Upgrading Sound

[Clover11]

Sound is a big part of the experience for me and I am looking to upgrade from the gaming headset I got as a gift a long time ago. Since I tend to race at night after my wife goes to bed, I almost always use headphones. I'm perfectly fine with adding a Amp/DAC for the setup and they don't need to have a mic as I am fine running an external mic. I'm just digging into this, but here is some of what I am looking into now. Imaging, and comfort are big factors for me. Originally I was thinking open back but it seems like there are also good closed back options like the Beyerdynamic MX300. I have also seen a lot of recommendations for the Artic Steel Series Pro wireless. I had not really been thinking wireless would give me the same sound but I don't know much.


Headphones:
Sennheiser HD600, HD598 HD 599
Audeze LCD-1 or LCD-2
HiFiMan Sundras
Beyerdynamic 1990, 770 or MX300
Grado?
Maybe even spring for some Focal Elex

AMP:
Schiit Magnius
Shiit Magi

DAC:
Schiit Modius
Schiid Modi

Maybe the Schiit Hel would work well for both but I kind of like the idea of a balance setup with the Magnius/Modius.

 

[Clover11]

Think I have kind of moved on from the Grado's since it sounds like they tend to sit on your ear instead of around your ear, which is not for me. I think I am also moving on from the Audeze LCD-1s, just seem a little compromised and like I would end up wanting to upgrade. I think I am also crossing off the Byerdynamic 770s which I think I would just go with the MMX300 if I go Byerdynamic.

Getting a little drawn to the Drop Focal Elex. I love Focal speakers, so maybe I am just swayed by that. Most of what they do is more then what I want to spend, but I could swing the Elex's. The Sundra's and the HD600 are also both looking strong right now.

 

[blekenbleu]

Sundra's and the HD600 are also both looking strong right now.

Sennheisers are for me comfortable; I have a size XL head.
They are not sound-isolating, though, depending on how far you race from sleeping spouse.
For isolation, I use Shure SRH840 or old AKG K 141 updated with Shure pads,
but long stints in those enclosed cans does promote ear sweat.

Practically, unless headphones have some significant distortions, tuning Windows audio
tonal balance with Equalizer APO helps compensate source and/or can deficiencies.
Although I did spring for a Chord Mojo to exploit an HD650, I consider Sennheisers easy to drive,
and my older HD590 series play fine with any USB audio interface tried.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Can't go wrong with HD650 with ample amping. Go balanced if you can.

 

[67JTM]

I use Beyerdynamic myself and really like them.
With open- Backed Headphones you get a slightly better Bass response, but they are not as quiet on the outside, if you know what I mean- for example, a Microphone can pick up quite a bit noise from them.
Closed Headphones sound a bit more 'dry' and have not as much Bass, but your wife won't hear you as much.
I would recommend the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro- if you just plug into your PC,buy the 4 Ohm Version.
The more Ohm they have, the quiter they are.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

From my experience closed headphones usually have more bass than open, it's much easier to implement it in closed speaker enclosure.

In order of personal sonic preferences:
Open:
- Senn HD800 (needs modding to remove some treble spike $$$)
- Beyer T1 (great details, but not the most balanced, and treble can be painful on some material $$$)
- Senn HD650 (not the most detailed around with infamous wool and a bit slow, but all things considered the most balanced and "correct" ones)

Closed:
- Fostex TH600 (good details, soundstage, and lots of bass $$$)
- ATH-W500 (superb details and mids but a bit lean in lows $$$)
- Sony MDR-7520 (great details and accuracy, true studio phones, soundstage is not as large as others)
- Sony MDR-1AM2 (great all rounders, jack of all trades, super light, and don't need amplification, good for portable use as well)

IEM:
IEMs are often overlooked but can work just as well if not better than full size phones.
For gaming I think Hybrid 1More Quad Driver with it's hard hitting bass is a very good candidate, it is not as detailed as say Logitech UE900s, those can surpass many full size phones in details department.
There is also very nice Smabat ST-10s Gold earbuds, you can find them fairly cheap on aliexpress, they have very nice balanced signature and are highly regarded among audiophiles, closely resemble HD650, may be just slightly leaner on bass.

Below is the list of phones I own or used to own. Feel free to ask about any specific one. Also stop by at head-fi.org, you may get much more qualified help there.

Headphones:
-------------------
HD800 (balanced, SuperDupont Resonator)
T1 (balanced)
HD650 (balanced)
ATH-W5000 (L3000 Pads)
TH600
MDR-7520
ATH-AD2000
ATH-ESW9
K271S
Sony MDR-1R (Dynamat Mod)
Sony MDR-1AM2
Ety-ER4S
ATH-CM700Ti
Logitech UE900s
1More Quad Driver
Smabat ST-10s Gold (150 Ohm)

Gone:
MrSpeakers Mad Dog 3.2
DT880 Premium Manufaktur (600 Ohm)
LCD-2.2 (Bamboo)
Denon AH-D5000 (MarkL Mod, Angle Pads, Cardas)
MDR-SA5000
HD595
MS2i
Ultrasone HFI-650
Ultrasone PL750
Denon AH-D950
Denon AH-D2000
DT250 (80 Ohm)
DT250 (250 Ohm)
DT880 Premium (250 Ohm)
DT770 Premium (250 Ohm)
DT770 Premium (600 Ohm)
DT48E (25 Ohm)
ATH-A900
ATH-ES7
JBL220
K702
Momentum
1More Triple Driver

 

[BillyBobSenna]

I have used the Massdrop HD 6XX. See review below. These are basically Sennheiser HD 650's for 1/2 the price ($200). They even have Sennheisser printed on the parts.

Massdrop HD 6XX

 

[Mr Latte]

Much audio is personal preference. Headphones can be about comfort, build quality, sonic character and of course soundstage. Sony’s MX3 or new MX4 are excellent wireless options and great for general usage with phone/tablets or using outdoors. Superb all-rounders.

Your coming from a gaming headset, so many options will give you improvements.

A headset not far off popular Sennheisser options like the HD600 but available at a bargain price on Amazon is the Phillips Fidellio X2HR/00 over ear. Available for under £125. Very comfy and excellent reviews. That set really surprised me and don’t think you’d get much else as good for so little money.

I’d recommend a good soundcard before spending on a DAC and the Creative X3 is a brilliant card with USB C and nice EQ options as well as allowing different EQ profiles for headphones or speakers.

 

[Clover11]

Wow, that is one heck of a list of really nice gear. I think I may reach out to get your thoughts on how things compare and scale up. You obviously have some experience. Maybe you can share you thoughts on my below line of thinking.

I really wish there was a way sample them for a while. It may be a little crazy, but I think I am going to order a few options that are kind of considered the more affordable versions of some different styles headphone to see what I like, then consider moving from there.

First, I think I am going to order a set of the Sennheiser HD6XX. They are based on the HD6 series set that everyone loves but only cost $220. They are and open back dynamic driver with a well known sound. Their big brother, the HD800S seems to be well loved for a huge detailed soundstage, which seems like it would be great for identifying where all the sounds are coming from.

I also think I am going to buy a set of the HiFiMan Sundara which go for $350 which are and open back planar magnetic that seem to be well reviewed and recommended for an planar magnetitic in this price bracket. I guess that planer magnetics do really well at sound separation, so they could be good for what we listen to. Their big brother that seems to be well loved is the HiFiMan Arya or the Audeze LDC-X.

I also want to try a set of closed back to see if I like that sound better but I'm not sure what to go with here yet. I am kind of thinking of trying a Beyerdynamic set like the MMX300 or the DT770 maybe the 1990. I don't know as much about closed backed or where a good starting point would be.

After being able to really test out the three different sets, I would like to narrow in on what I like and I will sell the other two sets. I then think I will probably try a nicer "big brother" version of whatever I end up liking best to see if that is worth it over what I start with.

 

[Clover11]

Much audio is personal preference. Headphones can be about comfort, build quality, sonic character and of course soundstage. Sony’s MX3 or new MX4 are excellent wireless options and great for general usage with phone/tablets or using outdoors. Superb all-rounders.

Your coming from a gaming headset, so many options will give you improvements.

A headset not far off popular Sennheisser options like the HD600 but available at a bargain price on Amazon is the Phillips Fidellio X2HR/00 over ear. Available for under £125. Very comfy and excellent reviews. That set really surprised me and don’t think you’d get much else as good for so little money.

I’d recommend a good soundcard before spending on a DAC and the Creative X3 is a brilliant card with USB C and nice EQ options as well as allowing different EQ profiles for headphones or speakers.

That Fidellio X2HR/00 is tempting at it's current price. I would certainly go with that over the new X3.

I'm going to go ahead and show my ignorance, why a Soundcard over a DAC?

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Wow, that is one heck of a list of really nice gear. I think I may reach out to get your thoughts on how things compare and scale up. You obviously have some experience. Maybe you can share you thoughts on my below line of thinking.

I really wish there was a way sample them for a while. It may be a little crazy, but I think I am going to order a few options that are kind of considered the more affordable versions of some different styles headphone to see what I like, then consider moving from there.

First, I think I am going to order a set of the Sennheiser HD6XX. They are based on the HD6 series set that everyone loves but only cost $220. They are and open back dynamic driver with a well known sound. Their big brother, the HD800S seems to be well loved for a huge detailed soundstage, which seems like it would be great for identifying where all the sounds are coming from.

I also think I am going to buy a set of the HiFiMan Sundara which go for $350 which are and open back planar magnetic that seem to be well reviewed and recommended for an planar magnetitic in this price bracket. I guess that planer magnetics do really well at sound separation, so they could be good for what we listen to. Their big brother that seems to be well loved is the HiFiMan Arya or the Audeze LDC-X.

I also want to try a set of closed back to see if I like that sound better but I'm not sure what to go with here yet. I am kind of thinking of trying a Beyerdynamic set like the MMX300 or the DT770 maybe the 1990. I don't know as much about closed backed or where a good starting point would be.

After being able to really test out the three different sets, I would like to narrow in on what I like and I will sell the other two sets. I then think I will probably try a nicer "big brother" version of whatever I end up liking best to see if that is worth it over what I start with.

HD650 or 600 have nothing in common with HD800, completely different technology and sound signature. Almost opposite, one is lush, warm, with subdued details and good for open phones bass, quite slow for electronic and rock but great for jazz and classical.
The other is fast, hyper detailed, leaner on bass, very technical, microscope into sound.
I don't own HifiMan but had some Mad Dogs planar before, based on my experience with them and reading Sundara reviews, they are almost HD650 signature with lesser soundstage.
I would not recommend DT770 as closed phones, there are better options around.
Usually the closed are the trickiest one. After trying a bunch I've found Sony MDR-7520 almost ideal as studio phones. My second, reasonable for starters pick would be Sony MDR-1AM2, at least they don't do anything horribly wrong, super light on the head (feather like) and extremely easy to drive.
Forget BT phones, these are not good, Windows BT audio is pretty bad, plus there is latency.
As far as source goes, don't bother with fancy sound cards, had a bunch of them, on board audio is always susceptible to some computer noise. They are fine for gaming, but fall short for critical listening.
USB DACs with async receiver chips are very good these days. Look at those. I am using Auralic Vega/Taurus stack that replaced Chord DAC64, but it's probably out of your price range, the other one is Yulong Sabre DA8, it's less fancy but has somewhat decent (not great) headamp.

And once again, I highly recommend head-fi.org if you want to get serious about your music and need qualified advise.

 

[Mr Latte]

That Fidellio X2HR/00 is tempting at it's current price. I would certainly go with that over the new X3.

I'm going to go ahead and show my ignorance, why a Soundcard over a DAC?

Sometimes you can get them even cheaper with Amazon Warehouse deals.
Plush comfort, no creaking like many cheap plastic headphones but with Amazon a very easy thing to return if it does not meet your own tastes.

Though you won't be wearing them outside (too big) and that's why the other recommendation I made with Sony MX3 or MX4 comes in. Excellent all-rounders and you do not need to use their Bluetooth with PC if you don't want to, as they also support a 3.5mm jack. Yet having the wireless functionality can be great for VR or not having to worry about cables getting in/out of the rig.

These though as headphones are great for using with phones etc, and being outside, traveling or just wandering around the house with the BT and noise canceling. So great for various uses and by far they get mostly positive reviews on their audio quality pleasing most people.

Why a good card over a DAC, well mainly because I assume your primary usage for this is still gaming and not necessarily specifically for music.

Audio preferences are personal and different DACs may suit different headphones but also different users' tastes. It can be a minefield and in some cases, you can spend quite a bit of money not knowing if the DAC will bring for you, much beneficial improvements or be a good value purchase or not.

Using a Soundcard/DAC combo like the X3 it offers improved sound with nice EQ options. It's also one of very few current soundcards that uses USB C, making it work with phones/tablets if you listen to music, etc a lot from those devices.

Use the EQ to suit your mood/preferences or listening material. A superb gaming soundcard offering both decent stereo, 7.1 virtual or full 7.1 speaker audio.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

That Fidellio X2HR/00 is tempting at it's current price.

Collection of reviews on these phones from head-fi.org. Most guys there are more critical when it comes to the sound of their cans.

Philips Fidelio X2 - Reviews

www.head-fi.org

And one more thing, on BT if you decide to explore that route. My personal view on this, but BT technology paired with phones may not offer the latest and greatest format and will probably make you headphones outdated as technology improves.
I've been using EarStudio ES100 MK2 with my wired phones, IEMs mostly. It also sports very good USB DAC, which sounds quite amazing for its size.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I got a pair of AKG 701 open back headphones a number of years back. They are very comfortable and have a good full range. I'd call them neutral/natural sounding. They have a tight bass range, which I like. I can't stand bass heavy headphones that sound muddy. There is a wide leather band on top and the earphones have very soft padded "muffs" around your ears. Since they are open backed they won't block out any noises from your rig.

I've used a couple USB DAC amplifiers over the years, and run them from my Oppo 105D which has a known
good high end headphone amplifier. They are not efficient headphones and won't run off a 1/8" notebook jack, but I think they sound very good.

I've not used many headphones. I have monitor speakers on my office wall and have leaned towards high end stereo systems vs wearing headphones.

What's funny is that they are priced at $449 at many places, but Amazon currently has them for $210. Assuming they are the real deal, that sounds like a deal. I was reading some comments saying that they used to be manufactured in Austria, but are now manufactured in China, so that might explain the pricing. Not sure.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

K701, yeah, they have clean, lean, plastic sound. Too analytical for my taste to last long but some people do like them.
Princes Leia look with them on is priceless.

 

[RCHeliguy]

K701, yeah, they have clean, lean, plastic sound. Too analytical for my taste to last long but some people do like them.
Princes Leia look with them on is priceless.

Given my taste for analytical Martin Logan electrostatic speakers with less distortion than my amplifier, it shouldn't be surprising that I lean towards a similar headphone.

To my ears many other high end popular headphones add too much color. To be fair most people like the sound of THD. Having resonant frequencies creates a sound that some call "fuller" or "richer".

My monitor speakers are of the richer fuller variety. The ribbon tweeters are clean but full. Some music does sound better with fuller speakers. It's rare that I don't like something on my ML's but they uncover so much that some music doesn't right. Imagine Dragon's Radioactive sounds much better with a lot of THD added.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Something was terribly wrong with their signature, anemic bass, and overall hollow, soulless sound. Plasticky is probably the most used word when people describing their signature. AKG had few retuned revision afterwards, may be some deficiencies were fixed, but they were the phones I'd reach for last when listening to any genre. Sold them in a month.
If you really like analytical but more correct sound, HD800 would definitely fit the bill. Everything else sounds off and quite pathetic after them.

EIDT: Just realized that I had K702, but they are pretty much the same thing as K701.

 

[markie44]

Something was terribly wrong with their signature, anemic bass, and overall hollow, soulless sound. Plasticky is probably the most used word when people describing their signature. AKG had few retuned revision afterwards, may be some deficiencies were fixed, but they were the phones I'd reach for last when listening to any genre. Sold them in a month.
If you really like analytical but more correct sound, HD800 would definitely fit the bill. Everything else sounds off and quite pathetic after them.

EIDT: Just realized that I had K702, but they are pretty much the same thing as K701.

How on earth do you know all the model numbers of that extensive list of headphones you have owned? I can only remember my last 2 - and they are the same brand!

 

[RCHeliguy]

EIDT: Just realized that I had K702, but they are pretty much the same thing as K701.

I've heard people tear apart speakers and headphones for too many years.

Some people love the 701, some hate it, some crazy individuals claim to have a love hate relationship and have owned multiple copies and then sold them. They are the nuttiest of the group.

Find something you like and be happy.

For all that my ML's are, there are many things they absolutely are not. The sound stage and imaging are absolutely amazing with your head in a vice. The frequency response in my listening room is fantastic and nearly perfectly flat from 24-20Hz until you stand up and the highs drop off. The 30 degree electrostatic membrane does not radiate up or down very much so you have many less reflections off the ceiling or floor, but it radiates out the back and you have to space them off the rear wall to get the waves coherent or at least pleasing. Sound traps and wall treatments are your friend

If there is such a thing as a finicky speaker, the ML's are it. They are amazingly detailed, and vocals are right there in space hanging in front of you like no other I've experienced, The high excursion woofers are very well mated and if you are fortunate to get constructive coupling with your floor they are very crisp and deep. My 3/4" maple flooring, nailed and glued to the subfloor are synergistic with them. I don't get the same response on my concrete floor in the basement.

All that said they are not as dynamic as many other speakers and I wouldn't recommend them for a media room. I run Definitive speakers and an SVC 4,000 peak Watt subwoofer down there that goes down to 12Hz with authority and shakes the walls of my house.

Just pick something you like, but you don't have to tear apart what others like to prove your "superiority" as an expert. I like my 701's just fine even though I have a 5 figure stereo, but that's me.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

How on earth do you know all the model numbers of that extensive list of headphones you have owned? I can only remember my last 2 - and they are the same brand!

I don't, just record them in file.