Community Question | FFB or No FFB?

[2112]

I don't go with no FFB but I do not like to have tons of input in the wheel. I will usually set FFB at a level that feels the same as my daily driver.

I found that if I set the FFB too high (beyond the obvious clipping) I cannot turn in as easily nor can I catch a wobble as easily. If I set the FFB too low I tend to oversteer.

 

[Ardylicious]

Reminds me of my Quake 2 days when people played with reducing virtually every graphical fidelity to get the fastest ping. I have seen settings by competitive players with increased smoothing and less to virtually no FFB on the grass, road and curbs. Flaws aside i am single player rfactor 2 player so i guess FFB for me. Greater immersion.

Makes me question if there is a market for low force feedback wheels than a 20nm direct drive?

 

[Mekonrider]

I didn't invest in VR and fast cards to not also be immersed at the wheel. Tbh I think I would drop the VR over the FFB I had to chose.

 

[BP]

My philosophy is similar as @2112 above:, strong enough for countersteer to help correct the car, weak enough to not be overpowered when turning...which is a pretty narrow range so I need to start lifting weights lol. No FFB is not an option.

Paul must be typing up some other stories and needed a silly article to "keep us busy" and buy him time, as we all know we'll argue over ANYTHING

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

One of the nicest wheels I have ever tried was the Virtual Performance Parts (VPP) wheel which had ... no forcefeedback...

Of course FFB is more immersive but does it speed you up? I doubt it. I think as it a calculated effect it always comes a millisecond later than it happens on the virtual track. For example if you hit a bump in the road you will never feel it in 100% real time. For the absolute aliens this millisecond might be crucial in their hotlap or race as all these milliseconds might result in a tenth after a lap.

I think there might be good arguments to race without ffb if you are trying to maximize your speed. I have personally been passed that stage for a long time and I very much prefer FFB for the immersion.

 

[bgil66]

Who developed the first force feedback wheel for games? [yeah yeah I could have googled it but need some interaction]

 

[Brent Mills]

Some argue that the earth is flat, which doesn't make it a valid base of a discussion.

Some argue that there is indeed a Santa Clause and that is how they magically receive their presents, neatly arranged under a tree, …. well we all do grow up at some point.

Some argue …

In news media this is what is called the symptoms of a slow news day.
Isn't that Bell guy announcing anything news worthy?
Isn't Studio123 having a new report of ongoing development announcements?
Hasn't any studio released any game update that can be picked apart by opposing tribes of different video games in thorough fashion?

Anything?

From the top of my head, there is this Aussie guy having recently built a triple screen rig with triple 65" 4K screens with some interesting input.
There has been a 9h race at Kyalami.
There are more and more and more interesting racing leagues organizing more and more professionally run racing leagues and endurance racing events.
There has been the SRO Asia competition with ACC with some seriously good racing.
There has been another fresh build of the Custom Shaders Patch with a rainFX release that actually enables full weather in AC in multiplayer sessions - a very interesting preview of what is about to come to the general public.
There have been a couple of interesting recently released mods, tracks and cars for AC (where are the regular Best Mods / Editors choice mod reports on RD?).
There are a ton of different reasons to report about sim racing related events and developments related to current news with many countries around the planet under yet even stricter Covid related measures.
There is the long Christmas holidays coming up and plenty of reasons NOW (not in 1 or two weeks) to write up articles about simracing related Christmas present ideas, Christmas related sim racing events and developments.

Why waste precious space on the top page for a simracing etherial clickbait piece like that ?

… and why have I clicked and responded to it?

NO, … I will not click the poll … no, NO!

100% agree, I managed to stay strong and resist the urge to even look at the results. Except now I'm annoyed I couldn't resist the urge to actually read answers and you must be annoyed at the 10 minutes of your life you've wasted on typing a reply to this pointless topic.

Also have another one to add to your list which is actually big simracing news, which is EA takeover of Codemasters. I for one would really like to hear opinions on this and where the Dirt/F1 franchises are likely heading as a result.

 

[Gate Voltage]

@Bram Hengeveld
It is funny how you put a "development ruler" on it and say you are past (I assume you meant past) the no-FFB stage. If you like the majority like it for immersion have fun with it -- but I would not suggest it represents some kind of evolutionary stage of sim racing as a lot of cars with power steering or electronic steering drive nothing like they do in a sim with FFB turned on.
I would suggest it to be a matter of personal preference.

 

[CrimsonEminence]

Who developed the first force feedback wheel for games? [yeah yeah I could have googled it but need some interaction]

I remember Microsoft with the Sidewinder FFB and InterAct (turned into Speedlink later) V4 FFB wheel (which i still have here, was using the game port of the sound card, could cause some hickups) around 1997-1998. FFB for overall home use was more of a glorified rumble, back then. But playing NFS3 with the V4 was actually a revelation!

 

[bgil66]

Prefer FFB obviously and I think my very first wheel was the Logi Wingman Force all red in 1998?? and to my recollection the cable came off about 5 times

 

[Badwheels]

What I have found from not using FFB is that the "eyes" have it. I am totally dependent on information coming from my eyes, so if I don't get turn in and braking points dead on, I am screwed. FFB adds my hands and the more points of information for me, the less likely one slip from a single source of input will cause me problems. Plus, in all my years of driving a real car, I have never driven one that didn't have FFB.

 

[F_B]

Do you prefer breathing air or no air?

 

[Kurupt CDN]

This is almost blasphemy... It is like having sex with a strap on.... Whats the point?

Ask the person on the receiving end

 

[bsmooth]

Never tried a wheel with FFB, mostly because because my TSW wheel lasts so long, plus the expense. But like some said earlier I would like the extra rotation of the actual steering wheel because its more realistic.
I wouldn't mind trying a FFB wheel though just to see whats its like.

 

[Kevin Troschinski]

Wow i really wonder there are people out there which prefer no-ffb. My first thought was this cant be serious

 

[Wayne Hutchison]

Just like all views other than cockpit view should be removed from all "serious" racing sims, turning off FFB should also not be an option. It's either a "serious" simulation or it's not.

 

[BP]

As for the being faster argument...I'd rather develop speed with FFB than acquire it through hacks and exploits of the system. That's what I consider things like no-FFB, using 360 degrees or lower rotation lock for every car (regardless of make), using a chase cam, etc...for most of them it's no different than using actual grip or acceleration cheats/hacks in my eyes...manipulating the system just for the sake of saying I'm the "fastest" feels hollow for me. Yes I know FFB tech isn't perfect, but IRL no driver is exempt from feeling G-forces...imagine if that was actually an option IRL: to completely disable G-force impact on a driver. That driver has the potential to be faster than everyone else dealing with it...but is that keeping in the spirit of the event? Tweaking/upgrading your car to peak performance is one thing...but this would be taking it too far IMO.

An online win against similar paced drivers when driving the sim as intended by the developer (with FFB, cockpit view, car's default steering rotation lock) is an amazing feeling. I know the online world will never be a truly level playing field (every driver forced to use the settings listed above), but that's just how I feel. I know ultimately this goes to the never-ending "it's just a game, chillout dude" vs. "It's a simulator, take it seriously bro" argument...it is what it is I guess.

I know someone is gonna verbally hulk out on me eventually for speaking my mind, so PLEASE NOTE: If you have a wheel that has no FFB at all or really low maximum rotation lock or don't own a wheel at all (keyboard/mouse, gamepad, joystick, cardboard box) and that is due to any reason other than "I want to win at any cost", then you're exempt from what I'm saying.

 

[F_B]

Couldn’t play any sim without ffb (and a wheel) anymore. I’ve got ffb wheels since 2012 and it adds so much more to a racing sim/game. If you guys without ffb wheels can afford a wheel: go get it.

 

[Gate Voltage]

@Wayne Hutchison Interesting opinion. Can you explain to me how something that increases "immersion" needs to be mandatory for "serious" sim racing? In which way does FFB improve the accuracy of the simulation or inappropriately disadvantage you if you were to race against someone not using FFB?

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

you are past the no-FFB stage.

I never had a non-FFB stage (only when racing GP1 and GP2 on keyboard ), just raced with the VPP a few times and it was an amazing wheel. I am passed the whole very competitive online racing part as I don't have the time anymore to put the needed practice in like I used to do. I now very much enjoy being a midpacker or backmarker and have an amazing fight with the driver in front and behind me.