Sim Racing Accuracy

[RayDarcy]

Interesting topic came up today. Should elements of sim racing history such as racism, misogyny, tobacco advertising or other now-controversial ideas be used in historical mods to accurately reflect the times?

Are we ok with circuit videos of bikini pitbabes, Marlboro-adorned McLarens or maybe Nazi symbolism at the 1939 Deutschlandring?

Where do we draw the line?

 

[Benutzername]

Complete accurate representation. There is no line in my opinion.

It represents the past the way it was. History channels don't hide Nazi symbols aswell for example. Yeah, maybe a bit overdrawn but it represents the past like it was and that's how it should be.

My opinion.

Others?

 

[RayDarcy]

Thanks for your opinion B man. As an ex-smoker {the worst kind) I find the glut of cigarette advertising of the late 1980s, early 90s quite disgusting. Seems like all the famous liveries we loved were based on cigarette packets: rothmans, marlboro, camel, john player and more. It wouldn't take a genius to match these cigarettes to their cars. F1 was the last sport to endorse these companies, Ironic they turned to financial institutions and IT companies in the early 2000s, as if to turn their back on immoral advertising!

 

[Rupe Wilson]

Maybe in 30 years time we will look back at a McDonalds livery and say the same...

 

[Warren Dawes]

Maybe in 30 years time we will look back at a McDonalds livery and say the same...

Or in a few years, Coca Cola.

 

[Rupe Wilson]

Hi Warren, how are you doing mate.

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

Complete accurate representation. There is no line in my opinion.

It represents the past the way it was. History channels don't hide Nazi symbols aswell for example. Yeah, maybe a bit overdrawn but it represents the past like it was and that's how it should be.

My opinion.

Others?

Interestingly enough (and very frustrating), if you watch V8 SuperCars (or Virgin SuperCar Series or whatever it is called now), and they show clips from the old days. They are blurring out all tobacco ads on the cars. Which makes the Winfield Skyline look rather strange.

I am on personally against any kind of censoring, so I would rather see everything as they were. Even though an old "Nazi Track" would probably not be used for anything in online racing.

 

[Fat-Alfie]

Are we ok with circuit videos of bikini pitbabes, Marlboro-adorned McLarens or maybe Nazi symbolism at the 1939 Deutschlandring?

Where do we draw the line?

I would like to point out that my Deutschlandring track does not contain any Nazi symbolism!! All the flags on the pit straight represent countries, trackside graphics are purely commercial. I had plenty of opportunity to add Nazi symbolism if I had wanted to. I really don't appreciate ignorant comments like yours inferring that my work is in any way political

Just because you were stupid enough to get yourself addicted to tobacco, you honestly think that those logos should be removed from a game? I, myself, have a penchant for biscuits, so I INSIST that all food advertising be removed from all tracks (especially chocolate digestives).

Muppet

EDIT - Wait, here's a thought. Maybe we should ban any tracks that are located in the United States of America, as they clearly celebrate the atrocities carried out against the native Americans by the European immigrants. How can we possibly enjoy racing around any North American race track, knowing that millions of people were killed in that country?

 

[Kenny Paton]

Are we ok with circuit videos of bikini pitbabes, Marlboro-adorned McLarens or maybe Nazi symbolism at the 1939 Deutschlandring?
Where do we draw the line?

Read George Orwell's 1984 or study post WW2 Soviet attempts to airbrush history, and it seems to me the current trend emerging in our society will lead to a repeat of the abuses. You know "those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it"
On a practical note you have made a huge leap in what amounts to an accusation of political propaganda of a respected modder.
Not a good way to introduce yourself to this community.

 

[Rupe Wilson]

May i remind you all we have a report post button, Bottom left of every post,
If you feel you have been victimised, please use it and don't take it into your own hands.
We the staff will sort it out..
We don not stand for or allow verbal abuse from any member towards another.

 

[Fat-Alfie]

 

[Warren Dawes]

Interestingly enough (and very frustrating), if you watch V8 SuperCars (or Virgin SuperCar Series or whatever it is called now), and they show clips from the old days. They are blurring out all tobacco ads on the cars. Which makes the Winfield Skyline look rather strange.

Ole, it goes even further here in Oz. Every video you can purchase of historic motor racing (including the full Bathurst series) has all of the old cigarette logos blurred out. It looks terrible.
I'm a great collector of model cars including some classic Holdens and Fords from Bathurst history, and you can't buy them with the full (eg. Marlboro) logos on them, despite making them to very exacting detail. The silly part though, is there is a supplier of the decals for each of the "special" logos, so we all get these and apply them ourselves.
Of course, when visitors admire my collection at home, I don't hide those models. Does this make me a criminal??

I suppose the law makers are worried that if @Bram came to my house and saw my Marlboro Brock Torana, he would immediately have an uncontrollable desire to light up.

 

[Warren Dawes]

Hi Warren, how are you doing mate.

Hi Rupe, good to see you back on the mend again, and back simracing here.
I'm doing well, still visit RD regularly to keep up, but mostly only race off-line now. Probably the only way to still get my GTL fix.

 

[Edward Mowinckel]

Thanks for your opinion B man. As an ex-smoker {the worst kind) I find the glut of cigarette advertising of the late 1980s, early 90s quite disgusting. Seems like all the famous liveries we loved were based on cigarette packets: rothmans, marlboro, camel, john player and more. It wouldn't take a genius to match these cigarettes to their cars. F1 was the last sport to endorse these companies, Ironic they turned to financial institutions and IT companies in the early 2000s, as if to turn their back on immoral advertising!

I only recently stopped buying cigarettes, moved to the e-cigarette thing, and I agree about tobacco adverts being removed from racing, but not censoring the past. That's how it was, and that's a reminder to not do it again.

Smoking is a cultural thing, which is unfortunate. The cultural response to it has changed drastically, even in the past decade. A lot of that is just the dissemination of information. The world wide web showed up and the individual stories about smoking, and the wider of image what it costs became more common. As a whole, we're learning why we shouldn't smoke. We're getting better at it, slowly.

Grid girls is something I'm super okay with, so long as there's at least some representation of grid boys. I would like to see Formula 1, and hell all FIA events adopt a standard that says there's going to be a percentage of grid boys relative to female attendance and fanbase. It's only fair! If you refuse to employ grid boys, that's not fair, and if you only employ grid girls, that sets a precedent of fanbase, which for the growth of the sport we don't need.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

I suppose the law makers are worried that if @Bram came to my house and saw my Marlboro Brock Torana, he would immediately have an uncontrollable desire to light up

 

[Vapir]

Complete accurate representation. There is no line in my opinion.

It represents the past the way it was. History channels don't hide Nazi symbols aswell for example. Yeah, maybe a bit overdrawn but it represents the past like it was and that's how it should be.

My opinion.

Others?

This. Being German myself, I am sick and tired of censoring Nazi symbolism (Wolfenstein anyone?) or any censoring as a matter of fact. As if the symbols could do you any harm. It's the actual Nazis that were the problem.
Just show it the way it was.

Or in other words: Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

 

[RayDarcy]

I would like to point out that my Deutschlandring track does not contain any Nazi symbolism!!

I never said it did. I asked whether it should.

Muppet

And that's your response.

 

[RayDarcy]

I think it's a shame F1 particularly became the only sport (ok, along with snooker) who would be swamped with tobacco advertising in the 1980s/90s.

One could argue the move from cigarette companies to multinational banks such as HSBC and GE was no less immoral!

 

[RayDarcy]

This. Being German myself, I am sick and tired of censoring Nazi symbolism (Wolfenstein anyone?) or any censoring as a matter of fact. As if the symbols could do you any harm. It's the actual Nazis that were the problem.
Just show it the way it was.

Or in other words: Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

A lot of those symbols, such as the swastika and salute are still used by right wing groups in the US particularly. I think this is why it is still offensive. It is not history yet unfortunately.

 

[RayDarcy]

Ole, it goes even further here in Oz. Every video you can purchase of historic motor racing (including the full Bathurst series) has all of the old cigarette logos blurred out. It looks terrible.
I'm a great collector of model cars including some classic Holdens and Fords from Bathurst history, and you can't buy them with the full (eg. Marlboro) logos on them, despite making them to very exacting detail. The silly part though, is there is a supplier of the decals for each of the "special" logos, so we all get these and apply them ourselves.
Of course, when visitors admire my collection at home, I don't hide those models. Does this make me a criminal??

I suppose the law makers are worried that if @Bram came to my house and saw my Marlboro Brock Torana, he would immediately have an uncontrollable desire to light up.

I agree with you, cigarette ads never forced anyone to smoke, merely to choose a brand.

The TV companies are in an awkward position showing old footage, particularly if the brand is still being sold. Blurring the logo in my opinion draws more attention to it.

It's a tricky one.