the ai: problem number 1000

[cangrejin]

the questions (BELOW), if possible, I would like to be answered by those (GTR233, SHOVAS, ETC ) who are "gutting" game (or ISI engine) files

well, i made several observations...and i would like to try to get the ai to do the following.

OBSERVATIONS:
1)
in f1 challenge the ia makes the classification (1 HOUR, AND ONLY 12 ATTEMPTS, no more, no less) as follows:
come out of the box...classify (1 fast and "strong" lap)...go back to the box.
or...
they leave the box....they classify 2 laps ("fast and strong")...return to the box.
as it happened in the real f1...in f1 challenge the cars only do ONE fast lap and then they return to the box....UNTIL COMPLETING THE 12 LAPS...DISTRIBUTED DURING THE WHOLE AVAILABLE TIME

2)
in a mod for GTR2... (a VERY respected one, being for offline with very combative "wheel to wheel racing" ai)....the AI is HISTORICALLY realistic (I mean, in qualifying and in the race the drivers are They "ordered" according to what happened in that real year (there were NO mixes and pilots known for being slow... being ahead)
....oddly enough the RCD files for EACH OF THE PILOTS...had exactly the same values.
(if all the rcd of all the pilots had the same values... I guess what MADE THE DIFFERENCE... were the cars)(i suppose)

2-bis: in some gtr2 mods... (as well as MANY in rfactor).... the ai comes out to classify... without any type of STRATEGY... with in F1 CHALLENGE (a fast lap and return to the box).....in gtr2 and rfactor...the AI GOES OUT TO QUALIFY many times...before returning to the box (sometimes they are even just slow laps because they are very heavy on fuel)
...I mean...if the ai had 50 laps to qualify....the ai would do all 50 laps in just ONE try...or until it ran out of fuel. ...and that's not real.

3- even sometimes the AI does not respect the limit of classification laps (assuming they were 12...the AI will try to do more laps...and is declassified)..that is a bad configuration of the mod.

questions:

how to make cars do that kind of qualifying strategy in gtr2? (or rfactor) (a fast lap, box, fast lap, box..)
how to make the ai respect the limit of classification laps?

 

[cangrejin]

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/rfactor-ia-mod-problems-help.226388/

I know this is from rfactor...(comments below)...but since hardly anyone answers...it also applies to GTR2.
I wanted to ask...

the AI RANGE ...should I modify it? (in ".aiw" file)
I have a mod, its ai (rcd) is well built (values well separated between slow and fast cars)...but on the track...you can barely see THE DIFFERENCE between slow and fast cars.

---

besides the sorting problems (no "strategy", mixed, and slow) I found what """""MAYBE""""" is the problem:
the HDV (I don't remember how it is in gtr2)
VERY high fuel values are specified in it...(I don't want to touch any of that until I know what it is)....
but """"""APPEARANT""""""" makes the ai cars qualify on low fuel (just one lap)....and then...NO MORE "to recharge" STOPS.. ..which produces that the following classification outputs...are fuel tank FULL.

(remember?...during the race, one can choose to "SCHEDULE" pit stops to refuel...1 or 2 or 3)

 

[Shovas]

questions:

how to make cars do that kind of qualifying strategy in gtr2? (or rfactor) (a fast lap, box, fast lap, box..)

If I understand you correctly, it's actually rather simple: In GTR2, Talent RCD files are tuned by hand to make better drivers drive faster than worse drivers.

You simply setup your drivers by best to worst and then edit their Talent RCD files and setup performance parameters in a descending order.

On track your best drivers will have faster laps.

how to make the ai respect the limit of classification laps?

I'm not quite sure here but I think GTR2 has the ability to limit qualifying time or laps. I would check the GDB files.

 

[cangrejin]

they are, the rcd are well configured. (Really)

what happens is that the "ai range" of the aiw is 0.10 (that value is in all the tracks)
...and as I understand it...that value (means 10%) makes all the RCD files serve within the RANGE OF THE LAST 10% (BETWEEN 90 AND 100 of their strength).... (that is, the slowest and the fastest will be between 90 and 100% speed... and between them they will handle their own rcd)
...I set it to 1.0 (which means 100%) and the RCDs EXTEND to 100 of their values (fastest and slowest are clearly noticeable)

Why such a "shy" value?

but the most important question (and that I can't find an answer to (in many places) is

how to make the ai load the NECESSARY fuel to make a qualifying strategy in ONE lap...enter the box....and classify again.....and also...this DOES NOT affect the race strategy ?
(IN F1 CHALLENGE, this is perfectly done, in qualifying they load very little fuel to qualify....and in the race they load ALL the fuel needed to finish the race....and if not enough...they activate the fuel stops to load the JUST AND NECESSARY fuel load ((no more, no less)))


and of course...
How to make them respect the qualification limit.
in the files...it is specified...that there are only 12 laps (in 1 hour)....they do 13....in just a few minutes...they are declassified...and most of the time...nothing happens.

about the gdb... what should I check?

THANK YOU FOR ANSWERING ME....I really appreciate it.
and sorry for all this "sermon".

 

[cangrejin]

about the gdb... I meant which line should I check?

 

[cangrejin]

For those who want to help me with the AI of a mod...you can go to this thread....here I made a table of values...and some advice. (I need advice) ... and many explanations.
basically it is the continuation of this thread

Thanks a lot

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/ai-editing-the-strength-of-a-mod-need-advice.228552/

 

[jgf]

"how to make the ai load the NECESSARY fuel to make a qualifying strategy in ONE lap...enter the box....and classify again.....and also...this DOES NOT affect the race strategy ?"

Create qualifying setups for the AI (for each type car they will be driving); this is done just like race setups but the files must be named track.race.svm and track.qual.svm (using the track name from its gdb file).

"...GTR2 has the ability to limit qualifying time or laps. I would check the GDB files."

You can set qual session length and time of day in the championship gdb file, but there is a lot of leeway in how this is implemented. Whatever length you set the session will remain open as long as any AI cars are on teh track ...and invariably a couple will go back out in the last few seconds. So basically the qual session will end when the time has expired and there are no cars on the track.

 

[cangrejin]

Brothers..I am defeated:

I'm almost on the verge of abandoning this problem....
JGF, thanks for your help.

points...

1- I don't think it's necessary for my AI to learn better racing lines....I've seen them in the race and they make fast lines and overtaking are very intelligent (except monaco)
one problem (not for me, but for others) is that if you have very different cars...and there are A LOT of cars...you have to do this with EVERY car...on EVERY track.
(luckily for me, although visually the mod has different cars... "inside" (mechanics) they are the same... even hdv files etc)

2- you say "using the track name from its gdb file"... that is in the line "TRACKNAME=" in the GDB file... or am I wrong? (or is it the name of the circuit folder?)

so....my circuit...is " trackname = Round 14 - Monza
(as written)

I have did this:
I (not the ai) did the best qualifying lap I could....with the best setup I can (in monza) single lap (fuel only for one fast lap...go out, run, go in)
....and save that config (in the game menu you save it with SVM)....

I put that file in every (damn) car that had an hdv and pm file. (the truth is, that all the cars in this mod...use THE SAME hdv and pm...only one in the mod)

I renamed it Round 14 - Monza.qual.svm (remember ...the ".qual.")

-also in the GDB file of monza...at the end of the whole file there is a line called "SettingAI = " (not iasettings as you mentioned... but I understood well anyway) and I put the name of the file svm....(in addition to leaving in the setups folder of the circuit one equal ...this is in USERDATA /my user/ settings / circuit name....this is the folder where the setup configs that one wants to save are saved)

remember...I put ".qual" to the file...

...and nothing....nothing at all. (didn't work)
the AI keeps doing a fast lap in qualy and all the others very slow.

I must say that even so... as I have done some very good RCD talent... they are sorted correctly in classification and in the race I have some VERY entertaining fights and overtaking. (of the AI with me, and of the AI against the AI)


can you please (just please)...consolidate your answers in this thread? (all) gave good answers on different sites. it would be better to unify them on this site.
EDIT: sorry...I meant... unify answers in the corresponding thread...this is:
there is deeply explained the problem

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/rfactor-ia-mod-problems-help.226388/

another similar:

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/ai-editing-the-strength-of-a-mod-need-advice.228552/

I did this thread (THIS you are reading) to "call" those who want to help. (to the corresponding thread)
Sorry if I made a mistake in any step... and for such a long reading... if you can explain the solution to me in other terms.

Thank you.

 

[jgf]

In the track gdb you will find "SettingsAI =", this is what you name the AI setups; this may or may not be the folder name or menu track name, it is how the game references the track.

The AI setup file then goes in the car folder (with the hdv files, pm files, etc.).

Don't forget you must also set-
Vehicle Specific AI Setups="1"
Default Player Setup="1"
in the "Game Options" of your plr file.

 

[MJQT]

can you please (just please)...consolidate your answers in this thread? (all) gave good answers on different sites. it would be better to unify them on this site.

I 100% agree, and so do others – like Speednut, who started assembling a guide:

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/my-personal-work-on-ai-in-race-07.226393/#post-3512379

But it's a big task. Not something I have time for right now (busy time for me). But there's sufficient knowledge out there in the community for a general "AI Guide" for ISI-based sims (GTR2, rF1, AMS) that covers most of what you can (and can't) do. A task for the future.

the AI keeps doing a fast lap in qualy and all the others very slow.

You know, I just had a thought. In case doing the setup assignments correctly doesn't fix the problem. Have you ever ridden onboard with one of the AI cars and watched it go around, doing its one (or a few) fast lap then going out and being slow afterwards?

Could they be getting aero damage on their first laps? It's a known issue with GTR2 and rF1 that AI cars slow down noticeably after getting aero damage – it can ruin long races. The solution is to increase the AeroMin value in the DMG file to a high value (so they don't get aero damage anymore). See here for more info:

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/why-are-ai-so-humbling-in-qualifying-and-average-in-race.220624/#post-3491664

 

[cangrejin]

Have I put the driver's camera on ai and looked at his speeds and lap times?...YES, many times...
Only their first attempt is fast...(and it's not really fast, I reach 320 km/h...they 300, this is solved by increasing the AI force in the game menu) they return to the box... and the following ones are done consecutively...slower (between 3-4 sec slower)
as I said a thousand times... if a "fast" ai can't do his first fast lap (example: traffic)...his other laps...(3-4 sec slow) will condemn him to 20th place.

Luckily I modified the airrange of the gdb...this practically solved that "fast ai in 20 position" problem...and I made new rcd more "spaced" but more aggressive...now even though the classification is continuous (the laps )...at least the AI classifies in an orderly manner according to its fastest pilots towards the slowest ones.
(sometimes there is even some pretty interesting and nice randomness)

I'll look at that guide. thank you

aerodynamic damage? that's new (and highly unlikely)...i'll still take a close look

please..if you can answer in the corresponding thread:
here

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/rfactor-ia-mod-problems-help.226388/#post-3519774

...and here

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/ai-editing-the-strength-of-a-mod-need-advice.228552/#post-3519767

thx.

 

[jgf]

The aeromin is definitely a factor in performance; VonDutch explores this in his AI tutorial. Any contact between cars causes damage, even if just a slight tap; this damage is cumulative and is manifested in game as extra drag. Raising this value just increases the amount of force necessary to cause damage.

 

[cangrejin]

EDIT:
then definitely not. in qualifying the problem is the order (leave, qualify, enter)...and maybe some lack of speed (but it's the same for everyone... so I'm not worried)

in the race it can be... but I have seen complete races of the ai... although there are slight frictions and crashes... they never lose performance (almost nothing... or nothing)