Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[Mr Latte]

HELP REQUEST

Those of you that may have both SSW & Simvibe or are willing to do this quick test I would appreciate some confirmation regards the various most popular Sims.

Simple Test
I want to gain confirmation from each sim via both SSW and Simvibe which produces proper separation between the "front" and "rear" stereo channels. On some sims we may find that we get a MONO response from all 4 tactile units, even if only front or rear wheels are placed over a bump.

To do this you can simply test by doing the following:
Load preferred Sim with SSW or Simvibe active
Use Bump (Suspension In Simvibe) Effects Only

Have Front Stereo Amplifier Off
Have Rear Stereo Amplifier On
Drive "Front wheels Only" over bumps
Do you feel a tactile response for the front wheels in the rear?
Does it become active at higher speeds or on all bumps or only some bumps?

The opposite can be done for the Rear Stereo tactile

Have Rear Stereo Amplifier Off
Have Front Stereo Amplifier On
Drive "Rear Wheels Only" over bumps
Do you feel a tactile response for the rear wheels in the front?
Does it become active at higher speeds or on all bumps or only some bumps?

Take notes of what each sim does or with SSW and Simvibe.

My query is.........
Which combination of Sims & Tactile Software brings proper front/back stereo separation with bump based effects?

Appreciate any help as I currently only test with AC
Any that help will get a free SSW profile based on my latest testing with my 2018 "NERO" effects.

 

[Johnny Carr59]

Work reared its ugly head and I have to labour until Wednesday.I will test this out sometime after then and report back here.

 

[Hiro Abe]

I built my first rig out of 3/4" ply and used Auras and two smaller Dayton Audio shakers to implement tactile feedback. I drove them with budget amps and used SimVibe to control everything in Chassis Mode. I spent a fair amount of time playing around with SimVibe's numerous settings and achieved a satisfactory level of feedback.

Then I built my 8020 rig and discovered that the same setup did not work as well. I also noticed that some of the feedback I was getting from my CSW transmitted throughout my rig in a satisfying way and found myself not missing the shakers all that much so I kind of gave up on them. I even sold off most of my original setup.

After discovering the breadth of info available here within RD's forums my curiousity has been reignited so I decided to revisit tactile immersion. I figured with the added rigidity and weight of my new 8020 rig I needed to up the game. I purchased an LFE and an NU3000DSP (should be receiving this tomorrow) to drive it along with a left over TST209. I mounted the LFE under my seat and my plan is to primarily use it for bumps and road texture. The TST is going to be for engine vibration and I have it mounted to my pedal mount. (pics below)

My plan is to see how well I can get this setup working and if I really respond to this added dimension of immersion before expanding any further. I haven't implemented any level of isolation at this point. I'm first looking to see how well my current implementation responds before I start going into full blown experimentation mode.

LFE mounted under seat

TST bolted to pedal frame.

 

[Hiro Abe]

I've always used SimVibe but I do like the simplicity and flexibility of SSW. Once I have my DSP amp, I'll try it out with the LFE. If I like it, I'll purchase SSW.

One question: SSW has 6 base folders representing each surround channel. In each folder there are sample sound files for each effect. To have the bumps go to my LFE and engine beat to the TST, I'm thinking I take the front stereo feed from sound card and plug left/right into channel A/B into the DSP amp. If channel A out goes to my LFE, do I just have the bump sample in the front left base folder and the engine beat sample in the front right base folder for the TST feed from channel B? I don't see a way of controlling which channel receives which effect via the UI.

 

[Mr Latte]

I've always used SimVibe but I do like the simplicity and flexibility of SSW. Once I have my DSP amp, I'll try it out with the LFE. If I like it, I'll purchase SSW.

One question: SSW has 6 base folders representing each surround channel. In each folder there are sample sound files for each effect. To have the bumps go to my LFE and engine beat to the TST, I'm thinking I take the front stereo feed from sound card and plug left/right into channel A/B into the DSP amp. If channel A out goes to my LFE, do I just have the bump sample in the front left base folder and the engine beat sample in the front right base folder for the TST feed from channel B? I don't see a way of controlling which channel receives which effect via the UI.

For SSW the folders represent the configuration the user is using.

Eg:
Folder 1 files for 1 tactile unit
Folder 6 files for 6 tactile unit mode

You will see numbered files for the individual effects
For creating or placing effects, this is done with separate software called Audacity.

On the SSW launcher click the "User Guide" tab and it will give you info on this.
SSW works with .wav files. People can create their own effects with some experience and testing...

Few it seems have bothered to build their own effects but maybe in time more people will.
I put in 6 months of my own time researching and testing effects I created.

Im, taking a step back from it and the forums, to focus more on my own build.

 

[Hiro Abe]

Im, taking a step back from it and the forums, to focus more on my own build.

Considering the volume of info you've provided this community I can certainly understand. Your posts have certainly been part of my inspiration to give this another go. Especially your experimentation with custom SSW files. I can see myself going down the same road.

I found my lower end TST is not so great with lower frequencies (which, I believe, you've reported in other posts) which is why I plan to use mine just for engine feedback. I'm looking to dial in a somewhat subtle effect. I see no need to shake the dickens out of my pedals. I figured I would edit out below 50Hz or so range going to the TST. Looking forward to experimenting with it.

 

[Johnny Carr59]

For this test would I use simvibe chassis mode or extension mode?

With SSW do I run just bumps and buffets while turning off the amps for the front and seat shakers?

 

[Mr Latte]

For this test would I use simvibe chassis mode or extension mode?

With SSW do I run just bumps and buffets while turning off the amps for the front and seat shakers?

EM mode is mono only
So I believe CM in Simvibe is needed.

Yes in both just the bump effects or "Suspension bumps" in Simvibe


I appreciate the feedback and time put into it.

 

[Johnny Carr59]

As promised here is my attempt at the test you requested Mr Latte.You don't owe me anything as you've done enough for the tactile community already.In time I would be interested in reading the pending thread on Inuke amps and DSP as it's still all a little overwhelming.I haven't blown anything up yet thankfully lol.

In Simbive settings G-Seat back and bottom are off.Extension mode seat and pedals are off.In chassis mode I turned off all effects including road bumps except for front and rear suspension bumps and front and rear suspension bump surges.

I opened iRacing through SimCommander then chose the skip barber formula 2000 as the car and Watkins Glen Cup as the track.First I turned on the amp powering the rear shakers and went out onto the track turning a few laps trying to drive over curbs with the front wheels only.I ended up at turn one perpendicular to the large curb there.

I was getting confusing results with the rear wheels still on the track as I tried to drive the front wheels over the curb so I turned around and backed onto the grass over the curb still perpendicular to the curb.The grass seemed smooth and I felt no vibrations as I slowly approached the curb braking right after the front wheels went over the curb stopping with the rear wheels still on the grass.I did this at least 10 times and not once did I feel and sensation in the rear shakers during this process.

I then I turned off the rear amp and turned on the amp powering the front shakers then drove over the curb in turn one still perpendicular to the curb but this time with the rear wheels of the car closest to the curb.I was able to recenter the oculus rift so I was looking backwards at the curb then performed the same test numerous times,driving over the curb with the rear wheels and stopping before the front wheels made contact with the curb.I felt no tactile feed back from the rear wheels with the front shakers.

Then I closed Simcommander and opened SSW.I turned off all effects except bumps and buffets and as it turns out tires locked in advanced options that I hadn't noticed until after.Then I opened iRacing from the shortcut on my desktop avoiding simcommander.

Again I took the skippy to Watkins glen and with only the rear shakers operating I started driving around the track to get to turn one which is situated before pit exit.I was trying to drive over curbing with the front wheel only again which was futile but did notice this.There was hardly any feed back whatsoever in the rear shakers when the rear wheels went over curbs and rumble strips.I would get the occasional bump if I hit a curb hard but other than that there was nothing.I arrived at turn one and performed all the same tests as I did with Simvibe.The feedback if any was so low that I ended up turning the amp up almost all the way and the gain slider for bumps in SSW at 100%.Another problem that I was having is that SSW wasn't giving a lot of curb feedback but driving on the grass did.A lot.

I closed out Watkins Glen and went to Spa.Again I drove around the track looking for adequate curbing to perform the test and even tho I was driving with both side wheels on rumble strips and could visibly see the front tire bouncing as I assume the rears where there was still no feed back until I drove on the grass.I would need to hit a higher curb fairly hard to register an effect.

The last chicane at Spa just before the start/finish line there is a massive curb with asphalt on both sides.I played around there for 20 minutes alternating between rear amp and front amp trying to get a good sense for what is going on.It's my opinion that with SSW I was not feeling front bumps on rear shakers nor was I feeling rear bumps on the front shakers.I had to hit the curb quite hard to feel anything.

Then I turned on both front and rear amps and drove haphazardly around spa driving over curbs,grass and anything else I could find.SSW does a great job of feedback while driving on the grass but rumble strips and lower curbs I got only slight feedback if I hit a curb or bump at speed and it seemed to be delayed about 1 second.

I am a novice at this.I'm not sure if I'm running the amps properly and know nothing of SSW and it's potential.This is all out of the box,no audio files or other enhancements.I invite someone else to do the SSW test in iRacing and see if I'm mistaken.

 

[Mr Latte]

Thanks for doing that test and coming back with plenty of info.

I dont use i-racing but your not the first to mention that its bumps seem to work less well or with less strength. What I would ask, is when you did the above test what setting in SSW was your bumps and threshold % set to?

We could look to have the "effect" for bumps amplitude increased but this then may still cause the issue you mention with grass already feeling strong but some bumps not.

All we can do is use the threshold to see if it helps reduce the grass and improve the curb bump and perhaps later trying a new bump .wav effect with its amplitude at max.

SSW may use a different method for using i-racings "telemetry data" for its bumps to other sims. However you clearly raise another issue with SSW and i-racing as one of the more premium sim titles on the market.

Think it needs more in-depth look and responses form others but the "SSW log data" will illustrate what values "grass" or "curbs" are generating. Therefore what strength each "scenario" is outputting.


Try to increase the threshold to 80-90, that should reduce the grass and then increase the gain for the bump effect. It may reduce the level of activity on grass and general bumps but give better bump sensation with some curbs.

 

[vertew]

Hi - thought I'd share some experience of my new rig ...

I've just finished setting up my first tactile immersion rig and after remarkably little hassle, I've had my first successful drives - and wow - think it really does add a new level of immersion and excitement! It's pretty much as I expected, with road vibrations and kerbs being felt strongly. What I didn't expect (and is really nice) is engine vibrations, so sitting on the starting grid, motor running, my seat is properly shaking sympathy with RPM (which of course goes up and down with throttle). Really cool. What is almost even more apparent is going back to a game without the TI and noticing how flat/dead the experience then seems.

Anyway here's a bit more of the background …

I've got a Caterham CSR260 which is great fun, but (a) the weather is pants in England a lot of the time which isn't so great for Caterhams and (b) I only rarely manage a track day … hence my interest in sim racing.

My rig is:

• Vive headset
• GT Omega seat rig
• Logitech G27 wheel / gear leaver / pedals
• PC (i7 4770k and GTX 1080)
• Project Cars 2 (usually)

This setup was good with Project Cars, but is now much better since Project Cars 2 with the optimised graphics and improved frame-rate / smoothness.

My first foray into tactile was this year with a Buttkicker Gamer 2 mounted to a post below my rig seat. It worked pretty well, but I found I had to have the gain turned up too high to get strong enough vibration which caused the unit to keep overheating and cutting out. I sent it back, but had learned that tactile was something worth pursuing …

I did a lot more research (loads of info and inspiration from this forum) and ended up with:

• 2 x Buttkicker BK4-4 Advance (mounted directly to seat frame, one on each side)
• NU1000DSP Inuke amp
• 6 x RI-4 isolating feet
• Sim Commander 4

The BK4-4 Advance is at the more serious end of the branded transducers and pretty pricey especially in UK with our screwed exchange rate. Given that I already knew I was serious about tactile, my thinking was: better to go higher-end rather than upgrade.

I had a couple of minor issues getting everything working. Initially, PC2 seemed to be sending no signal to SC4. SC4 was working ok, as I could send test tones successfully. Random fiddling seemed to sort this out.

The only other issue I had was not being able to start PC2 (Steam install) in Vive VR mode from SC4. I had to start the game in VR mode from Steam, then quickly double-click to start SC4. I never did find precisely the right answer online, but a good guess had it working --- there's info about how to start an Oculus VR config from SC4 with parameters 'steam://launch/378860/othervr -silent', but not Vive. For Vive, you just replace 'parameters' with 'steam://launch/378860/vr -silent' which seems to work fine for me.

So I've got a working setup, that's configured with mostly default settings. I should spend some time now actually driving the thing + also tweaking stuff. But as mentioned above, it seems to work very nicely now. I'll have a look at the iNuke amp settings … I've turned most enhancements off (such as para eq). If anyone has any iNuke settings, would be good to hear. Likewise on SC4/SimVive, I've got 'seat' and 'chassis' selected and left everything else to defaults.

In future years, I might add another couple of BK4-4 (+amp) at the front to get a full 4 corner setup. But, I'd have to be really convinced that the game is actually sending accurate data to all four corners … otherwise it would be a very expensive solution for a 'mono' experience! I might look at upgrading my G27 at some point, but that looks like another minefield with 4-figure costs.

Thanks again this forum + Mr Latte for starting up this thread and to all for sharing your experiences, which persuaded me to have a go. Cheers!

 

[Mike McCormick]

Johnny you have something set up wrong as I have only raced the Skippy in iRacing since 2010 and I have no problem feeling bumps in chassis mode front and rear and side by side. Just remember some of the curbs are smooth and some aren't, just like in real life. I also feel the dirt and grass. I have to turn down the bumps and other road effects in Sim Commander as it would shake my rig apart. I'm running 4 Aura's powered by an Adcom GFA 2535 4 channel amp. I have a 80/20 setup with an AccuForce. View attachment 239621

 

[signman]

I have to turn effect down in iracing !

 

[Mr Latte]

I have to turn effect down in iracing !

Hold a sec havnt you recently stated i-racing doesn't work so good in SSW.
Now I'm confused....

Suggestion to all interested:

More details folks on your own experiences please...
It might be best if you guys choose and agree to test the same specific car and track and then discuss particular effects or track elements. Sharing if "SSW" or "Simvibe" is operating and what settings or hardware is being used.

Different cars or even car setups could alter the telemetry values, which in turn will alter the amplitude for the effect and its potential feeling when being generated.

Im keen to sit back and learn of peoples own opinions regards comparisons of SSW and Simvibe with each specific sim. Which supports proper front/back bumps is important to help determine which Sims can potentially give the best tactile feedback for handling and "what the car is doing".

 

[Mr Latte]

Another issue Michal brought up in the SSW thread regards "Shifting" Can someone confirm please how this relates between SSW and SV ....

What sims with manual gears give a response for "N" and then also the "Gear" = 2 activations per gear change?

Some sims I assume will only activate with each "Gear" but no response with "N"?

 

[signman]

Hold a sec havnt you recently stated i-racing doesn't work so good in SSW.
Now I'm confused....

Suggestion to all interested:

More details folks on your own experiences please...
It might be best if you guys choose and agree to test the same specific car and track and then discuss particular effects or track elements. Sharing if "SSW" or "Simvibe" is operating and what settings or hardware is being used.

Different cars or even car setups could alter the telemetry values, which in turn will alter the amplitude for the effect and its potential feeling when being generated.

Im keen to sit back and learn of peoples own opinions regards comparisons of SSW and Simvibe with each specific sim.

Yes sure have... NOT AS MUCH 'DETAIL' though.
It's plenty strong enough..I personally just feel in general ffb is better in AC as is curb detail.

I'm still feeling bumps, curb's OK.
Have nice decel now too and lateral in the corner's.

Hit the grass and your going to know about it on any track unless it's like a putting green.
My LFE is doing a fabulous job.

I've spent some considerable time dialing in each specific car though.
What works in AC does not work in iracing for me ..

I'm going to try Simvibe soon and compare for myself.

 

[Mr Latte]

Let us know how it goes for you.....

I have a planned idea for the future with my own rig.
To mix "Quadraphonic Audio Tactile" with "SSW" on the main 4 channels.
This works great when we boost the audio and control it with improved EQ as you know...

Then with Center & Sub channels use these to mix SSW (Engine, Acceleration, Deceleration) effects with Simvibe (Roadbumps, Road Textures) as EM for the seat and pedals.

Helps split what effects are on specific channels and keeps directional effects on the outer 4 (CM) with mono operating effects on the front/back central units.

It may be the best fix regards the current limitation with SSW bumps to help bring improved road surface detail yet maintain hi-quality stereo bumps from the Audio and SSW combo.

 

[Johnny Carr59]

Im sorry Mr Lattte I thought I had replied to your earlier comment you left after my test post.The SSW gain was set to 100% and threshold was untouched.

I dont have time right now to go over everything I stated in the post regarding testing SSW and SV.I will need to later I suppose to correct anything I said by mistake that is confusing people.

With iRacing I felt all the bumps when I drove over them.It was with SSW that I had trouble feeling curb bumps.

I will go one farther to say that Im not impressed with SSW when compared to SV.As a matter of fact I've not used SSW since the test.SSW is great for telling me that Im driving on the grass but not so great at telling my Ive just driven over a curb.

My SSW tests were all done with stock configuration as was SV.I have been sent a link for custom files to use with SSW but have not found the time to figure out where they go and then try them.

 

[Mr Latte]

Im sorry Mr Lattte I thought I had replied to your earlier comment you left after my test post.The SSW gain was set to 100% and threshold was untouched.

I dont have time right now to go over everything I stated in the post regarding testing SSW and SV.I will need to later I suppose to correct anything I said by mistake that is confusing people.

With iRacing I felt all the bumps when I drove over them.It was with SSW that I had trouble feeling curb bumps.

I will go one farther to say that Im not impressed with SSW when compared to SV.As a matter of fact I've not used SSW since the test.SSW is great for telling me that Im driving on the grass but not so great at telling my Ive just driven over a curb.

My SSW tests were all done with stock configuration as was SV.I have been sent a link for custom files to use with SSW but have not found the time to figure out where they go and then try them.

Using stock settings and with stock files aren't going to help. The link sent to you even contained images showing the location to place files. As they are for a 6 channel config. So we place them in the customizable, folder 6 location.

If you get those working and still feel the bumps are not good in i-racing with the recommendations above then the best thing you can do is report in the SSW thread your own disappointment with i-racings bumps.

I mainly use Assetto Corsa and that's what I've developed my own files with. Performance, in general, is very good with Assetto Corsa. For me in this sim, it is much better than SV as it brings more feel to what the car's handling is doing.

For other sims its hard to find much information on how SSW performs with them. Not many people really bothering to share such with the community. So I have no real idea. Just look at the views this thread gets but the lack of input or support from simple questions I myself posted.

I tried to get some conversation going on it here regards the operation of bumps but really its doubtful much will happen and I'm scunnered to death with all this at present.

My focus now, is on my own build for the short-term future.
So much less time will be spent on the forums.

 

[signman]

Just jumped out the Nissan GTP in iracing.
Driven both Summit Point and Oulton Park.

Bump's and curb's are feeling great for me.
I've driven Oulton IRL many times too.

Think you need to check your hard wear .
I also remember using SSW default and could feel bumps and curbs great in the Vette.

Never tried SV on my rig but have on a couple of other different rig's.

It's very disappointing the response from other SSW users's on here.
They seem to get their file's and run for the hill's ;-(