Too many settings?

[Terry Rock]

Of the various racing title I own, RRE gets the least amount of use.
Though credit needs to be given the developers for big improvements since it's introduction,
some major things create a real nuisance.
My biggest issue stems from the controller settings.
They're just too darn many of them.
You may be saying "What's wrong with that?"
My answer is; The settings in question, do not exist in real life situations as used in the game.
I typically want any car I drive...whether it be real or simulated to respond to three major setup inputs...caster, camber and Toe.
Sure, I'll 'play' around with bump stop, spring rates and things like sway-bar stiffness etc.
What I do not want is s**t like vertical and lateral loading, return multiplier, analog sector 1,2,3 etc.
Wing and splitter settings are responsible for downforce...make them do that, without all the gimmicks.
Where can you set the other four setting mentioned on a real car?
You can't, since they do not exist.
Sector3 needs to make their cars respond properly to standard suspension changes and stop asking guys to "compensate" for lack of direct response with non-realistic settings.

 

[Majuh]

What are you even talking about, FFB or car setups?

 

[Terry Rock]

What are you even talking about, FFB or car setups?

Really?
"controller settings"

 

[Majuh]

You're mixing something up here, controller settings and physics are two different things.

 

[William Wester]

Of the various racing title I own, RRE gets the least amount of use.
Though credit needs to be given the developers for big improvements since it's introduction,
some major things create a real nuisance.
My biggest issue stems from the controller settings.
They're just too darn many of them.
You may be saying "What's wrong with that?"
My answer is; The settings in question, do not exist in real life situations as used in the game.
I typically want any car I drive...whether it be real or simulated to respond to three major setup inputs...caster, camber and Toe.
Sure, I'll 'play' around with bump stop, spring rates and things like sway-bar stiffness etc.
What I do not want is s**t like vertical and lateral loading, return multiplier, analog sector 1,2,3 etc.
Wing and splitter settings are responsible for downforce...make them do that, without all the gimmicks.
Where can you set the other four setting mentioned on a real car?
You can't, since they do not exist.
Sector3 needs to make their cars respond properly to standard suspension changes and stop asking guys to "compensate" for lack of direct response with non-realistic settings.

I think you are talking about "controller" settings. With that said, everyone isn't using real world hardware. With so many hardware variables, developers attempt to allow the gamer to find the sweet spot with their controller of choice. There's belt/gear/direct drive wheels ranging in cost from $100 to thousands, gamepads from many manufacturers, etc. Heck, just supporting a gear driven Logitech or a belt driven Thrustmaster for instance will take some configuration options to arrive at a similar experience. In a perfect world everyone could afford the best controller, and the developers would only have to support a very limited hardware scope.
On one hand I know what your getting at but on the other we must understand what the developer is up against. Take the consoles, they restrict to a very limited controller scope, on the computer most every controller made in the past 10 or more years can work.
Just a discussion....

 

[Andy_J]

I think we have a very confused member here. FFB or car setups?

 

[Andy Kettler]

Omg...

Try this: https://forum.sector3studios.com/in...ng-experience-faq-and-game-features-w-i-p.72/

Some of the options are for other input methodes than wheels...

 

[Paul Bennett]

If we are talking about FFB settings I have to agree there are too many settings. I much prefer Rezia/ISI, just done with a few clicks.
As for RRe I find the FFB multiplier is the most effective to get the best from the sim.

 

[Terry Rock]

You're mixing something up here, controller settings and physics are two different things.

What're you talking about man?
The items called out in my first post are right there under advance controller settings.
Using vertical and lateral load and all the other silly settings to make the car 'feel' and respond as it should with normal suspension and wing tweaks is a short-coming.
I can buy William and Andy's position that the settings are there to cover various controllers.
What that really means, is that the developers did not go the extra mile to put basic default controller profiles in play.
They've instead left it up to end users to get the car 'feeling' the way they want it to.
That's not good, since feel is subjective.

 

[Majuh]

What're you talking about man?
The items called out in my first post are right there under advance controller settings.
Using vertical and lateral load and all the other silly settings to make the car 'feel' and respond as it should with normal suspension and wing tweaks is a short-coming.

You don't seem to understand. Suspension and wing settings in car setups don't have anything to do with FFB. The FFB settings don't make the car feel differently; it's your controller that feels differently.

I can buy William and Andy's position that the settings are there to cover various controllers.
What that really means, is that the developers did not go the extra mile to put basic default controller profiles in play.
They've instead left it up to end users to get the car 'feeling' the way they want it to.
That's not good, since feel is subjective.

This is ridiculous, the existence of these settings means that they are going the extra mile in order to support different controllers. FFB is always subjective. Apart from that, why don't you simply use the preset for your wheel and ignore the whole controller settings screen?

 

[Terry Rock]

I think we have a very confused member here. FFB or car setups?

I'm far from confused.
The unrealistic load values...though called advance controller settings appear to amongst other things, be there to influence suspension loading...which in turn seems to be partially used to influence controller feedback input.
Vertical loading is the job of the wing and splitter settings. Lateral loading is tire compound and suspension geometry.
In proper simulation, controller feel/feedback should not be determined by outside forces and should be handled only by the controller's software.
All else should remain constant.

 

[Erik Springelkamp]

I'm far from confused.
The unrealistic load values...though called advance controller settings appear to amongst other things, be there to influence suspension loading...which in turn seems to be partially used to influence controller feedback input.
Vertical loading is the job of the wing and splitter settings. Lateral loading is tire compound and suspension geometry.
In proper simulation, controller feel/feedback should not be determined by outside forces and should be handled only by the controller's software.
All else should remain constant.

Where can I buy your simulation?

 

[xnorb]

In a perfect world every sim applies the forces calculated by the physics engine in such a matter that it's the same for a cheap used DFGT wheel like for a Fanatec wheel.
But world isn't perfect and so it's best to deliver a solid FFB base and have the users adjust if they think something is off.

The only thing that should definitely be in any sim is a plugin that shows you if your FFB is clipping or not.

Regarding setup options:
I'm sure you can change all that in race cars.
Of course you don't have those options on street cars.

 

[Andy_J]

I'm far from confused.

Well I can assure you I am.

 

[Arne Dopudja]

I'm far from confused.
The unrealistic load values...though called advance controller settings appear to amongst other things, be there to influence suspension loading...which in turn seems to be partially used to influence controller feedback input.
Vertical loading is the job of the wing and splitter settings. Lateral loading is tire compound and suspension geometry.
In proper simulation, controller feel/feedback should not be determined by outside forces and should be handled only by the controller's software.
All else should remain constant.

Vertical Load is the forces on your FFB, due to wing and air resistance. Nothing influences suspension loading. The suspension influences your steering wheel FFB.

 

[Brandon Wright]

I'm far from confused.
The unrealistic load values...though called advance controller settings appear to amongst other things, be there to influence suspension loading...which in turn seems to be partially used to influence controller feedback input.
Vertical loading is the job of the wing and splitter settings. Lateral loading is tire compound and suspension geometry.
In proper simulation, controller feel/feedback should not be determined by outside forces and should be handled only by the controller's software.
All else should remain constant.

No, they don't influence suspension loading or geometry. All they do is allow you to tweak how much of those effects you feel in your wheel. Some people like a heavy wheel, some like a light wheel, the controller settings let the individual tweak those feelings to their liking. I agree that it creates a bit of a headache when trying to get your FFB dialed in but they have no effect on the actual behavior of the car. Of course since real cars don't use FFB controllers you would not find those settings on a real car, but every single racing sim has some sort of FFB options so I'm not sure why R3E is being singled out for this.

Also, things like return multiplier and analog sector controls only apply to gamepads so if you're using a wheel there's no need to bother with any of those.

 

[Andy_J]

So he is confused then?

 

[Brandon Wright]

So he is confused then?

From what I can gather, yes. He's lumping FFB wheel settings and gamepad controls in with the car setup options and those are three entirely separate and different things. Car setup controls how the car behaves, FFB settings control how your wheel feels, gamepad settings control how your controller behaves. I do agree that there are probably too many FFB settings, but those have nothing to do with car setup or how the car behaves.