belt also has independent belt tensioning for sway if that was important to you.

I think the savings you will have made with those options could let you add a couple very nice tactile units to you rig as well.

 

[DJ_Psymon]

Definitely SFX. and G-belt (or any active belt, PT, eRacing Lab, DIY... etc).

DBox G1 is outdated and the "haptic" is just a fancy marketing term for vibration / tactile. The SFX (with the right software) is fully capable of doing tactile. Personally I don't use tactile from motion system because I don't like it to vibrating the whole rig and is no way as good as having dedicated bass shakers if installed correctly. But if tactile is only a "nice to have" feature for you, then the SFX should be sufficient.

I've gone from 50mm to 100mm to 150mm. One would never really understand the true benefit of 150mm until you have one and tuned correctly. Heave is the most important effects in motion and yes 50mm is "more than enough" for it, but heave is not the only effect! When it comes to pitch for going over big banks and steep hills, you really "need" 100mm or 150mm to deliver required angle.

And good move to go with the Thanos controller. Excellent piece of hardware and it allows you to use whatever motion software you want. It also makes it very simple to set up when you start adding traction and surge platforms.

3D printing the SFX was fun and satisfying once I managed to refine the prints. But I won't do it again given you can get a complete kit in aluminium for the same price nowadays.

 

[Clover11]

Okay, looks like everyone recommends the SFX-150. I did not know you could do tactile with the sfx-150 as well. Maybe I won't end up using it, but glad to know that it can at least act fast enough to do it. What software do you use for that? I had been thinking I would do SRS but am open to others.

The DIY active belt systems still seemed a little early stages to me and I was thinking the g-belt would be a simple fully featured option that was not super expensive. Maybe I should look a little more at the DIY option, but it all looked pretty complicated when I looked at the thread to begin with.

 

[metalnwood]

Was that the simhub one you looked at for the DIY belt? If you are printing the sfx parts then it should be easy to put the seatbelt together as well.

@cnhoff just put one together with a couple pics here and I know he is really happy with it. https://www.racedepartment.com/thre...cussion-hardware-software.137631/post-3495826

If you are getting the thanos controller then SRS is probably the easiest way to get it going while only costing a small amount. I am waiting for the next version of flypt to come out and will see what I can do with that as its a bit more customisable. I have tried the current version of it but I cant be bothered putting in a lot of time to understand it when I know a new version will be here soon'ish'

The other option is simtools.

If you are happy with no fuss, make yourself happy even if it doesnt have all the features than you will be happy with SRS. If you are a tinkerer who wants to nail down all effects for your own preference and doesnt mind spending time doing it then simtools or flypt.

If you plan to use it for flight sims then I would suggest you look at flypt as well as that does better on flight simulators

 

[Tronicgr_6DOF]

I compiled a list of sources, it it helps, for all budgets...

https://www.thanos-motion.com/links-and-vendors/

 

[Clover11]

I'm now looking at the e-racing labs new RS series. The price is really pretty good considering what parts and shipping come out to for DIY. I'm just not sure about the RS series being smaller and lighter. I know it makes is cheaper to ship and make but I was not really concerned with it's weight and wonder if I would be better off getting their DIY Mega+ kit. They list the actuators they use for the old Mega + kits but only list the RS kit as "ultra fast "push pull" actuators"

I have not really seen reviews for the new RS series yet. Part of me is just wondering if it is a little too good to be true and maybe a little to small or cheap.

 

[metalnwood]

I dont think you will have too much problem. The SFX system was based on easy available parts and the extrusion that was chosen came from germany where the designer lives.

A number of people have done designs based on smaller extrusion and many commercial ones are much smaller as they are not restricted in design based on off the shelf extrusion.

If I was to ask them one question, it would be what balscrews do they use and I am assuming they are still using at least 1610. I dont think its in their interest to go smaller there and cost wise its not much different.

Also, there shouldnt be anything inside it that would break that you couldnt source yourself quite easily.

 

[Brett Horton]

I'm now looking at the e-racing labs new RS series. The price is really pretty good considering what parts and shipping come out to for DIY. I'm just not sure about the RS series being smaller and lighter. I know it makes is cheaper to ship and make but I was not really concerned with it's weight and wonder if I would be better off getting their DIY Mega+ kit. They list the actuators they use for the old Mega + kits but only list the RS kit as "ultra fast "push pull" actuators"

I have not really seen reviews for the new RS series yet. Part of me is just wondering if it is a little too good to be true and maybe a little to small or cheap.

I am running the new RS 150 series and they are perfect! don't be worried at all!

 

[Clover11]

I checked with e-racing labs and the old kits and the new RS series use the same ball screw. I think I am going to go for the new RS series and just wish I could find a little more detail about it and how people like it.

 

[Clover11]

I ordered the RS Mega + kit earlier today. The cost was comparable to building it myself, so I just went with the kit that does not require 3d printing. Sounds like there still could be some EMI issues with some users, so I may need to get a Power Box from Thanos. I also need to buy a case for the servo drivers. I am not needing anything fancy, just a place for each servo driver to be mounted with maybe space for future upgrades.

Earlier I also go on the waiting list for a G-belt. It looks like they may have another set to ship out in mid April and I hope to be in that group. I am going to need to order a harness for that and I may end up needing to build a tower to hold the g-Belt behind my seat up high by the belt holes. My seat is a fiberglass Racetech seat and is not really flat on the back. I'm not confident in the two mounting holes through the fiberglass holding the side to side forces. Anybody have plans for a 80/20 tower to hold the G-belt or am I going to need to design something myself? Also any harness recommendations?

 

[blekenbleu]

a tower to hold the g-Belt behind my seat up high

Strongly consider mounting G-Belt at the seat base,
installing rollers at shoulder belt ports.
G-Belt is not quiet; distance helps,
and harness shoulder straps are long enough to reach.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Strongly consider mounting G-Belt at the seat base,
installing rollers at shoulder belt ports.
G-Belt is not quiet; distance helps,
and harness shoulder straps are long enough to reach.

Strongly disagree!

Everyone who had the G-Belt mounted at the seat base and moved it to the seat back reported that it worked better on the back of the seat.

The G-Belt is not that loud at least for me in VR with off ear headphones I do not find it distracting.

They tuned the profile so the actuators are quieter than they are on the G-Seat.

Go to about 5:10 and you can hear what the sound is like with the microphone positioned very close to the G-Belt to the side and directly above it.

What you can't hear is what I hear with the sounds in my VR headset. I only play in VR and with the headset on I barely notice the G-Belt.

 

[OlaGB]

Strongly disagree!

Everyone who had the G-Belt mounted at the seat base and moved it to the seat back reported that it worked better on the back of the seat.

The G-Belt is not that loud at least for me in VR with off ear headphones I do not find it distracting.

They tuned the profile so the actuators are quieter than they are on the G-Seat.

Go to about 5:10 and you can hear what the sound is like with the microphone positioned very close to the G-Belt to the side and directly above it.

What you can't hear is what I hear with the sounds in my VR headset. I only play in VR and with the headset on I barely notice the G-Belt.

Maybe you missed the part about rollers?

Wouldnt think it will make any difference how it actually works, as long as you use low friction rollers on bearings?

More work to install ofcourse, but looks better and less noise close to ears..

 

[RCHeliguy]

I didn't miss that. People have tried that and still liked it better top mounted.

You are talking hypothetical and to my ears, I wouldn't both with a more complex mounting situation that will likely reduce how well the effects work.

But it's all moot. He has a seat mover like I do, so mounting to the frame isn't an option. For that matter I in the same boat, so a frame mount was not even an option for me if I wanted to do that.

Unless I'm mixing threads up.

 

[Clover11]

I don't actually have a seat mover but am going to be adding a SFX150 style RS Mega+ actuator system. I'll be connecting the harness to the P1-X. I think I am going to try mounting to the seat, since building a tower would involve me designing something and figuring out where to order it all from. I am totally open to rollers, but I would need someone to design me something.

 

[metalnwood]

I don't actually have a seat mover but am going to be adding a SFX150 style RS Mega+ actuator system. I'll be connecting the harness to the P1-X. I think I am going to try mounting to the seat, since building a tower would involve me designing something and figuring out where to order it all from. I am totally open to rollers, but I would need someone to design me something.

To my mind, there is only one disadvantage of putting it on your seat and that is if you are someone that may be put off by the noise. From what I have read here over the years, what annoys one person may not be an issue at all for another and vice versa.

Its pretty easy to check that though. I am sure you can rig up something to hang it from the rear seatbelt holes and have it running while sitting in the seat. Not actually pulling on a belt, just to see which side of the fence you fall on - dont mind it or cant live with it.

You do want the belt high.. Doesnt matter how you achieve that, e.g. from the gbelt mounted on the seat or low with a tower. You just want the belt to be pulling you back rather than down over your shoulders.

I have tried a couple ways and IMO you do not need anything special. The first one I made I used CF tube with bearings inserted so it would roll easily. It worked fine.

It didnt work any better than what I have now which is a basic T, some 4040 going up with some 4040 horizontal on top and the belt slides across it. Bears, rollers are not necessary, the friction is far too low to be an issue for the forces we are using with our active belts.

Mine is like this, a couple bits of 4040 , 4 brackets and a brace. One 90 degree cut and one ~30 degree cut that can be done on a drop saw. Simple and far less time to make than putting together the P1

 

[Clover11]

I rock headphones and crank the tune while I race, so noise probably won't be noticed by me. I don't hear anything else.

I know the tower would not be complicated to build. It is more that I don't have a chop saw and would need to order everything to length. Anyone have a good supplier in the US for extrusion fasteners?

 

[RCHeliguy]

I rock headphones and crank the tune while I race, so noise probably won't be noticed by me. I don't hear anything else.

I know the tower would not be complicated to build. It is more that I don't have a chop saw and would need to order everything to length. Anyone have a good supplier in the US for extrusion fasteners?

I think so....
I could put you in touch with my supplier. The first few parts are free.