Tracks CSP Required?

[SvenUilhoorn]

There are a lot more tracks recently that have "CSP required".

I'm wondering whether that's really necessary and/or if there's a simple way for these guys to include an instruction/alternate download (and how much work this would take) which will make the track work for both CSP and non-CSP users racing on the same online server.

With some mod cars I get that if you're using some physics novelty AC doesn't support but CSP does, it doesn't work without it (a workaround would likely also make it less "simulation"). But with a track I don't really understand how and why you *need* to have CSP installed.

I'm the kind of guy that doesn't force these kinds of aftermarket (however well developed it may be, I'm in no way criticizing the developer of CSP) mods on people unless they are absolutely necessary. I'm also not looking for a discussion on why I'm not installing CM and/or CSP, just on why it's not possible.

Maybe it's a simple answer and the wall of text above wasn't necessary; I don't know the ins and outs of CSP that well to judge it..

 

[Ryno917]

Well, the simple answer is that people who make tracks do so on their own time and have zero obligation to make sure they work for people with different setups than they have.

Modders don't provide you a product. And even if they did, they're still free to dictate the terms.

If someone doesn't want to use CSP, then they don't get to use things that require it, and it's not a modder's job to make sure it works otherwise.

 

[Stereo]

As far as I know the main way a track will require extra CSP features instead of just recommending it, is if it's too large for vanilla AC. The physics engine in stock runs a lot of stuff as 32-bit floating point accuracy, which limits it to about a 7-8km radius before things start shaking too much to drive. (and really outside 4km it's visibly worse)

The majority of CSP stuff is just visual though, without it there'll be no animated trackside objects, no grass, no lights, that sort of thing, but it should load ok..

 

[SvenUilhoorn]

Well, the simple answer is that people who make tracks do so on their own time and have zero obligation to make sure they work for people with different setups than they have.

Modders don't provide you a product. And even if they did, they're still free to dictate the terms.

If someone doesn't want to use CSP, then they don't get to use things that require it, and it's not a modder's job to make sure it works otherwise.

I never said they have to, I'm just asking if there a (simple) way around so more people can enjoy their work.

It isn't just about me neither; I run a group where not everyone is using CSP and I don't want to force it on people, who may not see the need to have it, to have a race without it being as easy and not-having-to-check-the-version as you can with a track.

The thing is that some tracks also add stuff for CSP users, but also work perfectly fine on vanilla AC, where others require CSP (never tested them on vanilla, assuming they wouldn't run at all).

 

[Ryno917]

I never said they have to, I'm just asking if there a (simple) way around so more people can enjoy their work.

It isn't just about me neither; I run a group where not everyone is using CSP and I don't want to force it on people, who may not see the need to have it, to have a race without it being as easy and not-having-to-check-the-version as you can with a track.

The thing is that some tracks also add stuff for CSP users, but also work perfectly fine on vanilla AC, where others require CSP (never tested them on vanilla, assuming they wouldn't run at all).

It comes down to which CSP features are being used. I haven't looked at track animations at all, so not sure about those, but if the track is making use of any of the added shaders it won't work.

It's one of those things where there's so many variables, there may not be an easy solution at all.

 

[aphidgod]

The non-CSP WRX file I uploaded as a final vanilla update when I switched to cphys is barely over 60 total downloads. The latest CSP version is currently at 36,893...

Not only is it unnecessary for modders to accommodate the few dozen remaining vanilla holdouts if they don't want to, it seems like it's actively a waste of time even when they do.

 

[SvenUilhoorn]

The non-CSP WRX file I uploaded as a final vanilla update when I switched to cphys is barely over 60 total downloads. The latest CSP version is currently at 36,893...

Not only is it unnecessary for modders to accommodate the few dozen remaining vanilla holdouts if they don't want to, it seems like it's actively a waste of time even when they do.

You again! Missed you and the entire opinion/fact/causality/relationship thing!

This is of course a completely legit causality; Aphigod's WRX doesn't do much good on an update the entire AC community should know about, but the CSP version (uploaded later that day, so probably few people "had the chance" of downloading the earlier update), which may attract all the CSP "fans" because "OMG NEW CSP CANDY" does very very well. (I hope you see what I did there; I'm not saying I'm necessarily right, but you can't prove you are neither)

But then: you don't even know how many people there are that aren't downloading CSP that are downloading mod tracks often, (and onto your car mod) you don't know how many people download your car and actually never use/install it, you don't know how many people download the car, found out they don't have CSP and never bother with it, or actually never find out at all because they never use the car anyway.

Again, I already made clear it's about tracks only for me, and I had no clue which track specific CSP features were not possible to simply (manually) disable (by removing a single file), or whether or not a track would not work at all on vanilla AC because of some obscure CSP feature I didn't know about.

From your update description:
"This will be the "final" update for this car using vanilla AC physics. Further updates will begin at v2.0 and will require CSP physics. (Unfortunately it's not backward-compatible so we do what we have to do.)"

Why "unfortunately" if the "vanilla holdouts" are some kind of ethnic minority that doesn't need to be served? that.
Not everyone likes to fiddle with the game in the way that some do over here. I for example like my AC to work when I need it to and not need to check whether I have all the updates or that one right update to have a good race once every week.

It works now, and I frankly don't need your WRX, although I seem to have the some vanilla version from 2021. I don't know, I never drove it.

 

[aphidgod]

You again! Missed you and the entire opinion/fact/causality/relationship thing!

This is of course a completely legit causality; Aphigod's godly WRX doesn't do much good on an update the entire AC community should know about, but the CSP version (uploaded later that day, so probably few people "had the chance" of downloading the earlier update), which may attract all the CSP "fanboys" because "OMG NEW CSP CANDY" does very very well. (I hope you see what I did there; I'm not saying I'm necessarily right, but you can't prove you are neither)

But then: you don't even know how many people there are that aren't downloading CSP that are downloading mod tracks often, (and onto your car mod) you don't know how many people download your car and actually never use/install it, you don't know how many people download the car, found out they don't have CSP and never bother with it, or actually never find out at all because they never use the car anyway.

Again, I already made clear it's about tracks only for me, and I had no clue which track specific CSP features were not possible to simply (manually) disable (by removing a single file), or whether or not a track would not work at all on vanilla AC because of some obscure CSP feature I didn't know about.

From your update description:
"This will be the "final" update for this car using vanilla AC physics. Further updates will begin at v2.0 and will require CSP physics. (Unfortunately it's not backward-compatible so we do what we have to do.)"

Why "unfortunately" if the "vanilla holdouts" are some kind of ethnic minority that doesn't need to be served? Maybe you're not good with words, but it's never too late to get a little bit better with that. It all comes across "slightly" offensive, and that's not the first time.

Not everyone likes to fiddle with the game in the way that some do over here. I for example like my AC to work when I need it to and not need to check whether I have all the updates or that one right update to have a good race once every week.

It works now, and I frankly don't need your WRX, although I seem to have the some vanilla version from 2021. I don't know, I never drove it.

I love that this makes you so angry.

The irony, of course, is that I'm one of the few modders who does bother to try to support you vanilla guys, but I suppose in your haste to lash out in narcissistic rage you missed that inconvenient detail.

 

[sollrakc]

When developing for two different platforms (read vanilla/CSP) you have to do QA for both. It's not worth the time or effort for most modders, given you are spending time on a inferior version, for a non-existent market. Everyone that doesn't use CSP are most likely just ignorant of its existence, you're very much the exception. There's nothing wrong with that, but expect less mods available for you.

 

[SvenUilhoorn]

I love that this makes you so angry.

The irony, of course, is that I'm one of the few modders who does bother to try to support you vanilla guys, but I suppose in your haste to lash out in narcissistic rage you missed that inconvenient detail.

I don't know why I even bother

..and I also don't know why my message was edited because of an insult? I probably am the one insulted by not addressing my question at all in your reply.

So the irony, of course, is that I never asked about (your) mod cars, and that I again only asked why tracks require CSP and if that's really really necessary or if there's a very simple way around it. I'm not begging anyone. But you seem to miss that inconvenient detail in all your narcissistic rage.

 

[SvenUilhoorn]

When developing for two different platforms (read vanilla/CSP) you have to do QA for both. It's not worth the time or effort for most modders, given you are spending time on a inferior version, for a non-existent market. Everyone that doesn't use CSP are most likely just ignorant of its existence, you're very much the exception. There's nothing wrong with that, but expect less mods available for you.

My point again was, what's so different that it needs this work, because there's barely any answers on that? Again as I described in my first post, I understand why it's different for cars.

Now the "added shaders" are the only thing I've heard so far, no idea if that can easily be separated if it's added in the first place?