The RaceDepartment Podcast | Season 2 Episode 10: Too Many GT3's

[Paul Jeffrey]

The latest RaceDepartment Podcast episode is here, available now for your listening pleasure.

In the latest episode of the RaceDepartment Podcast, @Paul Glover, @Davide Nativo and @Daniel Monteiro take to the virtual studio once again to discuss all things real and virtual motorsport. In this latest episode the team ponder over the ever-growing influx of GT3 machinery in sim racing, and wonder how much is enough, and do we now have too many of these interesting specification cars.

Other highlights include basking in the glory of a failed Paul Glover endurance adventure, and many more treats besides...

As always, big thanks to @RasmusP for audio editing!

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[vascocsilva]

"having all of these other gt3s in other sims, to me it makes no sense at all"
Yeh, screw the guys who can't run ACC, those are not worthy of racing in gt3 cars, and screw the games that came before ACC that have gt3, they should be aware of what was coming at them.

 

[Flip-Flop Driver]

People love to ride Big Body Cars with aids because road racing is all about braking. Remove the brakes challenge and you include a lot of people.
And I think every game will profit from adding them because some cars like the Ferrari drive completely different in Nurbs scan no chicane.
I think the room for improvement is not in offering different content but better content. For example we don't run in the points cloud data. We run on a much simpler triangle mesh (not talking about visuals) sampled from that.

 

[Mr Deap]

Pretty sure here it's GT3 Esport department & why everyone see me as a troll...

Thanks for pointing me out living under a rock.

 

[Bonoldi]

I love GT3/GT4 races...and ACC brings the best to it!!!!

 

[UMC 22]

Yeh, screw the guys who can't run ACC, those are not worthy of racing in gt3 cars, and screw the games that came before ACC that have gt3, they should be aware of what was coming at them.

That clearly isn't what he meant, but I suppose you needed something to get angry about today huh?

We have GT3's in nearly every main sim currently on the market. Some of those sims are new, some of them are old, some of them are very specific, some offer a wide variety of other content. The thing is, most don't even offer different eras of the same class... it's the same old cars in the same old class in every single sim.

That being the case, I hardly think it is outrageous to suggest that perhaps we don't need these particular cars in every single sim on the market. Perhaps it might be nice for at least one or two developers to spend those licensing fees on acquiring something a little more unique and equally (or more) interesting. Such a sim would certainly get my vote.

 

[Steve Bird]

Cool, another podcast to listen to on my commute back from work. Always very entertaining and thought provoking .....and Danny bashing Good to see you're back Paul. Keep up the great work lads.

 

[Two Hands]

I can understand why people feel like GT3 cars are overrepresented in simulators. However at the same time some of the best races I have had here and elsewhere have been in various GT3 cars. I do have a soft spot for the way classic race cars handle as well as formula cars but the close racing that is to be had in multiple titles racing GT cars is fantastic fun.

With that said I would love to see more sims run more classic series. I love classes like GTO, Group C, classic formula cars, Le Mans prototypes throughout the ages, classic touring cars, etc.

 

[Ami_M3]

It doesn't take a genius to see that GT3 is a must for any sim, because it sells. As much as people continue to claim how they love classic cars (or whatever), and that it would be great if sim x should focus on x-series, it just wouldn't sell. If CM didn't have exclusive license for F1, you can bet every sim would have licensed F1 content as well.
GT3 is fairly popular, it's not exclusive, so no wonder developers keep introducing GT3 vehicles in their titles. I'm glad they do, and it makes sense to have them in all sims imo.

 

[Mekonrider]

I think it's testament to the class that a lot of people seem to demand them in every sim. It's really just a safety net of sorts to maybe get a few more sales?

Personally I'm a historics man and so glad we have some talented modders for AC/RF2 as I don't think something like GT Legends would be a big seller these days. I'm not sure it was even a big seller back in the day.

I reckon only F1, GT3 and touring cars could carry off sims with no other content these days.

 

[Zuffenhausen Weiss]

GT3 gives what people, who dislike spec racing, love the most - variety

 

[Davide Nativo]

As much as people continue to claim how they love classic cars (or whatever), and that it would be great if sim x should focus on x-series, it just wouldn't sell

People, and especially devs from which people have acquainted this (false) notion and they keep repeating it, keep on going saying this. However, I seem to see that whenever classic content gets released for any given sim, people jump immediately aboard. After all, has any dev actually tried to make an historic sim, to support this given claim? No. Honestly, I think it's just an excuse, because making an historic sim would be a real pain, due to licensing brands no longer existing or scattered, and choosing a specific series from a plethora of equally valid option. Better going with the easy option, GT3 and LMP1 (or F1).
To those who say that GPL, which is the only example in the field but relates to a different era of simracing, in a scenario completely different from the one that exists now, was a fiasco, they are wrong. That is just one of the many urban legends surrounding that game.

 

[GigaS27]

Thanks for the new pod cast, I've been enjoying them all. I'll need to check it out but for now i'll just say I just wish devs put the amount of time and effort into the detail that ACC did with the GT3 cars. I think if that was the case we'd see interest in many other type of classes... Being that ACC has these very specific details when it comes to this class, i honestly don't enjoy driving the GT3's in other sims as much...

 

[BazzaLB]

That clearly isn't what he meant, but I suppose you needed something to get angry about today huh?

We have GT3's in nearly every main sim currently on the market. Some of those sims are new, some of them are old, some of them are very specific, some offer a wide variety of other content. The thing is, most don't even offer different eras of the same class... it's the same old cars in the same old class in every single sim.

That being the case, I hardly think it is outrageous to suggest that perhaps we don't need these particular cars in every single sim on the market. Perhaps it might be nice for at least one or two developers to spend those licensing fees on acquiring something a little more unique and equally (or more) interesting. Such a sim would certainly get my vote.

Isn't this what AMS2 started out like? Unique content? You've seen the general reaction to its content. Its like Nurburgring. People get COD games every year because people seem to want the same thing delivered over and over and over. At least, that's what the sales suggest. GT3s are amongst the easiest cars to drive hence that's what people have gravitated to I guess so they can concentrate on racing as opposed to the nuances of keeping the car on the track.

 

[Alex Townsend]

Looking forward to the new podcast guys, thanks for taking the time to put it together!

 

[miuqana]

As much as I love GT3 racing, Think it really misses a game with 90's and 2000's cars, like FIA GT, ALMS and stuff like that, the variety of those times was even bigger than GT3... Or touring cars, so many different championships over the years with awesome, awesome cars.

 

[Ami_M3]

People, and especially devs from which people have acquainted this (false) notion and they keep repeating it, keep on going saying this. However, I seem to see that whenever classic content gets released for any given sim, people jump immediately aboard. After all, has any dev actually tried to make an historic sim, to support this given claim? No. Honestly, I think it's just an excuse, because making an historic sim would be a real pain, due to licensing brands no longer existing or scattered, and choosing a specific series from a plethora of equally valid option. Better going with the easy option, GT3 and LMP1 (or F1).
To those who say that GPL, which is the only example in the field but relates to a different era of simracing, in a scenario completely different from the one that exists now, was a fiasco, they are wrong. That is just one of the many urban legends surrounding that game.

It's not about what people keep repeating. It's what people keep doing. When I say people, I mean, average audience.
When you look at multiplayer, servers hosting GT3 are usually the busiest. Just because when something different (not GT3) is released and shows spike of interest, it doesn't mean much, because after awhile people will gravitate back to same old, same old. Just look at what happened to GT4 class in ACC. People were so excited, first weeks lots of people used GT4 cars racing online, but now it's back to normal.

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to see some more classic stuff myself, but from my observation people will gravitate toward content that is more accessible (i.e easier to drive). Raceroom has WTCR for instance (actually very easy to drive too), but when you look at online activity with their ranked servers, they are usually empty, while GT3 are busy.
Raceroom is actually good example, because it has classes that have pretty good (if not always complete) car roster - Group 5, Touring Classics, DTM1992, etc. Awesome content but you won't see that many people using it. Sure there are organized events, but we need to look at general public, because few enthusiasts (I'm exaggerating of course) is not enough to generate enough sales. So yes, I think creating historic content, while awesome and I would love to see more of it myself, carries way more risk than going with what average simracer wants. Same goes for tracks, well known will always sell better than some obscure, even if outstanding tracks. That's a fact nobody can deny.
Just my opinion, but it comes from observation, so I don't believe I'm way off. Sadly

 

[Terry Rock]

I'd love to see a proper Group C offering from one of the top development groups.
While I won't knock the current GT3 releases, it is time to introduce other models.
That Silkcut Jaguar has always been appealing. Go straight to 01:41 of the video for 'eargasm'.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...610EF7C4C5B5C1EEEEF0610&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

 

[XhendrickX]

I have nothing against GT3/GT4 with tracks like Spa, Monza, Nurburgring, Nords etc. I mean as a dev you wanna publish content that is going to sell to most and keep people playing your game. Some would even question if a game can be a sim without that. Sure we already have too much of this in the market but I do not see this changing soon in future. New devs will come and recycle the same stuff.
As great as AAC maybe its not for me. I get bored quickly. Same class, same tracks I have driven on for like decades gaming. I prefer Raceroom for more content and classes. I like AMS2 for the Brazilian tracks. They are so much fun to learn and race on. At the end of the day game development is a business. Its about selling a popular product. Right now its GT3.

 

[roadyroad]

People, and especially devs from which people have acquainted this (false) notion and they keep repeating it, keep on going saying this. However, I seem to see that whenever classic content gets released for any given sim, people jump immediately aboard. After all, has any dev actually tried to make an historic sim, to support this given claim? No. Honestly, I think it's just an excuse, because making an historic sim would be a real pain, due to licensing brands no longer existing or scattered, and choosing a specific series from a plethora of equally valid option. Better going with the easy option, GT3 and LMP1 (or F1).
To those who say that GPL, which is the only example in the field but relates to a different era of simracing, in a scenario completely different from the one that exists now, was a fiasco, they are wrong. That is just one of the many urban legends surrounding that game.

Project cars 2 has shown what to expect : it was hard to find classic series races online and 70% of the online races, with at least 80% of players, were gt3 races. These races were created by players, so it's a good indicator of what categories people want to race in.

Although I'm sure classic content has potential, I wouldn't take the risk to develop an entire sim with only one historic series. I think the way AMS2 does it is a safer solution, packing classic series with modern racing ones. But is AMS2 a commercial hit? Are many playing its classic cars ?