Touch immersion equipment - amateur setup.

[worms14]

Hi everyone.
I would like to ask for tips on how to best set up what I have in my Rig.
For these purposes I will use:
- Realtek sound card 5.1
- additional USB 7.1 sound card
- SimHub software
- 2 x Daytona BST-1
- SMSL SA-98E
- 1x ButtKicker BK-LFE
- Behringer NX3000D
- vibration mat of the Realteus Seat
- 12 pcs of vibro-insulators
I chose what I could afford at the moment and I would like to make the best use of it in my system.
I wonder what effects are best to choose in Sim Hub and how to distribute them, to which devices to send. To what extent to set the reception to be the best.
I would like to mount the BST-1 under the pedals to have a stereo, I know that the plate on which my feet will rest cannot be made of one piece and I have to cut it to two elements.

The Realteus mat has the best contact with my body, I think it is the best for stereo effects and can be read without any problems with 4 vibrators on the back, and 4 vibrators on the seat.

There is still BK-LFE, which I am going to install behind the seat.

I am asking for hints and tips on how to mix it all up, set it all up and what to focus on.


At the moment I'm using the BST-1 front / rear setup connected to the Realtek and SMSL SA-98E, and the Realteus mats.

I tried to make wood mounts for the BST-1, but it seems to me that this material is weak to transmit vibrations and tactile sensations.

I can use 4mm sheet which probably does better but is worse to machine.


By adding BK-LFE I would like to jump to a slightly higher level in the perception of touch.

Best mount Front BST1

Seat BMW

Best mount seat BMW rear

Trial of the stereo V3 wood

I apologize in advance for my English, I hope it will be understandable a little.

 

[worms14]

Gentlemen, I received the NX3000D amplifier and I have a problem how to properly connect it to the sound card, will something like that work and is it the right cable?


Jack 3.5


The sound card has a 3.5 jack output, I understand that having only 1 LFE and wanting to put it behind the chair, I still leave the sound output marked FRONT, should I use a different Rear output, does it not matter?
In NX 3000D I'm going to go into CHANEL A and CHANEL A output to LFE, will that be correct?

I do not know yet how to set it up, or do I have to configure the NX 3000D properly, but so far I do not have LFE, tomorrow theoretically a courier will deliver it to me.

I am asking for help, because all this is very incomprehensible to me, and I would not like to damage anything.

 

[Wmacky]

Will that sound card only supply the LFE? If so use the front output. This connects to the NX3000 with a 3.5mm to dual XLR, or dual phone. pick just one and plug into channel A on the NX. Actually you can plug both in and just turn down the currently unused channel

 

[worms14]

Thanks a lot for your answer, good man.
You can still answer how to disable unused channel in NX3000D?
Right now I have two on for sure.

The equipment arrived I had a very busy weekend, but I am happy with the results, although there is probably a lot to refine in the settings for LFE.
My stereo setup for Fanatec V3 works more as a Front, the signal got a lot stronger with two BST1s, I feel my leg jumping haha.

I will try to record a video of the action and now pics.

 

[worms14]

I am still wondering about the correct setting of the NX3000D.
Is it possible to download files somewhere that improve LFE operation by introducing corrections, or some pictures that show what to change?
I have noticed that sometimes the piston sounds as if it was hitting the housing.
I also need to think of a better mounting method to better transmit vibrations and avoid rattling and sizzling of the aluminum profiles.

 

[worms14]

After a few days of fun, I come to the conclusion that the two BST-1 Daytona work much stronger in the 30Hz to 70Hz range than the LFE.
I wonder what it is caused by, I am still looking for a better location of the LFE under the seat and unfortunately the changes in conveying the feelings are minimal.
I will also add that I have the BST-1 almost at the minimum volume, but mounting directly to the Fanatec V3 construction meant that I do not need any more happiness.
LLE here with the range is different, the potentiometer in the NX3000D is set to about 12:30, the sound card is set to max, in the SimHub, the volume is from 13 to 100, usually if I want to increase the reception of vibrations, I turn up the SimHub, but it ends in a dirty LFE operation sometimes even with a piston stroke.
It is too difficult for me to acquire knowledge in the field of audio, I suspect that I have something wrongly positioned and I do not believe that 2 BST-1s can provide more nanoga power than one LFE at the front, but at the moment it is like that.
In the range up to 12Hz, the Lfe will also move the chair, but I would like its work to be as strong in the entire range, without any dirt.
Can someone help me with a photo of their settings?

As for turning off the Chanel B loudspeaker, I turned the potentiometer down to 0, I hope nothing else needs to be done when I have only one LFE, and I have the output from the 2x 6.3 mm sound card connected

Still, the issue is connecting the fan, can someone help me how to connect the 4 pin with what is in the NX3000D?

One more thing is the fact that I have the NX3000D connected to a power strip, when I do not play, I turn it off, isn't it harmful for this amplifier?

 

[Mr Latte]

Hi, just some points with a bit of detail I will highlight having had a quick read and look at your installation.

The BST, so their energy is going directly into the pedals, the first point of contact they have is with the pedals and you are getting the full output energy as it has to pass through those before it even begins to leak to other connected surfaces/objects.

You have some isolation on the pedals which will help a bit but those (which many people use) are still limited in the energy they will isolate to what will still seep through them into the mainframe.

In comparison with your seat, so you have a full car seat that has lots of absorbing materials/cushioning. Let's trace the path the energy from your BK has to go to reach the seat but then also other areas it can seep into before it even reaches the seat.

Nothing I see prevents the energy from the BK from going down into the primary 8020 frame and then also into the floor. Let's ask ourselves what makes the vibrations it generates go up into the seat and not down into the frame? So how much energy is potentially escaping away from the seat?

The difference here to the pedals is that the seat is not the primary surface/point of contact, it's not getting the primary energy. You mention more strength with the low frequencies @12Hz. The reason for this is that low Hz have much more energy bandwidth that's why it moves the seat but different frequencies all have their own unique feel. Place an engine on idle and you will feel clear variations with every single Hz (eg: 8Hz 9Hz 10Hz 11Hz 12Hz) but felt more so with low Hz than higher frequencies based on them having more bandwidth.

Different tactile have their own peak characteristic outputs with certain frequencies. No difference to how speaker or headphones can vary and yes BK units are not that impressive beyond 60-80Hz frequencies.

One other possible factor is that, as these frequencies have much less bandwidth energy they may travel less far from the point of installation. Although this can be affected by different materials in how they resonate too and I think one of the factors with the seat you use, that its also absorbing certain frequencies more than others.

Improvements?
Have the 8020 the BK is installed on to bolt in some way directly to the seat's inner steel frame. Then see about also placing the seat on decent isolators but more substantial options than the ones used on pedals. This will help you get its primary energy and again the scenario that the energy has to flow through the seat before it can disperse into other surfaces and travel down through the isolators and into the main frame. The more or better isolation you use the less energy that will seep beyond the seat.

You should also show what settings you have working with the DSP, we can often help pull a bit more performance and tuning from the BK with these.

Fan cable pin adapters can be used (will edit with a link later)

 

[worms14]

I am very pleased that you managed to appear in my topic, thank you very much.
I only hope that everything the Lord tries to convey to me is understood and applied as far as possible.
I immediately emphasize that I am not going to impose myself on you in any way, or have something bad in mind. I am not good at English and I support myself with google translator.


As I understood, the insulators I bought are of poor quality, or I haven't thought about their installation well enough.
On the pedals, I have no idea how I could isolate them better, here I only see the possibility of using better ones, but I do not know them.

As for the chair, yesterday I was able to finally try to suppress something, although in this case it is not as easy as in V3 Fanatec. I have a complicated assembly.
I have no idea for further vibration isolators.
I was also looking for a better place for LFE, but I think it confirms what you wrote about too many elements along the way before the touch reaches me.

I did not locate the frame of the armchair where I could fit the LFE, the armchair has too many possible adjustments (front, back, height and backrest position)
At the moment it looks like this, I'm also a photographer.

 

[worms14]

May I have a link to these better insulators for the seat?


As for the dsp settings, I understand it is about the tabs from the NX3000D.
I practically did not change anything there:

 

[Mr Latte]

Our Lord is not the author of confusion.
You are doing very well if English is not your native language.

Where are you from?

Do you have Penn Elcom stores?

You are willing as already have been experimenting this is good.
I can try to help some more later perhaps?

 

[worms14]

PENN-ELCOM - okucia do skrzyń, walizek, kufrów, flightcase: zamki, profile aluminiowe, rączki, nóżki, zawiasy, narożniki

It seems that such a store is located in my country, I live in Poland.
Sure, I will wait for your advice as soon as you find it, I will read it with pleasure.

 

[worms14]

I got a package with Noctua NF-R8, I wonder how to connect it now? The only wire that matches is the black one on the left and I have its equivalent in the NX3000D.
The amplifier is still under warranty and I would not like to cut the original wires

 

[Mr Latte]

Try black and yellow of 4 pin plug on amp.
I preferred to use adapters for good connection but I believe some people have had just the 2 pins connected into the 4

Yellow = 12V
Black = GND

 

[Mr Latte]

I imported fan adapter cables a few years ago which at the time could not find in UK but I think this one I have found below, you could try. They were 2pin GPU fan cables for older graphics cards with 2 pin headers.

Look on Amazon perhaps this one will do but not sure from images if it's 3 or 4 pin?

This is the one I originally ordered but shop around to try and find one the same but cheaper or more local.

Now some thoughts on your current installation for BK- Seat


Red:
With some modifications a new support section for BK to mount directly to the seat frame. A solution placed here would have vibes that go up flow more directly into the seat and vibes that go down, still run through the seat's main metal structure component. This way you get more of the flowing energy.

Your current updated solution still only produces energy from the top side of the extrusion frame into your seat base it is connected to. So we want direct contact with the primary object and the ability for it to flow through that object more before it can escape elsewhere or to other connected materials/surfaces.

Blue:
Improved and more substantial isolator solution with wider 80mm extrusion front/back to allow installation of a wider diameter isolator. Options can be looked at and discussed but improvements here will help hold the energy better in the seat frame.

For DSP Settings

Crossover:
As you have only 1 unit compare settings with the Blue and Orange shown below
4 to try, give us your feedback and thoughts.

Set A

Set B


These options let you either extend with boost the curve.
One option is to extend into the higher Hz (orange) the other is to focus on the low bass and limit the range but with strong gains to the lowest bass.

These options should feel quite different to the stock amp settings using the same input volume (front knob positons)

Parametric Equalisation (PEQ):

This is just an example of trying to push a bit more energy from the BK over the 60Hz range of you have those frequencies being activated with the crossover?

It also has a dip at @35 Hz but move this for large BK more to @25Hz
Note you can increase/decrease this dip and widen or narrow it to cover more or less frequencies (Q factor). The reason for this is to find a setting that reduces the piston pang as these large BK can produce a peak around this range. Therefore when we crank the volume to boost other frequencies, we also are controlling or limiting that output peak these units produce.

Simply means you can reduce piston pang problems but still boost other frequencies with no issues. ​

With these tools you can control the amplitude (output strength) of specific frequencies and determine what frequencies your tactile uses. They are very useful tools for personal preference tuning. Also for controlling reverb noise in some materials.

If interested we can later look at options for improved isolation but with a method that is affordable.

 

[worms14]

You found the best possible location on the LFE, at the beginning I thought about it, but due to the limited space and the profile with LFE transversely attached, it would jam on the profile and I would not have rear-front adjustment of the seat.
However, after your suggestions, I will probably think about the reconstruction of the chair mounting and the profiles will be mounted parallel to the guide rails, thanks to which I will press the LFE there, it will be a perfect location.
There is not much space there, only 13 cm from the mechanism of the chair, but it should be fine.
The Lord directed me very well, thank you very much.
I am open to further suggestions.

I was about to post a reply and thanks, and here's another suggestion for the NX3000D, you are great, thank you so much.

 

[Mr Latte]

Let us know how these DSP settings feel, if they help to improve the current installation.
Make sure in the configuration you have no wattage limits set so the BK gets full amp power.

More help here also

 

[worms14]

5mm rubber strips fell into my hands and I decided to additionally dampen the chair in a place where there could be a leak

Front

Back

I also replaced the fan, everything works, finally there is a blissful silence, thank you very much for your help.

I also loaded the presets, but I'm lost with how I should do it correctly, whether to work in Stereo or Dual mode

It seems that even in the simplest matters I will get lost.
Thank you for the link to the topic, I have already read the NX3000 guide once, I think that before I understand everything, understand everything, it will be a long time.

I suspect that in the A setup settings it is not as if you were imagining it, so how should I improve something.
Set A dual:

Set A stereo:

 

[Mr Latte]

Ok good news, you are blessed.

Now to clarify some misunderstood things.

You are only using one transducer at the moment.
So yes having DUAL mode is fine, don't worry about nothing being powered on the opposite side.
In the screenshots you see meter levels for input/output.

The INPUT LEVEL is the knobs on the front of the amp, so these increase the gain level of the source. We dont want this to be too high as then we would be adding distortion.

The OUTPUT LEVEL is the internal operation of the amplification.
Most users can use Simhub/Soundcard at 50-60% and then the amps front dials at somewhere between 12pm-2pm position. It is then easy to alter the output by changing your soundcard/Simhub volume from keyboard etc.

DUAL mode allows a user to set independent DSP settings for each input/output
So if you had 2x different transducers connected to the amp. You would then set all the options to suit each unit. This can be applying a digital wattage limiter (for a smaller unit) and then its own Crossover/EQ settings to tune that unit to suit its own characteristics and your installation of it.

In STEREO mode it applies the same DSP etc to both units.

I recommend using DUAL mode, even if the user was using 2x identical BK, The reason is we can balance some felt differences or the two BK may be installed in different places or be given different roles for different effects. In these scenarios, we might benefit or prefer a transducer unit to have its own DSP settings.

 

[Mr Latte]

Now on the amp it refers to inputs A & B
You then see the controls in the software for this.

The settings shown, as you only have one BK unit.
You only need to use channel A on the amp turn the other down.

What I meant with the screenshots for settings
Try each, this means all those settings, one at a time to test.

The curves in orange and the curves in blue = 4 tests to try.
Do one at a time and save it.

* You can save profiles also to PC location and give them more understandable file names.

These differ alot in how the frequencies and the dB for specific frequencies will be output to the BK It should change quite a bit what you feel from Simhub using the same effects.

Try this then report back

 

[Mr Latte]

EQ Changes

Move Dip more towards 25Hz (choose your own gain and Q)
Move Boost more towards 60-80Hz (choose your own gain and Q)