Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[Mr Latte]

Thanks, I will try this. This should help with Amp not outputting that much power (lower number of active LEDs when boosting it over Gain instead of turning the knob more to the right)?

Main factors seem to be:

1. Source output level (from source output / soundcard)
2. Input Stage via input level (pre-amp stage) - iNuke knobs (balance input levels for different sources)
3. Output Stage via gain level for amplification (iNuke Crossover section)

The lights I believe may react based on the combination for the 3 above, tbh I don't pay much attention to them as usually set a volume and leave it. I do have some amp presets to help preference/performance for the different tactile. Also for different sources/uses like music and another set for late night usage. This reduces the output to previously calibrated settings some time would of been set in doing.

Tend to find I play around with SSW slider settings more and not mess about with the amps when set to a level or using DSP I want/like.

 

[Michal Burisin]

Main factors seem to be:

1. Source output level (from source output / soundcard)
2. Input Stage via input level (pre-amp stage) - iNuke knobs (balance input levels for different sources)
3. Output Stage via gain level for amplification (iNuke Crossover section)

The lights I believe may react based on the combination for the 3 above, tbh I don't pay much attention to them as usually set a volume and leave it. I do have some amp presets to help preference/performance for the different tactile. Also for different sources/uses like music and another set for late night usage. This reduces the output to previously calibrated settings some time would of been set in doing.

Tend to find I play around with SSW slider settings more and not mess about with the amps when set to a level or using DSP I want/like.

I just got BK Concert delivered, crazy amount of power

Also in the manual for BK concert, there's optimal settings for the 3 stages of signal:

1. preamp -10 dB
2. level converter -10 dB in and +4 dB out
3. power Amp +4 dB

I think I haven't seen such detailed settings for BK Advance.

However I just plugged it in without these setting and it worked fine As you write it's probably not as necessary to fine tune this and just use knobs.

And for night mode etc. it might be easiest to use volume control on soundcard, but it won't allow for such fine control. Switching several amps to different profile might take little longer, but probably not that much once you get used to DSP button controls directly on the amp.

 

[Mr Latte]

I just got BK Concert delivered, crazy amount of power

Also in the manual for BK concert, there's optimal settings for the 3 stages of signal:

1. preamp -10 dB
2. level converter -10 dB in and +4 dB out
3. power Amp +4 dB

I think I haven't seen such detailed settings for BK Advance.

However I just plugged it in without these setting and it worked fine As you write it's probably not as necessary to fine tune this and just use knobs.

And for night mode etc. it might be easiest to use volume control on soundcard, but it won't allow for such fine control. Switching several amps to different profile might take little longer, but probably not that much once you get used to DSP button controls directly on the amp.

I've been playing about with a really nice .wav for deceleration and acceleration that has wicked amount of bass on these bigger devices. You get a really excellent sense of depth and wave of power. Also have a very thick/heavy energy sensation for Lateral G that feels great on corners or with using two bigger units in stereo gives excellent switch over for left/right steering input and g-forces.

Still to tune and properly get to experience my BK Concert but yeah seems to be a great unit.
Now you get an idea how it compares to an Advance or small units like TST for true low frequency bass energy.

I need to get my finger out and consider doing this new SSW effects thread....
Some active members have sold and others expanding their tactile, so waiting a bit and getting more feedback on properly setting up effects for 1-6 channel configs.

Midgnight Mode
This isn't like turning volume down, as that reduces the dB equally across the whole dynamic range being used. What I did for this was to have specific PEQ used to give a milder but still enjoyable tactile experience. Basically controlling the strength of certain frequencies in how much or in what way they are restrained but still limiting the general output.

You can select/load (user presets) via the front panel controls without having to connect USB for each amp.

There should be a thread covering all the iNuke features in detail and help those that own them but I just haven't got around to it. Lots of people have these amps and do NOT use many of the features, likely as it confuses people or they feel little benefit in using what it offers.

Have fun playing around, think you will really enjoy the effects coming.

 

[Mr Latte]

Ok gents, small update on the SSW effects that are done and will be looked at in depth in the upcoming thread...

I have new waveform characters/sensations for most effects now ready but need beta tested to help determine how they operate on different units. @Michal Burisin , @Hiro Abe , @sparrowz see recent PM with a link to download a (beta set) for 2 channel "Front & Back " configuration files.

Unique Sensations:

• Lateral G
• Deceleration
• Acceleration
• Wheelslip

These will produce their own individual sensations. Not using repeated tones or waveforms like default effect files have.


Improved Feedback:

• Road Bumps
• Road Surface

Smooth Shift:

• New gearshift effect

Anyone else interested in trying and giving feedback with a two-channel Front/Back configuration please PM me. I can also create a batch to suit whatever configuration you have.

For testing references and feedback, stick with AC using mainly GT3 based cars

 

[scottiedawg66]

Pm sent

 

[Hiro Abe]

The following is only after 15 laps - 11 at Spa and 4 at Silverstone split between the Audi LMG and Merc AMG. Within my DSP, I have the peak limiter set for my ADX and crossover set to drop off at 100 Hz and 120 Hz for my LFE and ADX respectively (Butterworth / 48 dB). Volume on both channels is set at 2:00. This is through the 3000DSP, btw.

Basically, really enjoying all effects with the following call outs:

• Lateral G - kind of strange since the lefts I feel at the back and the rights at the front (or vice versa, not remembering now). I can imagine this would be an awesome effect if I had a L/R set up. So I turned this off and kept to the longitudinal accel/decel effects.
• Accel/Decel - really nice. Love how the effects are split between back/front accordingly. Impressed on how the level of impact of the effect coincided with how hard the accel/decel. Sweet.
• Wheelslip - continues to be a fav. I'm not detecting a real difference between this latest version vs the one you provided awhile ago but that may just be due to my just resolved SSW issue that I haven't been using it much till now.
• Road Bumps - love what I feel but seemed to be lacking in energy/volume. The best way I can explain it is that all of the other effects are set at a gain of 80% or less (depending on the effect). With Road Bumps, I'm at 100% wanting a bit more.
• Road Surface - I have yet to get this to work for me whether using the stock waveform or yours. I turn off all the other effects, only have Road Surface on at 100% gain and feel absolutely nothing. Still scratching my head over this one.
• Gear Shift - I've never been that "into" this effect whether it be with SSW or SimVibe but your implementation of it is the best I've experienced. It's not a big hit which I don't think it should be but has enough presence to let you know even when all of the other effects are going.

So, with absolutely zero surprise, you've done a masterful job Rod!

I would like to get the Road Surface issue sorted. I know there was one other user who had the exact same problem and posted in Andre's support thread. Didn't get anywhere but going to try again.

Will do some more testing on different tracks trying other GT3 cars and report back. I noticed that I did feel bumps a bit more pronounced in the Merc.

I do believe this level of quality feedback will make me a better driver... because I'm enjoying the feel so much I don't want to stop doing laps!!

 

[Mr Latte]

The following is only after 15 laps - 11 at Spa and 4 at Silverstone split between the Audi LMG and Merc AMG. Within my DSP, I have the peak limiter set for my ADX and crossover set to drop off at 100 Hz and 120 Hz for my LFE and ADX respectively (Butterworth / 48 dB). Volume on both channels is set at 2:00. This is through the 3000DSP, btw.

Basically, really enjoying all effects with the following call outs:

• Lateral G - kind of strange since the lefts I feel at the back and the rights at the front (or vice versa, not remembering now). I can imagine this would be an awesome effect if I had a L/R set up. So I turned this off and kept to the longitudinal accel/decel effects.

This is odd as I placed the waveform on channel 1&2 for both "left" and "Right" effects.
I only have my rear units connected at present but when I applied this to check I get activity in both for "left" & "right" steering as expected. Can you check you have placed in the latest files, not the previous ones that had this issue?

I would like to get the Road Surface issue sorted. I know there was one other user who had the exact same problem and posted in Andre's support thread. Didn't get anywhere but going to try again.

Will do some more testing on different tracks trying other GT3 cars and report back. I noticed that I did feel bumps a bit more pronounced in the Merc.

I do believe this level of quality feedback will make me a better driver... because I'm enjoying the feel so much I don't want to stop doing laps!!

Not sure what your issue is here, at all for road surface.
We need to look further into this and find the problem.
Did you try removing all "custom file folders" and let SSW revert back to "base" files.
Also re-check Bass Shaker and select 2 channel to have SSW fully reset.
Then see if this effect is active with the base files.



At the moment with this new set Im just trying to get nice sensations for the effect and have ones that work well together. Also ensure we have each channel working correctly for the config you have for instance and others. Volume issues noted and its being dealt with.

When I create all the new variants of these effects. Basically, it will let people have sets with higher and lower volumes to better suit their own tactile and configuration or preferences. Also within the (A-E) solution bringing 5 options to choose from for the effect. These using typically 10% and 20% increase/decrease in the frequencies contained for the effect.

What a user will find and an issue Simvibe does not resolve or do anything to help is that certain units work best with specific Hz at specific volumes. When we go too high in gain for a particular frequency range it can feel bad or discomforting, certainly not enjoyable. Yet a user can maybe find they prefer to use a higher gain with a (lower frequency set). Personal preference and rig installation are all part of the factors too. Also what settings in SSW they may want to use.

For instance what happens when we use a "higher volume set" of effects but with lower gain used in SSW slider controls. Or for example, what happens when we use 100% SSW slider control but a "lower volume set" of effects. This is one thing that will be looked at in more depth in the coming thread but their is a reason with some effects in SSW I see that we certainly may want to use higher % or upto 100% gain control.

So I have created options for people to easily compare and find what Hz and volume suit them for each individual effect.

Effect Frequency Shift
Example:

If I do say so, it is rather genius to have this and be able to let people for each effect find and use a set that best works on their hardware or preference. This will let people, find a set that best matches their hardware choosing whatever strength/volume or frequencies being used just feels good. No messing around trying to create or find tones or use sliders in Simvibe that they do not fully understand what they do.

This will be simple, pre-created effects, mix n match then use the SSW sliders to tweak.
Find your feel you like with 5 options:

• C= Standard
• A = 20% higher frequencies
• B = 10% higher frequencies
• D = 10% lower frequencies
• E = 20% lower frequencies

In the coming thread, I want to go into detail on each effect and how/what it reacts with the SSW controls each has. It should be interesting and a step to help beginners and advanced users seek to use SSW or better enjoy their tactile from it....

 

[Hiro Abe]

In regards to the lacking Road Surface effect: I tried PC2 and I can feel it. Again, had all other effects turned off and Road Surface on and could definitely feel it. I'll try some other sims as well but atm, it is not working in AC.

In AC, I did 15 laps in the RSR at Road America. I had Engine Beat, Gear Shift, Road Bumps, Accel/Decel and Wheel Slip on. Really enjoyed it though Gear Shift was getting a bit lost in all of the effects going. I bumped up the gain on my LFE via my DSP by 3 dB and that brought out the Road Bumps more. With my ADX right under my heels, I could feel some nice subtle bumps. Had a blast. I'll get back to some more critical testing but this morning's hot lapping was a ton of fun!

 

[Mr Latte]

In regards to the lacking Road Surface effect: I tried PC2 and I can feel it. Again, had all other effects turned off and Road Surface on and could definitely feel it. I'll try some other sims as well but atm, it is not working in AC.

In AC, I did 15 laps in the RSR at Road America. I had Engine Beat, Gear Shift, Road Bumps, Accel/Decel and Wheel Slip on. Really enjoyed it though Gear Shift was getting a bit lost in all of the effects going. I bumped up the gain on my LFE via my DSP by 3 dB and that brought out the Road Bumps more. With my ADX right under my heels, I could feel some nice subtle bumps. Had a blast. I'll get back to some more critical testing but this morning's hot lapping was a ton of fun!

Thanks for feedback, good to hear your starting to get some nice sensations...

Previously I've had a scenario that I lost all the bottom effects working in AC
Cant explain what it was, but think it may have been car folder related and SSW just getting mixed up with all the changes I was doing. I don't know what exactly fixed it as I took SSW back to default (base) files, deleted all the car folders and reset the settings/soundcard then rebooted.

Have been testing with my TST on seat only and the differences between these and the BK LFE are like worlds apart. Using .wav and settings especially with Lat G, Deceleration and Acceleration (all using very low Hz). With the LFE I have quite crazy energy yet not much feeling at all with the TST regards energy.

I need to alter the .wav amplitude by 15-20dB for the TST to have decent energy but its nothing resembling the immersion and increased sensation of realism with heavy low frequencies that the BK LFE is outputting. It highlights to me just how much we need to shift the Hz for the effect and increase the gain for very different tactile units.

Gearshift indeed needs to be balanced with a suitable amplitude and then using the SSW control to suit. One point to raise here is that you can see often I have conversations regards placing a TST unit on the seat/back/spine region if possible or in some place on the seat. This unit can then be used mainly highlight engine RPM and gear change purposes. In doing this we can help to get around an effect getting lost amongst others or then being too punchy when others are not so active. Using body regions and in this case a unit for specific purpose(s) has worked well for me.

Regards AC different cars can have weaker/stronger feedback for the gear change. Other effects too may vary but this is why I harped on so much about building presets and saving them for individual car profiles.
It can be done and work well from trials I have been doing.

Acceleration:

Notice max pedal depression for throttle and Hz being used. Focus for the .wav used is placed on some of low Hz but trimming down the very lowest on purpose.

Deceleration/Braking:

Notice max pedal depression for brake and Hz being used, this time we see with this effects .wav I am using the very lowest Hz and maximising them. In doing this the strongest tactile like the BK LFE can bring very hard/deep braking sensation and sense of g-force energy. The smaller units do not get close to this sensation.

Creating and using these (A-E) sets I mention. In shifting the Hz 20% higher (more is possible) would then bring the effect into frequencies that the more common tactile would produce better with their own peak output @40Hz. The user could also have the effect using +1dB or say +3dB and just peak at 0dB but we do have to be wary of clipping.


Note: SSW slider gain control 0-100% has a bearing on the operation of these effects and not just solely making the sensation of them stronger/weaker.

 

[scottiedawg66]

well I am very new to the tactile feedback world but your recent wav files are AWESOME. I would say that the biggest improvements that I noticed was 2 things. 1. each different effect felt unique 2. I was better able to tell when the front or rear end was slipping. It seemed to me like the front end slips had higher hz than the rear slips, but not sure if that was due to the settings on my amp. I tuned my inuke 1000 to have added DB on the rear channel for 20, 40, 80 hz (ramping down) and slightly boosted the 80hz range on the front channel.

I have 3 lowly Aura Pro shakers, 1 inside the center of my aluminum pedal box and 1 on each side of the back end of my rig where my seat is mounted. I included my adjustments in SSW below. I was really focused on feeling wheel slip and road surface hence my settings.

Thanks for all the hard work on these files, they are a big improvement! I look forward to testing more of your work.

 

[Mr Latte]

@scottiedawg66 comments and feedback appreciated.

Can you try the beta version with added "Road Surface" (bottom of this page). I think its working rather well but then use "Bumps" for larger/harder sensation and with a high threshold (user pref).

Did notice that you are using Stereo 2.0 mode. Can I query how you have wired your 3 units for stereo in seat yet one unit in pedals?

I ask as its possible for us to do a proper 3 independent channel configuration, even though SSW does not offer the selection of such.

We can do this, by using the (additional purchase add on) for 6 channel mode. Then can create .wav in Audacity using 3 active channels (from the 6) enabling proper stereo in the seat and giving a dedicated mono channel for the pedals.

I am opting to follow a 5.1 type configuration so the top central unit is using the "CENTRE" channel (orange) from the soundcard. For placing stereo in the seat you would use (green) for "FRONT STEREO" left/right channels.

Later I will create and share (A-E) variants of these to enable you to get even better or more personalised feel from the waveforms of each effect.

 

[scottiedawg66]

Sadly 1 only have 1 amp, so i run channel A to the front and channel B to the rears which limits my options. I will give the beta a try

 

[Hiro Abe]

So, good news/bad news...

Good news is I was able to resolve my lack of Road Surface effect issue. I deleted all of my user specific xml and cfg files and next time I started up SSW, the effect is now present. Really enjoying it, btw!

The bad news: For some reason the accel/decel custom feedbacks have been reduced to barely perceptible levels (this was happening before the aforementioned fix for Road Surface and continues to happen after). If I crank both effects to 100% gain, I can feel it slightly. If I remove all the custom files and run from stock SSW, I feel them fine. The weird thing, I was feeling the custom accel/decel effects fine as I had reported in my earlier posts and that was set to about 30% gain. I tested this with the Z4, LMS and RSR with the same results across all 3 cars. Weird.

All other custom effects continue to work fine.

 

[Mr Latte]

So, good news/bad news...

Good news is I was able to resolve my lack of Road Surface effect issue. I deleted all of my user specific xml and cfg files and next time I started up SSW, the effect is now present. Really enjoying it, btw!

The bad news: For some reason the accel/decel custom feedbacks have been reduced to barely perceptible levels (this was happening before the aforementioned fix for Road Surface and continues to happen after). If I crank both effects to 100% gain, I can feel it slightly. If I remove all the custom files and run from stock SSW, I feel them fine. The weird thing, I was feeling the custom accel/decel effects fine as I had reported in my earlier posts and that was set to about 30% gain. I tested this with the Z4, LMS and RSR with the same results across all 3 cars. Weird.

All other custom effects continue to work fine.

Good you got it sorted, your current issue I think may just be you need more amplitude for the wav regards the effects you say you cannot feel properly. I dont think its an SSW issue.

Open the default file for the effect numbers you refer to and take a screenshot of the .wav from Audacity.
Now do this for the current custom .wav of the same effect your using and cannot feel.

Send me the details via PM and I will look at sending you adjusted files with increased gain.
I have been busy today improving some effects and learning some more useful tricks. However will get around to making and sharing full (A-E) variants and with various levels of amplitude/volume.

 

[dwightyone]

Hi,

I've bought SSW and am happy with it. I'm wondering if anyone knows whether I can bridge the output channels on the back of my cheap amp to give it double power and then connect it to my single bass shaker. My bass shaker is 4ohm and 100watts with 200 watts short burst. My amp is 4ohm-8ohm and has 2 channels with each one 30 rms. My amp also has a separate bass output of 35 rms but I'm thinking bridging the other 2 main channels on the amp will give me more power. I don't know if the amp is internally bridged and I only want to use it for SSW.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hi-Fi-Audi...pd_rd_wg=D5xVq&psc=1&refRID=PJG3KBTS88TC70XDG

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sinustec-1...F8&qid=1524506601&sr=8-5&keywords=Body+shaker

If anyone knows whether this is possible or not I'd be grateful if you could pass on any knowledge - or an opinion... Thanks!

 

[Mr Latte]

Keep in mind tactile is very demanding on amps, I wouldn't put any extra strain on that amp you have. Rated at 30 watt RMS @4ohms is not much power. Fair play, for £20 lets be realistic what should we expect? Tactile is about having an amp that specifically can deliver good low bass frequencies, budget stereo amps are not necessarily designed for this or the best option.

SMSL SA-98E is probably still one of the better amps for budget tactile, small yet quite powerful and plenty of tactile users have them. To get something more serious is taking you into @ £150+ for a quality 4ohm amp that can hammer out low bass frequencies all day long. We tend to find music professional amps come in 4ohm and are suitable for the demands of tactile.

 

[dwightyone]

Thanks for the reply - I've taken onboard what you've send and will leave as is and in the meantime will look into getting a more powerful amp. (thanks for the link!)
And am also trailing your tests on the SSW support thread - it's all very interesting to read and learn!

 

[Mr Latte]

Thanks for the reply - I've taken onboard what you've send and will leave as is and in the meantime will look into getting a more powerful amp. (thanks for the link!)
And am also trailing your tests on the SSW support thread - it's all very interesting to read and learn!

I'm keen to work on files that will accommodate all users.
Your own feedback with some test files would be welcomed.

If you want, please send a PM and let me know what config you are running, front/back or stereo in seat?
I will forward you some recent test files while not my latest they should let you enjoy SSW a bit more.

 

[scottiedawg66]

I am pretty experienced with audio gear and for the money the inuke1000 dsp cannot be touched. Super powerful and versatile. Anything less would not cut it even for 2 aura shakers imo

 

[Mr Latte]

So as I keep delving into experimenting and testing I feel some excellent progress has been made this past week. Really enjoying my newest "Lateral G" effect. Not only is it bringing excellent stereo positioned L/R energy, with superb depth and strong force. I have managed to find a way to help it bring detailed feel that seems to resemble the sensation of tyres on the road surface too.

Some more tuning can be done with this but Barcelona, Daytona Road course or others with major long bends now can bring a sensation that isn't just solely repeated/looped. As I continue to research, have trialed using some effects up to 30 seconds long with varied detail contained in them. These are operating actively on such long corners, these and other tracks have and man does it feel nice!!!

Below we see left/right in action.
Notice the "G Meter" and the activity of the effect in action with the frequencies being used above.
Here my SSW slider value was only at 65% so the dB is reduced and is seen below the yellow horizontal 0dB line.

You can however see with the frequencies it has a good range of low-mid bass from (5Hz -40Hz) whilst also having extra detail for the newly applied road feel and this coming in at below/above 100Hz