What are the popular series now?

[Brent Mills]

Thinking about giving it another go after a 2 year break and wondering 2 things.

• What are the popular series now? Back then , skippy, FR2.0 , porsche cup and GT3's were the popular series. Has that changed?
• Is the tyre model improved at all? I left because the over the limit handling just felt so wrong

 

[BrunoBæ]

Thinking about giving it another go after a 2 year break and wondering 2 things.

• Is the tyre model improved at all? I left because the over the limit handling just felt so wrong

Same reason for my leaving after 5+ years.
But hehe watch out before opening your wallet again because until you try the existing TM yourself you will probably be told that it is sooo much better (and more"realistic") than it has ever been.

 

[Mr.Mints_Taboo]

Same reason for my leaving after 5+ years.
But hehe watch out before opening your wallet again because until you try the existing TM yourself you will probably be told that it is sooo much better (and more"realistic") than it has ever been.

Not by me, he won't!
I went back for a month after a year break, and the Skip Barber felt the same as ever. I don't like having to drive just below the level all the time, but the alternative is predictably an unpredictable spin.

Dave K. is so obsessed with having a single tyre model that works on all cars, in all conditions, at all pressures, during all the heat cycles, on tarmac, grass, sand, and mud, that he seems to have lost sight of the fact that this is just a game, and he is unlikely to win any noble prizes for his outstanding work in the field of tyre simulation.

The online aspect of iRacing is superb (Race a Skippy, have a pee and a brew, then ready for the next Skippy race), but the cars handle noticeably differently to all the other "Closest thing to real racing" simulators I have tried. Are all the others flawed in the same way, or are Dave K. and the NTM Fanboys suffering from Emperor's New Clothes Syndrome?

I'll try it again when the AI is released into the wild, or another couple of months when the urge to "improve" my SR and IR becomes irresistible...unless the championship mode of ACC feeds that need for tangible progress first.

I don't know what it is, but the urge to "farm" iR and sR is strong. Too much Everquest 2 in my youth. (I'll just spend an hour harvesting and crafting before bedtime...)

The iRacing Forums are almost worth a tenner a month for me - but then they swallow me up in the black hole of debate and counter debate ("No - YOU are wrong!")

iRacing good.
NTM still bad.

 

[Mr.Mints_Taboo]

Short answer to the thread title however:
https://www.iracingstats.com/

 

[Brent Mills]

Thanks for all feedback and the link, good to see some stats. Yeh for me it was always a love / hate relationship because the competitive mutliplayer aspect is just ungodly good and I also have that urge to try get my IR as high as possible (never could stay above 2k very long. lol).
But then a spin that just feels all kinds of wrong would have me cursing and going back to RF2 just get the feeling of how a car should behave. (Not that I'm an expert or anything, just what feels right to me).

I think I'll try a month just for a dose of that competitive side again.

 

[BrunoBæ]

Dave K. is so obsessed with having a single tyre model that works on all cars, in all conditions, at all pressures, during all the heat cycles, on tarmac, grass, sand, and mud, that he seems to have lost sight of the fact that this is just a game, and he is unlikely to win any noble prizes for his outstanding work in the field of tyre simulation.

I must say that this is a much better description than my own.
Because I have often mentioned that he should be fired from iRacing and placed in an asylum - because then there was a possibility that iRacing (maybe) could create a tire model on level with rF2, Raceroom and ... did I forget some others?

 

[BrunoBæ]

When we talk about popularity I just checked how iRacing is doing lately.
Doesnt look specially good for my 2 former favorites in iRacing.
Classic Lotus Grand Prix Monza (1 / 1) : drivers per race (DPR/Starts). Average Drivers per Race.
And I cannot find my former 2nd favorite the Kamel GT series.
Probably because: Series with zero starts or drivers are omitted.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I'm picking up on these key issues for people.

1. Cost ( which either is an issue or not for a person)
2. The tire model
3. The ability to try out a track or car before buying it.
4. Not knowing which track/car combinations are popular at the moment, to help select tracks and cars that you can actually use.

Does that just about cover it?

 

[Mr.Mints_Taboo]

I'm picking up on these key issues for people.

1. Cost ( which either is an issue or not for a person)
2. The tire model
3. The ability to try out a track or car before buying it.
4. Not knowing which track/car combinations are popular at the moment, to help select tracks and cars that you can actually use.

Does that just about cover it?

I would alter the 4th issue slightly. There are quite a few cars that have such a limited user base as to be a viable option only to extreme enthusiasts/optimists hoping that the series suddenly gets popular.
There are several "free" cars and tracks, so you can always be assured of a race in an MX-5 or a Street Stock Oval racer. The Solstice runs in multi-class races and is either at "free" tracks, or possibly it is the majority of the time. The Spec Racer Ford is free, and is often at "free" tracks and every track introduced to a season remains on the schedule for 3 consecutive seasons before being rotated out. So you can run the SRF relatively cheaply. Warning: The SRF is a handful!
If you are splashing out on a three month + Sub then you wouldn't go far wrong splashing out on the Skip Barber: the races nearly always split, they are hourly, and again, many of the tracks on the schedule will be the "free" ones. Unlike the SRF, it is a relatively friendly car to drive.

I can't speak much about the Oval side of iRacing; I would like to get into it more, but there are so many tracks (and so many similar series) that the cost is more than I can swallow. (£5.00 per corner!*) Especially as so many of the oval venues are so similar - straights are a slightly different length, banking is a slightly different angle, maybe put a small kink in one of the straights. Yeah, I sound like an ignorant European.
For an american based company, I had expected more from the subscription to drag me into oval stuff.

*or £2.50 if you consider an oval track to have four corners; I don't.

I like iRacing, but currently not subbed. If I was faster, I wouldn't play anything else, but at the shallow end of the talent pool, the differences in laps times can easily be 5-10% between fastest and slowest - leading to lonely races in the middle of the pack (I can hit the middle because 1/3rd of the field are likely to push too hard and bin it on the first couple of laps.)

For reference, I am normally comfortable playing the likes of AC and rFactor at about 88% opponent skill level. Sometimes winning, sometimes outclassed, but normally able to race for a few laps.
If I could lift myself to about a 95% skill level in those games, iRacing would probably be much more enjoyable for me.

TLR Pretty much as you state it. If you wan't to race anything other than GT3 or MX-5, you are going to spend most of the week waiting for a single high SoF race (Strength of field when all the big boys and girls turn up to play.)
The good news is that 5 minutes on their forums will uncover when these races take place. And you will need that time for practice so that you can memorise when the car is going to oversteer/understeer - because with the current physics, if you wait to feel the slide, it's already too late.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Thanks for that!

What I'm gathering is that there seems to be a consensus that iRacing = closest to real racing
and rFactor2 = feels best racing and has AI's so you can practice easily.
AC seems to get a lot of traction on the forums here.

Meanwhile I'm living in Dirt Rally 1.0 world and have been playing some Rally Cross in both Dirt Rally and PC2.

For some reason I find it a lot more fun to drift around a track than to stay on the edge of adhesion. I suspect some of that may have to do with my skill level, but I every time I get on an asphalt track all I can think of is how many more laps before this is over. Granted I have PC2 set as simcade as it can be, no damage, helpful track lines to follow, etc etc..

Right now I'm leveling up all the cars through their setup, engine and weight reduction upgrades in Dirt Rally. I'm getting more comfortable with the various tracks and cars and I'm really enjoying the driving. Rally driving just feels good to me and the asphalt tracks haven't pulled at me yet, but I also don't know how I'll feel in a few months. Granted in a few months Dirt Rally 2.0 VR support will drop and that may keep me occupied for a while.

I guess I'm trying to think long term, because I've dropped some pretty serious coin on my rig and I'm hoping I don't get burnt out on Rally and have nothing after that grabbing my attention. Time will tell.

All that said I love how realistic my current driving experience is. The VR, motion, tactile, FFB, and quality of the pedals and other controls makes this an amazing experience.

 

[BrunoBæ]

For some reason I find it a lot more fun to drift around a track than to stay on the edge of adhesion. I suspect some of that may have to do with my skill level, but I every time I get on an asphalt track all I can think of is how many more laps before this is over.

An explanation for this could be your personal attitude/reaction when you feel overwhelmed by strong opposition.
But think about it this way:
All the guys in the popular series topsplits does practice and practice and practice - and feels good messing and messing with their personal setups.
You cant expect to compete with such guys if your attitude is more laid back and "I just want some casual fun".

Yeah and its even more complicated than this.
Because a lot of people turn (unconsciously) to this postulated laid back attitude BECAUSE they feel overwhelmed by a (too) strong opposition.

Advice: My only advice if you really want to change the situation is to focus on some decent/reasonable personal succes criterias in your virtual racing.
Do you really want to compete with the topguys - or can you get reasonable satisfaction by competing with the faster midfield guys?

CatsAreTheWorstDogs: Its excactly this criteria adjusting the guys in RL F1 does when they are talking about "Best of the rest".

 

[RCHeliguy]

Interesting take on my comments.

Please let me apologize for any comments that may sound negative about a hobby that many of you love dearly. I'm just doing recon looking at other areas I might pursue if I get bored with driving Rallys.

At this point in time I've not raced against any real people, just AI's in PC2, and within PC2 I can win. I've even turned the AI's up a bit. Not claiming I have any skill at all, just that it isn't about losing. The driving experience isn't compelling to me yet.

In Dirt Rally I mostly play the time trials and I can win there as well. Still no other real people involved, but I'm having a lot of fun driving on the dirt tracks. The driving experience is compelling for me and I keep coming back for more. I also play some Rally Cross in Dirt Rally and PC2 and I find that fun as well.

It's not about winning, it's about the driving experience. Sliding around in Rally and Rally Cross is fun for me right now. I haven't found that fun factor on a track yet. It just feels extremely repetitive and tedious. Lots of effort to shave a tenth of a second off a best time.

All that said, I have had many people tell me that racing against real people makes things more engaging, that personal rivalries drive people to improve and other things help make the experience more fun.

I don't care if I'm in the top of the pack. I'm just hoping that the driving is somehow more involving playing against real people. I also suspect that I don't have a full appreciation for everything that is involved and possibly with time I may come around.

I suspect I'll need to get tired of driving on dirt before jump in with both feet.

The other potential situation is that I get Rally out of my system, sell my rig and move on to the next hobby. I'm not trying to sound negative or doom and gloom. I just know my pattern with hobbies. I tend to get to a certain level of mastery and then find I hit a plateau and it stops being fun.

 

[BrunoBæ]

Im probably not the right one to discuss competing with AI cars.
Because I have never felt any involvement competing with the complete un-intelligent AI cars in any of the commercial sims.
And I admit that I have often smiled when a person describe how hard and interresting his latest "race" was against an AI Nicki Thiim.

At the moment Im using my sim hours competing with the other human drivers on Racerooms (electric) VW-ID Leaderboard.
And I can honestly tell that if I did know the other drivers on the LB was just some simple AI algoritms then all the fun would have stopped long time ago.

I think your thoughts about "racing against real people makes things more engaging" is spot on.
Be it on LB or in real time MP is only dependent of the different game/net possibilities.

CatsAreTheWorstDogs: When you say: It's not about winning, it's about the driving experience - then there was a reason I used the word "unconsciously" when I tried to describe how we are motivated (or de-motivated).

 

[RCHeliguy]

CatsAreTheWorstDogs: When you say: It's not about winning, it's about the driving experience - then there was a reason I used the word "unconsciously" when I tried to describe how we are motivated (or de-motivated).

Love that! I've often been fascinated by our subjective view of the world shaped by our experiences that colors everything. Anyone who thinks they have an objective view of the world is fooling themselves.

To be more specific, I love the varying terrain in the Rally games, going airborne, using the hand brake to slide around a corner and then catching myself with full throttle pulling away from a cliff and not knowing what is coming next and reacting based on instinct. That's one reason I'm worried about getting bored with it. I can see that I am starting to know each track well and they are becoming less challenging.

I love building things and as a result have a pretty cool rig.
I love technical challenges. Right now the Rally games feel like technical challenges with lots of real time adjustments based on how you land or slide. There is a reasonable amount of variation and fun from the first minute.

I'm trying to figure out where the technical challenges are on a track short of memorizing the track and when to brake and what gear to be in. That's where I'm thinking that the other people on the track are the challenge. However it seems that you need a certain skill level before you can really take part in that.

I have some friends in the iRacing community who live there almost to the exclusion of all else. They love it. That doesn't mean I will, but it's something to consider.

 

[BrunoBæ]

The reason I commented on the "unconscious" part of motivate/de-motivating is because I can often feel this thing is working in myself.
Like the socalled procrastinating (postponement or evasion of an act) if something isnt easy or dont correlate to ones councious self-perception.

Conserning your "I'm trying to figure out where the technical challenges are on a track short of memorizing the track and when to brake and what gear to be in. "
Then recently I discovered (hehe I was actually told) that in Racerooms leaderboards its actually possible to get another drivers racing line inclusive his brake and throttle points displayed in real time while you are driving.
I played around with it to actually get the real Nicki Thiims racing line + thr/br points shown.
Hehe they was not excactly as mine
The reason this is possible is because he does participate in Racerooms electric VW-ID leaderboard at the moment.
So eventhough I know this is an iRacing thread then this could maybe be a possibility for you.
Both Raceroom and participation is completely free.
Hehe this is not an add

 

[Mr.Mints_Taboo]

I can't vouch for the experience, but iRacing does now have rallyX and dirt ovals; these may provide the sliding AND multi-player experience you are looking for (if only subconsciously.)
I have tried the rallyX on iRacing and Pcars2. One is a lot of fun and makes me feel like I have some small degree of skill and control of the car, the other is iRacing. YMMV.
The dirt ovals on iRacing I really enjoyed (still not vouching though), I could drift around corners and avoid the walls most of the time - probably the only reason I didn't do more of it was my fear that it would further reduce my "skills" on tarmac!

A month's half price subscription on iRacing will cost between $6.50 and £2,000.00+

iRacing really is the Marmite of the sim community.
If Marmite were also laced with cocaine.

I'll tell you something I will vouch for though: Wreckfest.
I spent a few hours on that again last night, and it is a blast. Depending on where you live (or your skills with VPNs) you can try it on Steam and if after 90 mins (Check terms and conditions*) you can get a refund.

*It was 2 hours in the UK, but 90 mins gives me a bit of breathing room. I have returned precisely 1 game on Steam, and it was easy and painless.

 

[Mr.Mints_Taboo]

Hehe this is not an add

Should I also mention that I am neither affiliated with, nor paid by Bugbear or iRacing?

 

[RCHeliguy]

If Wreckfest supported VR I would definitely give it a spin. It does look like fun!

My rig is mobile and I don't have a screen on it.
https://www.racedepartment.com/thre...cockpit-with-motion-and-tactile-build.165289/

 

[Bobby Childs Jr]

As a hardcore iRacer, I enjoy the online competition and think the move to add AI is ridiculous - considering how painfully slow they are at releasing new content or updating existing content. As I don't run skippies I can't comment on the NTM7, other than to say it has been met with wide dislike. I get the impression iRacing wants to cover more forms of racing, but doesn't want to do the other things required to keep that racing relevant - and they are absolutely terrible at communicating to members what is and isn't to come or any reasoning behind such decisions. Popular tracks are woefully out of date; popular series aren't getting new cars or updates to existing cars. Rant incoming.

 

[Eckhart von Glan]

RCHeliguy, have people already told you iRacing has a pretty impressive dirt side to it, i.e. rally cross, dirt oval racing american style etc.? they are going to start with dirt trucks in three weeks. just saying. i never moved a car sideways in real life, but i enjoy it in iRacing (and i played hours of Dirt1 and Richard Burns and whatnot, so I'm not totally averse to rallying).