What is my next upgrade?

[deandsfsdfewsad]

I am looking into a new upgrade and cannot decide what my next choice should be... Listed below are my choices I have put together, further suggestions are also welcome:

• A new wheel Martin Ascher F28-SC (I only have a GT Style rim SimRacingBay BB PRO 32)
• Go into VR with the hyped HP REVERB G2 (my current monitor is a 60Hz 34inch ultrawide 1080P nothing fancy)
• Tactile - get 2-4 Buttkickers/ bass transducers and add additional feedback through my body
• Pedal upgrade Fanatec CSL Elite LC to HE Sprints or Mecca Cups...
• Aiologs handbrake/ sequential shifter (I don't really use a sequential much/ need a handbrake but they look good)

This is my rig as of current:

 

[NeoGrotesk]

Just my opinion...

If you're happy with the fanatec LC elites then keep them. Of not, the Sprints are fantastic. My elites started having issues and I got fed up, so I got the Sprints and they are really great. More solid and definitely a step up, but perhaps not clear 'night and day' difference though.

If you have a good pc and want immersion then VR is definitely the way to go. The G2 or valve index are the go to options. VR is by far the biggest immersive thing you can buy, but it's not for everyone and does have downsides.

If you don't have a good pc (or think you'll struggle to push vr to an acceptable level) and want immersion, then go for the tactile route. Either a buttkicker or several small dayton exciters (or a combination of both).

 

[stigs2cousin]

The PC Power question is valid. if it´s not ridicously overpowered for the 1080p/60hz screen VR will be a problem.
And you should find a way to testdrive VR for alonger race, other than the motion sickness issues there´s the "comfort" of having the hot and sweaty "helmet" on your face for hours at a time.
Thats why I opted for tripple screens instead.
This decision is quite personal, only a testdrive can give you the answer.

You yourself disqualified shifter/handbrake because you said "just for optics, I won´t use them."

Tactile feedback is quite interesting, I´m researching that topic for a month now.
There are some very interesting threads right on this page.
What I´ve learned so far:
To get usefull information for driving better the tactile equipment must be quite plentyfull, ergo expensive.
And it´s by no means plug and play. The threads here point out the difficulties with mounting and adjusting the hardware, have a good read.

So pedals:

If your completely pleased with your current solution, stick with it.
On the other hand ther´s a wide consent that pedals are the most import equipment according to consistency.
I personally find a stiff pedal easier to modulate, especially when releasing into the corner.
( Looking at you, Heusinkveld Ultimate).
But I´m to cheap to buy them, so i´ll try to find a way to add
hydraulic dampening to my Frankenstein TM T3PA pros.
(Which of course have a rather stiff loadcell.)

Final thoughts:

It depends on your goals, do want sheer performance in online races or do you want just more immersion??

MFG Carsten

 

[GaryM05]

I would say VR if your PC can handle it (though agree with others that ideally you should try it first if at all possible). Otherwise, I'd say tactile...even a single shaker will make your rig come alive. 4 is great if possible, but the biggest jump comes from adding just your first shaker.

 

[chillil123]

Second vote for VR. Your jaw will drop the first time you try it. I would start assembling the parts for an SFX100 before I do transducers. I stopped using my transducers after I put a sfx100 together.

 

[deandsfsdfewsad]

Interesting comments, I am content with the pedals they are okay for what they are, I may keep until they break.

PC wise it's not the fastest but more than adequate with a 2080ti and 3900x + 32GB RAM 3600MHz CL 17, the G2 seems to need the latest and greatest but I have seen some guys using a 1080ti with success.

Regarding the tactile approach, I definitely agree it's not so turnkey and requires some thought and experimentation, I built and designed the 8020 rig so I'm not massively worried about that, I would look to get just 2 bass shakers to begin with to keep it simpler, one for my seat and one for my pedals. I have concerns about noise isolation with the apartment below.

SFX100 would be an amazing project to get into but I don't think I'm quite ready for a setup of that magnitude quite yet, I think motion will be the last item I will add to my rig in time to come due to the further complexities and size.

 

[GaryM05]

With that PC, I would go VR. You might not be able to run a G2 the way you'd want, but I run a G1 just fine with a similar PC and a 1080Ti. Maybe a G1, Rift S, etc would be a good/affordable option to try and see how you like it.

 

[deandsfsdfewsad]

So I decided to get HP Reverb G2, VR is epic, I definitely cannot run it to the max but I don't think even an rtx 3090 OC'd to the max would, in some way it's a good thing as when I upgrade my graphics cards to the 4000 series it'll be a nice graphics boost without needing a new headset or monitor etc. I think I will save a bit before doing tactile next!

I was anxious about getting VR motion sickness but not at all, I only get a bit queasy if the frame rate drops very low to being unplayable, I am quite young still so I think that helped

 

[RacingMat]

I would advice you the following:
once you got loadcell brake pedal, Direct Drive wheel, I think that you could find high value
- with a belt tensionner (really cheap)
https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/2dof-harness-tensionner-with-fly-ptmover.194331/ that will help for immersion and for braking precision.
- a tactile setup buttkicker (more expensive)
- wind simulator (nice with a hot VR headset) (cheap)

 

[St3fan]

Interesting comments, I am content with the pedals they are okay for what they are, I may keep until they break.

I was very happy with my stock CSP V3i (no BPK, damper on brake) and thought I would keep them until they break, until I tried Heusinkveld Ultimate pedals at a friend's place.

VR is great choice for upgrade. The original rig picture can definitely use some FOV upgrade.

 

[blekenbleu]

- a tactile setup buttkicker (more expensive)

Using motherboard surround audio outputs, a garage sale surround receiver
and 4 Dayton pucks in a seat cushion (AKA SRS ShakeSeat) and SimHub ShakeIt,
useful (if not massively impressive) tactile feedback can be had for < US$200.

 

[deandsfsdfewsad]

I would advice you the following:
once you got loadcell brake pedal, Direct Drive wheel, I think that you could find high value
- with a belt tensionner (really cheap)
https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/2dof-harness-tensionner-with-fly-ptmover.194331/ that will help for immersion and for braking precision.
- a tactile setup buttkicker (more expensive)
- wind simulator (nice with a hot VR headset) (cheap)

I like the look of your belt tensioner that looks like it could provide some useful feedback, what software did you use for it, is it Simhub?

 

[deandsfsdfewsad]

Using motherboard surround audio outputs, a garage sale surround receiver
and 4 Dayton pucks in a seat cushion (AKA SRS ShakeSeat) and SimHub ShakeIt,
useful (if not massively impressive) tactile feedback can be had for < US$200.

I may get four exciters to start and expand with a Mini LFE for my seat

 

[blekenbleu]

I like the look of your belt tensioner that looks like it could provide some useful feedback,
what software did you use for it, is it Simhub?

Yes. All credit to RacingMat for proving that hobby servos would suffice.
I fully agree that, after FFB and load cell brake,
belt tensioner is most useful modest sim enhancement,
and I was able to quickly learn to exploit its feedback.
Servos are a bit noisy, even when just hanging between strap sections,
so better if you wear headphones. Powering servos with nearer 8 than 5 Volts also helps.
SimHub Arduino support does not include PWM for servos,
so a quite simple custom Arduino sketch is driven by a SimHub Custom Serial profile.

I may get four exciters to start and expand with a Mini LFE for my seat

Most exciters are relatively thick and small diameter, which would be uncomfortable to sit on.
Dayton pucks are relatively flat. I suspect that exciters feeding thru even a racing shell seat
would be unable to provide the detailed wheel slip tactile feedback of pucks thru thin foam padding.
On the other hand, for entertainment and "immersion", stronger tactile is certainly popular.

 

[deandsfsdfewsad]

Yes. All credit to RacingMat for proving that hobby servos would suffice.
I fully agree that, after FFB and load cell brake,
belt tensioner is most useful modest sim enhancement,
and I was able to quickly learn to exploit its feedback.
Servos are a bit noisy, even when just hanging between strap sections,
so better if you wear headphones. Powering servos with nearer 8 than 5 Volts also helps.
SimHub Arduino support does not include PWM for servos,
so a quite simple custom Arduino sketch is driven by a SimHub Custom Serial profile.

Most exciters are relatively thick and small diameter, which would be uncomfortable to sit on.
Dayton pucks are relatively flat. I suspect that exciters feeding thru even a racing shell seat
would be unable to provide the detailed wheel slip tactile feedback of pucks thru thin foam padding.
On the other hand, for entertainment and "immersion", stronger tactile is certainly popular.

I was thinking of the dayton puck ones using the 3M adhesive to the composite shell, I would not want to sit on the exciters for sure

 

[blekenbleu]

I was thinking of the dayton puck ones using the 3M adhesive to the composite shell

I modified SRS' ShakeSeat by filling between pucks with EVA foam from interlocking floor mats:

 

[stigs2cousin]

Using motherboard surround audio outputs, a garage sale surround receiver
and 4 Dayton pucks in a seat cushion (AKA SRS ShakeSeat) and SimHub ShakeIt,
useful (if not massively impressive) tactile feedback can be had for < US$200.

I´ve just finished a build like that:

USB soundcard because I drive 5.1 audio most of the time

AV Receiver i had standing around

Two exciters DAEX32EP4 at throttle and brake (wheelspin/wheelock)
one Aurasound AST-2B4 under the seat pan (gearshift and road impact)
and one Dayton puck in the backrest ( gearshift and RPM)

Most beneficial effects are wheelspin and wheellock cues because they help to find the right brake/excelerator position fast.
Road impact reinforces the feel for bumps etc ( T6 brake ON the bump and with positioning the car on the curbs)
RPM is nice in idle, then mutes and comes on again at 90% RPM ( shift NOW!)
Gearshift impulse is only in AC, because you can put the car in gear only when 3 of 6 starting lights are on. If you pull the lever too early you try to start in neutral
For the rest of the time it´s just added immersion.

As i had cables and materials for fabricating the brackets for the exciters at home and the receiver was catching dust I had to buy stuff for 220€.
But you can buy useable receivers ( analog 5.1/7.1 inputs!!) for around 80€ on EBAY Kleinanzeigen.
(Craigslist for the Americans)
They are from around 2005-2010 so mostly obsolete for modern AV purposes. watchout, digital outputs are castrated to two channels, that mistake i made myself)

MFG Carsten

 

[blekenbleu]

RPM is nice in idle

AC for me no longer provides RPM idle output when parked in pits, only when moving...
is there some (e.g Content Manager, CSP) setting which changed this?

 

[stigs2cousin]

AC for me no longer provides RPM idle output when parked in pits, only when moving...
is there some (e.g Content Manager, CSP) setting which changed this?

I have no idea

For me it works in menue and pit.
If there is engine sound there´s RPM vibration.
I have the response curve cut to vibrate between 5-20% rpm and 90% up.

So i have the immersion when idling and the "shift now" cue when reching the rev limiter.

MFG Carsten

 

[blekenbleu]

For me it works in menu and pit.

I'm jealous (and puzzled).