AMS 2 FFB Discussion

[Manuel Staedel]

I just tested all settings,
RAW, informative, imersive, more FFB, lower FFB, LowForceBoost 0 40 80...
What I found was the same FFB like in pCARS2, the same damage jolt effekts, when you driving on small bumps, the over powered force, when the car are oversteering, the les details about the rear axle.
It's for me, the biggest disappointment in the year.
You don't beleive me?
Please take a seat in the StockCar or the Falcon V8, starting in Spielberg with clear wather in both games.
The detailed, RAW, real and comprehensible FFB, you are only get in AMS1. The same like rFactor2, but much more heavyer.
In rF² you feel the gene of rF². It's not like AMS but near of it.

AMS2-Beta is for me pCARS2 and i am realy sad, because my hope was realy big. So many people say "Stop! It's pCARS2! You should not beleve that it can be better!" But i say, "No, that are not SMS, they are Reiza Studios,, they have good guys, the have got Nils and he knows what he do."

What shuld i say?
I am realy sad and hopeless because that pCARS2-feeling will be not gone after the final release. If that be possible, than only with deleting it and copy paste from AMS1.
But what i know now, when you want to say, "Shut up and take my money!" Think before it. It's funny but expensive some times.

Best wiches from Germany, Manuel

I just testet the Ultima, OldStock, AJR... All the same. No Reiza-Feeling.
Kart and Caterham too. Are the 310HP Caterham damage? More than 170km/h not possible an Spielberg.

Btw.:
I am using the SimuCUBE without any damping or filterring.
But, AMS1 feels grate, too with the G27.

 

[basic86]

The FFB has nothing to do with PCARS 2, both are night and day differences. If they feel the same to you, then maybe you have an issue with your wheel compatibility with AMS2, just like Reiza guy pointed out. I can smell the iRacing/ACC fanboys in here

EDIT: In saying that, I've found a couple of cars in AMS2 that does feel like PCars 2 FFB-wise, like the Formula Ultimate that seems to share the same FFB feel as the Indycars in PCars 2 - We're still in version 0.8 beta, so still WIP.
However, all of the Formula Classic cars have amazing FFB, it's been a blast driving them.

 

[Case_]

When did Reiza recommend starting with 50% gain on a G920? And 10-20% gain on a DD wheel?

On non-DD wheels, gain should always be set as high as you can go without clipping (which on average in AMS2 seems to be somewhere in the 80% ballpark - regardless of wheel, because this isn't affected by your wheel or its torque capability). Then adjust the strength to your liking directly on your wheel or in its control panel. That's generally how FFB should always be adjusted on non-DD wheels (it gets a bit more complicated with DD wheels), and AMS2 is no exception to this.

 

[Stakanov]

When did Reiza recommend starting with 50% gain on a G920? And 10-20% gain on a DD wheel?

On non-DD wheels, gain should always be set as high as you can go without clipping (which on average in AMS2 seems to be somewhere in the 80% ballpark - regardless of wheel, because this isn't affected by your wheel or its torque capability). Then adjust the strength to your liking directly on your wheel or in its control panel. That's generally how FFB should always be adjusted on non-DD wheels (it gets a bit more complicated with DD wheels), and AMS2 is no exception to this.

in the official forum, when the first RC came out, many users complained in a very energetic way about the ffb, about weight shifting, cornering and locking of the wheels as soon as the brake was touched ... many threatened early the return of the sums spent ... many posts have been canceled but before some users and moderators of the forum advised this, it is not a Reyza certified guide, they are just some advice that was given to remedy the problems that people complained about ... regardless I tried to avoid clipping my G920 starting from a GAIN value of 100 as you say (but also 80 and zeroing all the other values) and it is currently impossible so I assumed they were right ... in fact, doing as I have already written, I solved many problems ... if in future releases it should change I would have no problem returning to higher values ... who has a g25, g27, g29 or a g920, can try, if not like AMEN ... today I had fun with these settings whitout clipping and this is what matters ... I'm sure Reyza will update the game very often ( as it did with AMS1) and will gradually improve all the aspects criticized today ...

PS: know that in many other games I also almost always use gain at 100

EDIT:
1) In the official site Reyza it is indicated that "The default 100% setting has some clipping built-in, specially on high downforce vehicles as in these the steering column torque can easily exceed 30Nm when car is under heavy load in a fast corners, while front tires are fully gripping and self-aligning torque is very high.
For Direct Drive wheels, it is recommended to set gain around 40-50%. This has thus far been tested mostly on a Fanatec DD1 base. Stronger wheels may use even lower Gain values." It is also indicated the other value with higher value of LFB for LG2x ....

Automobilista 2 Force Feedback - Overview & Recommendations

Automobilista 2 features a rather simple but highly accurate FFB system, very similar to the RealFeel system used in its predecessor AMS1 - in both...

forum.reizastudios.com

2) In another discussion you can verify that almost all owners of DD and OSW use very low gain values ... almost never more than 30-40 with lower LFB ...

FFB Settings

Can someone explain to me which parameter stands for what?

forum.reizastudios.com

 

[Lars Hansen]

I'm starting to get the feeling that maybe they should've waited a bit longer before launching EA.
When something as fundamental as FFB causes such polarization, there's something seriously wrong.
Seems like there's a 50/50 split between the number of people who absolutely love the FFB, and those who simply can't get it to work no matter what they do.

And before someone else says it, yes I know. Early Access. Expect bugs.
Which is all very well and good, but were talking about a basic foundation of every racing-sim.

What truly puzzles me is that AMS had functional FFB, even in the beta.
Granted, some said it was fantastic, while others merely thought is was functional. But I don't think I've ever heard anyone claiming it was outright bad.
So how did they screw this up so badly?

 

[Leonardo Chaves]

Cars that have a good amount of body roll are great!!!!
Higher end formulas... need a little fine tuning.

 

[HI-tauer]

Thrustmaster T-GT here - basically T500rs with more torque.

Last night I started to mess around the custom ffb file as I couldnt find my liking from the default. I couldnt get braking/understeering feel intuitive enough and also found the engine fx and texture fx overpowering other weak forces. Ended up turning down engine/tx multipliers and up many of the scruf values or what ever they were called - the forces descriped as more from tire grip than suspension. Then I made a revelation (for my goals). I figured I try and reverse the scruf forces. As they are in default, they give you a great feel of weight by centering / making the wheel heavier under braking. When I made gain negative, it seems braking and weight is pulling wheel out - to the direction of the momentum/g-force. Now I feel like im actually battling the g-forces to keep the car in racing line.

Now I have to make few points here. This might not be realistic - I couldnt quite make up my mind how this should be in real life, and Im not sure Im not making up things as it was 3am at this point. And as always - Im aiming for intuitive driving and immersion - not realistic steering forces.

About AMS2 ffb in general. As they say from developer, it seems to be fairly simple and based on suspension links and steering column forces rather than grip/friction/tire. Due to this theres also a lot of forces combined in to each setting and the custom ffb file looks to have maybe just 1/3 of adjustable values compared to that of Pcars 2.

 

[UMC 22]

I'm starting to get the feeling that maybe they should've waited a bit longer before launching EA.
When something as fundamental as FFB causes such polarization, there's something seriously wrong.
Seems like there's a 50/50 split between the number of people who absolutely love the FFB, and those who simply can't get it to work no matter what they do.

And before someone else says it, yes I know. Early Access. Expect bugs.
Which is all very well and good, but were talking about a basic foundation of every racing-sim.

What truly puzzles me is that AMS had functional FFB, even in the beta.
Granted, some said it was fantastic, while others merely thought is was functional. But I don't think I've ever heard anyone claiming it was outright bad.
So how did they screw this up so badly?

I don't really understand your post, to be honest. You said yourself that the community is polarised 50/50 so how do you consider that "screwed up so badly"? I also don't believe forums are a good representation of how a community feels in the grand scheme of things. People are always quicker to complain than compliment, and there will always be people ready to defend a feature if they feel it's fine as-is... the perception is 50/50. What about all those who never post on a forum like this, whether they like a feature or not?

I also don't think this "debate" is at all unusual or restricted to AMS 2's EA. Take a look on any "finished" sim's forum... AC, R3E, AMS, ACC... and you'll find topics where people are discussing the FFB, with the exact same mix of people saying it's crap and people saying its the best. So it's nothing new. FFB is totally subjective and down to personal preference, so there will always be constant debate on how it "should" and "should not" feel.

 

[pumo]

have anyone tested PC2 custom settings like Christiaans in AMS2 ?

Christiaan's Pure FFB (Custom pCARS2 FFB File)

LATEST RELEASE: Christiaan's Pure FFB v2.3 (Date 12-09-2020) UPDATE: FILES AND SUPPORT MOVED! After recent events I decided to remove my files and support from this forum over to Race Department that in case of a ban I would still be in control of my own stuff. I also included a...

forum.projectcarsgame.com

 

[HI-tauer]

I'm starting to get the feeling that maybe they should've waited a bit longer before launching EA.
When something as fundamental as FFB causes such polarization, there's something seriously wrong.
Seems like there's a 50/50 split between the number of people who absolutely love the FFB, and those who simply can't get it to work no matter what they do.

And before someone else says it, yes I know. Early Access. Expect bugs.
Which is all very well and good, but were talking about a basic foundation of every racing-sim.

What truly puzzles me is that AMS had functional FFB, even in the beta.
Granted, some said it was fantastic, while others merely thought is was functional. But I don't think I've ever heard anyone claiming it was outright bad.
So how did they screw this up so badly?

More I experience with the ffb, more I think its all there. All the forces - feedback and physics work. Its just such a different approach going with linkage/column forces vs the usual informative friction and weight transfer. I think the problem here is that ffb is very much a matter of taste, and as it is their system doesnt give detailed enough settings to suite different tastes. AND car balances seem to still be a mess as different cars feel like different physics due to ffb. Maybe they are strugling to measure steering/suspension linkage forces from the physics engine build around friction multipliers..

 

[HI-tauer]

have anyone tested PC2 custom settings like Christiaans in AMS2 ?

Christiaan's Pure FFB (Custom pCARS2 FFB File)

LATEST RELEASE: Christiaan's Pure FFB v2.3 (Date 12-09-2020) UPDATE: FILES AND SUPPORT MOVED! After recent events I decided to remove my files and support from this forum over to Race Department that in case of a ban I would still be in control of my own stuff. I also included a...

forum.projectcarsgame.com

I did last night - doesnt work due to vastly different amount of values

 

[Lars Hansen]

You said yourself that the community is polarised 50/50 so how do you consider that "screwed up so badly"?

I also said that AMS had functional FFB even in the beta. Which makes me wonder why AMS2 is so hit'n'miss.
Compared to the launch of AMS, this is kind of a mess.

What about all those who never post on a forum like this, whether they like a feature or not?

True, there might be untold millions currently celebrating AMS2 as the greatest sim ever.
But I can only base my statements on what I see.

I also don't think this "debate" is at all unusual or restricted to AMS 2's EA. Take a look on any "finished" sim's forum... AC, R3E, AMS, ACC... and you'll find topics where people are discussing the FFB, with the exact same mix of people saying it's crap and people saying its the best. So it's nothing new. FFB is totally subjective and down to personal preference, so there will always be constant debate on how it "should" and "should not" feel.

True, to a point. FFB is undoubtedly subjective, and the discussion will be ongoing, be it in AMS2 or any other sim.
But in this case, we're talking about people not having FFB in the first place, or at least nothing usable.
I mean, I'm one of them. I have no connection whatsoever with the car, despite trying just about every combination of the sliders I can think of.
No effects from kerbs, no idea if I'm locking the wheels, horrendous mid-corner snap-oversteer, weird rumblings that I'm completely clueless how to interpret, brakes that are either on or off. The list goes on and on.
And yet I can jump into AMS with the same combo, and everything is absolutely fine.
Hell, I get more informative FFB in PC2 than I currently do in AMS2, and that's not really something to aspire to.
And judging by the posts both here and on Reizas forum, I don't seem to be alone in this predicament.

 

[UMC 22]

I also said that AMS had functional FFB even in the beta.

FFB which was just as subjective as in any other sim. Not everybody thought AMS was perfect or even good, so how is it really any different in the case of AMS 2? Or [insert sim here]?

True, to a point. FFB is undoubtedly subjective, and the discussion will be ongoing, be it in AMS2 or any other sim.

Which is exactly my point. For you AMS 2 FFB is useless and doesn't give you the feel you need to drive a simulated car. Many people say the same about the FFB in AC or R3E. For me the AMS 2 FFB feels very good, generally on par of better than in other sims I play. Many people say the same about AC or R3E.

All I'm saying is that everything you said is your personal view of the FFB based on your own wants and needs. The FFB not suiting you doesn't make it inherently "broken". I'm not saying it's perfect right now and the devs themselves say they're still working on it, but there are just as many people who like the FFB now as there are those who don't.

 

[BazzaLB]

have anyone tested PC2 custom settings like Christiaans in AMS2 ?

Christiaan's Pure FFB (Custom pCARS2 FFB File)

LATEST RELEASE: Christiaan's Pure FFB v2.3 (Date 12-09-2020) UPDATE: FILES AND SUPPORT MOVED! After recent events I decided to remove my files and support from this forum over to Race Department that in case of a ban I would still be in control of my own stuff. I also included a...

forum.projectcarsgame.com

Not going to work. According the Christiaan in that very thread...

I am afraid not. Apart from the FX stuff being nearly identical to pCARS 2 they seemed to have ripped out completely the tyre forces and rack related stuff. As in that it was completely deleted from the code of the game engine.

I already tried my file in AMS2 and see if any of the key components would still work by bringing it back to the bare minimum. Sadly I hate to inform everyone that there is no way anything related to pCARS 2 will work in AMS2 apart from those FX related parameters. Which apart from loaning Jack Spade's I personally left unaltered.

… rest of response snipped ...

Having said that, I am quite happy with the FFB thus far on my Fanatec CSW v1.

 

[Lars Hansen]

All I'm saying is that everything you said is your personal view of the FFB based on your own wants and needs. The FFB not suiting you doesn't make it inherently "broken". I'm not saying it's perfect right now and the devs themselves say they're still working on it, but there are just as many people who like the FFB now as there are those who don't.

No, my personal view would be something like that I don't like the AC FFB.
Which I don't. Might simply be too different from other sims for me to really click with it.
That's not the same as saying it doesn't work. It does tell me what the car is doing, I just don't care for HOW it's telling me.

AMS2 doesn't tell me anything. At all.
It's not a question of whether or not I like the way I get the information, the problem is that I'm not getting any.
And again, judging by the number of posts on the subjects, and the number of FFB 'guides' on YT, I'm not really alone in this regard.

I'm not oblivious to the fact that this is a beta.
I don't mind the velcro-walls, the icy grass or the whacky AI. This is all stuff that happens in all EAs.
But the Reiza guide to FFB is "start from 50/50/50 and then tune to your liking".
Er, okay.
That means three different sliders with positions from 1 to 100. Even assuming that we adjust in increments of ten, that leaves 1,000 possible combinations.
Say a couple of laps to test each iteration, and we're looking at possibly 2,000 laps just to get the FFB working as intended.

Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE for it to work.
A sim with Madness graphics and Reiza physics/FFB would be amazing.
Anyone got a FFB setup for a T500 that they think is good, I'll happily try it out.
But right now all AMS2 is bringing me is copious amounts of frustration.

 

[UMC 22]

You seem to be misunderstanding the different between personal preference and fact, to be perfectly honest.

AMS2 doesn't tell me anything. At all.

Whereas it tells me plenty, so the reality is that it doesn't work for you. That isn't the case for everybody, and therefore it isn't inherently "broken" as you're making out. FYI, AC's FFB doesn't work for me and I don't see how anyone gets on with it, yet I don't claim that it's broken because it clearly works for some people. Just like AMS 2's FFB in this case.

Anyway, we're clearly never going to agree on what constitutes preference and fact, so I think I'll bid this discussion farewell.

 

[scoobysi]

When I read these discussions it brings back memories of PCars, having to continually adjust FFB for different cars and mess around with settings files, the main reason I never bought PCars2 and so far what is preventing me buying AMS2.

I don’t really understand why some don’t like ACC FFB, it feels realistic to me but all I’m really looking for is FFB that works and feels consistent out of the box for all cars (which AC had). GT Sport is also fine as it’s consistent and once I have settings to my liking I don’t need to alter for different cars/classes.

 

[Cote Dazur]

When I read these discussions it brings back memories of PCars, having to continually adjust FFB for different cars and mess around with settings files, the main reason I never bought PCars2 and so far what is preventing me buying AMS2.

I understand your concerns, the situation is a little confusing at the moment. If I can help clarifying this for you, this is my take on it.

First let’s be clear, Using Christiaan’s Pure FFB files, I am ok driving some content in PCars2, but to be honest, it is more because the graphics in VR is very good, the content is interesting and lastly the driving in some content is OK, never great for me, but good enough to keep me entertained.

Second, since we only had access to AMS 2 for a few days, every one is concentrating on how it feels both for physic and ffb, instead of trying to have fun driving. We are all trying to adjust it to get to something we like, but it is not because it is wrong, as it was at the beginning with PCars2. Also it is not like PCars2, were you needed to be half cook and half musician to try to understand what the hell all the numerous adjustments were about, with none giving anything good anyway. In AMS 2 you only have gain to worry about, then you might want to play with low force and FX, but you don’t even have too.

Already at this very early stage, AMS 2 looks better and drive way better than PCars2. You may want to wait, that is OK, but not on the account that AMS2 is anything like PCars2, they are 2 totally different SIM using the same engine as a base.

I was not a AMS 1 user because I only drive in VR, so I cannot say how it compare and I don’t care. What I know is that Reiza reputation for knowing a thing or two about simulation seems to me totally justified, even if all I have to evaluate is an early access game. I can already see myself spending a significant amount of my SIM seating time using the AMS 2 software.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

True, there might be untold millions currently celebrating AMS2 as the greatest sim ever.
But I can only base my statements on what I see.

300 average, 600 peak, not millions, or even a thousands. https://steamcharts.com/app/1066890#All
Still early days and not enough content to keep people occupied for long.
Hope it won't be another AMS everyone so loved talking about but not playing?

 

[Case_]

in the official forum, when the first RC came out, many users complained in a very energetic way about the ffb, about weight shifting, cornering and locking of the wheels as soon as the brake was touched ... many threatened early the return of the sums spent ... many posts have been canceled but before some users and moderators of the forum advised this, it is not a Reyza certified guide, they are just some advice that was given to remedy the problems that people complained about ...

So Reiza didn't actually recommend starting with 50% on G29. Gotcha.

 

[Andrew696]

I'm really enjoying AMS2, really promising under all aspects, but I guess there's something wrong with my G29:

I can't feel nothing when I hit curbs... vibrations also, nothing. I guess there's something wrong with my drivers (using latest "G HUB"), is it normal?

I want to try to install the old Logitech Profiler in order to apply recommended settings, can you tell me which version I have to download here? ftp://ftp.logitech.com/pub/techsupport/gaming/

Thanks in advance.