D -Box 4250i G3 VS Next Level Traction Plus and V3

[Bonobhoy]

Hi.

Im currently using the Next Level Motion Platform V3,i have been thinking that again this year will be an upgrade or additions due to no holidays etc.

I was originally going to purchase the Next Level Traction Plus System as i already have the V3 Seat mover and add it on.

Then i was looking into the D box 4250 i G3 system and was maybe now thinking of purchasing this this year (if available) and then also selling the V3 Seat mover.

I have the GT1 Evo Cockpit with Triple Monitors and Valve Index for VR,so im good to go for a while without upgrading any of this.

Being in the UK Scotland i was looking to purchase from the UK or sadly the EU and paying the extra money due to Brexit etc.

Anyone have knowledge and advice on moving forward with this? Would you buy the traction plus at £5000 and just add in the seat mover? Or would you maybe jump into the D-Box entry? Keeping in mind that as i can see it its at £8000 atm.

Or is there something out there that i can look into? Another reason why i liked both of these was that they both were under £10000 and kinda quiet for motion platforms.

 

[OlaGB]

Hi.

Im currently using the Next Level Motion Platform V3,i have been thinking that again this year will be an upgrade or additions due to no holidays etc.

I was originally going to purchase the Next Level Traction Plus System as i already have the V3 Seat mover and add it on.

Then i was looking into the D box 4250 i G3 system and was maybe now thinking of purchasing this this year (if available) and then also selling the V3 Seat mover.

I have the GT1 Evo Cockpit with Triple Monitors and Valve Index for VR,so im good to go for a while without upgrading any of this.

Being in the UK Scotland i was looking to purchase from the UK or sadly the EU and paying the extra money due to Brexit etc.

Anyone have knowledge and advice on moving forward with this? Would you buy the traction plus at £5000 and just add in the seat mover? Or would you maybe jump into the D-Box entry? Keeping in mind that as i can see it its at £8000 atm.

Or is there something out there that i can look into? Another reason why i liked both of these was that they both were under £10000 and kinda quiet for motion platforms.

What sims and games are you running?

I would leave the Next level stuff, and go for better systems to be honest.
Nothing wrong with it, but the money youre about to put into this can buy what i see as better equipment.

D-box would be what supports the most games and sims but is very expensive, Sigma DK2/DK2+ as a cheaper but still very high quality alternative with a bit more travel, allthough not so many game titles supported yet..
PT-actuator, Prosim or similar systems for shitloads of travel, if you`re into that sort of things (flight sims maybe)..

There is no right or wrong in these choices though , but more a matter of taste and what you wish to achieve..

 

[Beef36]

Anyone have knowledge and advice on moving forward with this? Would you buy the traction plus at £5000 and just add in the seat mover? Or would you maybe jump into the D-Box entry? Keeping in mind that as i can see it its at £8000 atm.

Or is there something out there that i can look into? Another reason why i liked both of these was that they both were under £10000 and kinda quiet for motion platforms.

I can't recommend what is the best motion platform for you, however D-Box is a commercial spec platform and built like a tank with renouned reliability and longevity, thus it's worth considering buying a used set.

Last year I bought a refurbished D-Box 4250i 1.5" (Generation 1) for a friend for the equivalent of GBP 3,400 (plus shipping from USA). The key difference between the current Gen 3 D-Box and the older Gen 1 is the latter does not support horizontal movement (e.g no D-Box surge and yaw).

 

[crooksy]

Have you looked at the Sigma Dk2?

 

[DonDonki]

eRacing Lab just released the new RS Series, completed with tractionloss surge and active belt. Worth checking them out too.

https://eracing-lab.com/collections/rs-series

 

[Bonobhoy]

Yeah im kinda looking into a few things at the moment now.

The SR2 and the D Box 4250 are for my main actuators on my GT1 Evo...but i was wondering if they could then fit on the Traction Plus? I heard of a few people being able to make the SR2 mounted onto the Traction Plus.

But i don't understand how games would then send out 2 signals for telemetry, 1 for the SR2 and 1 for the Traction Plus? Any info on this?

And is there any other sim builds out there with Traction Loss built in that i may be overlooking?

 

[5teveC457]

I have the NLR motion v3 along with traction plus, and have no complaints. It works extremely well in VR and you definitely feel the back end coming around. I've found in VR the TL helps me catch slides before they get out of control sooner.

I wish there was someone near me that had a D-Box setup that I could try and compare how it feels to my NLR setup.

 

[Bonobhoy]

I have the NLR motion v3 along with traction plus, and have no complaints. It works extremely well in VR and you definitely feel the back end coming around. I've found in VR the TL helps me catch slides before they get out of control sooner.

I wish there was someone near me that had a D-Box setup that I could try and compare how it feels to my NLR setup.

Did you find it worth its money?

I hear so many things about this,not in performance as much,but way way overpriced for what it is.

Dont mind paying for expensive equipment,as long as its worth it over other items in that price bracket or slightly over.

 

[NetLawMan]

I am a huge fan of the dbox system. I had gen 1, and its great. Gen 3 is even better, unless it is too expensive for the buyer. while gen 1 is Built like a tank, gen 3 parts are going to be around for a lot longer, just a consideration.

Here is a link to comments I made previously here on RaceDepartment:
Post in thread 'Motion system with 10000$ budget'
https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/motion-system-with-10000-budget.209418/post-3446525

note that d-box does both motion, and haptics, which is unique and adds a huge amount to the experience, even when you are just sitting there idling in classic rally car!

Advanced Sim Racing, an authorized RaceDepartment dealer, sells d-box new and refurbished I think.

 

[Beef36]

I hear so many things about this,not in performance as much,but way way overpriced for what it is.

Dont mind paying for expensive equipment,as long as its worth it over other items in that price bracket or slightly over.

This is my perspective (others may differ) based on the maturity of sim racing motion hardware today:

- Tactile Vibration: Buttkicker, Dayton etc (Excellent)
- Surge: Active Seat Belt (Very Good)

G-Force Seat: e.g. G-Seat: Good

Chassis Motion:
- Heave: Excellent
- Pitch: Good
- Roll: Good
- Surge: Overrated
- Sway: Overrated
- Yaw (incl Traction loss): Overrated

If I was starting again, I'd focus on tactile vibration, active seat belt, 3DoF (heave, pitch, roll) and then G-Force seat; in that order.

If I had to restrict budget, I would defer yaw, surge and sway until hardware technology improves.

 

[5teveC457]

Did you find it worth its money?

I hear so many things about this,not in performance as much,but way way overpriced for what it is.

Dont mind paying for expensive equipment,as long as its worth it over other items in that price bracket or slightly over.

I find the traction loss to be beneficial, especially in VR. When running triple monitors though, I don't seem to feel the yaw motion as much, or perhaps I just got used to it now. I feel that when running triples I am able to sense the movement against the stationary monitors and that somehow takes a bit away from the sensations. In VR though, the traction loss is pretty incredible as I definitely can feel the back end start coming around and seem to be able to catch slides easier and quicker than if I was running without it.

In terms of whether it is worth it, that is the big question. I feel that the Motion v3 seat is worthwhile for the money, but the traction loss at $6k (US) makes it a bit less so. Given the total cost of the Motion v3 + Traction Loss is pretty close to a D-Box G3 system, it is a tough proposition. Of course, I have never tried a D-Box (or any actuator system for that matter), so have nothing to compare what I have against them. When I purchased my system a few years ago, D-Box was way too expensive (G1), which made my decision easier at that time.

Having said that, the build quality and customer service from Next Level Racing has been second to none in my experience. I had an issue with my Motion v3 developing a squeak, and they sent me an entire new unit.

 

[OlaGB]

I am a huge fan of the dbox system. I had gen 1, and its great. Gen 3 is even better, unless it is too expensive for the buyer. while gen 1 is Built like a tank, gen 3 parts are going to be around for a lot longer, just a consideration.

Here is a link to comments I made previously here on RaceDepartment:
Post in thread 'Motion system with 10000$ budget'
https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/motion-system-with-10000-budget.209418/post-3446525

note that d-box does both motion, and haptics, which is unique and adds a huge amount to the experience, even when you are just sitting there idling in classic rally car!

Advanced Sim Racing, an authorized RaceDepartment dealer, sells d-box new and refurbished I think.

Actually, it`s not that unique to D-box anymore.. Several motion systems do engine vibrations etc now.
I got both buttkickers and DK2 motion myself, and the DK2 does general haptics better than the buttkickers, and the engine vibs are just around the corner for release for DK2 as well.. (A fact, it`s beta testing now).
I also got PT`s new belt tensioner, and it`s really a cool add to the experience!

If i where to rank immersiveness to equipment, i would struggle a bit now as i feel it`s the total package that actually makes it happen.
But tactile/shakers, then belt tensioner, then motion would be the rank if it`s down to money.
I find the Sigma DK2 the most fun i`ve installed though, as it really makes the rig come alive, and i really can use the motion to read the car/chassie movements and use it in my driving.

If it`s pure laptime thats the goal, i would drop it all, and maybe just do pedal vibration for brake lock.
That said, i`ve increased my iRacing IR rank after adding all this immersiveness, so it`s not making me slower either.

Never tried surge/sway motion, as i only do triple monitor, and dont believe in these motion directions (for me, my opinion) for other than VR.

 

[dethgrind666]

Actually, it`s not that unique to D-box anymore.. Several motion systems do engine vibrations etc now.
I got both buttkickers and DK2 motion myself, and the DK2 does general haptics better than the buttkickers, and the engine vibs are just around the corner for release for DK2 as well.. (A fact, it`s beta testing now).
I also got PT`s new belt tensioner, and it`s really a cool add to the experience!

If i where to rank immersiveness to equipment, i would struggle a bit now as i feel it`s the total package that actually makes it happen.
But tactile/shakers, then belt tensioner, then motion would be the rank if it`s down to money.
I find the Sigma DK2 the most fun i`ve installed though, as it really makes the rig come alive, and i really can use the motion to read the car/chassie movements and use it in my driving.

If it`s pure laptime thats the goal, i would drop it all, and maybe just do pedal vibration for brake lock.
That said, i`ve increased my iRacing IR rank after adding all this immersiveness, so it`s not making me slower either.

Never tried surge/sway motion, as i only do triple monitor, and dont believe in these motion directions (for me, my opinion) for other than VR.

I have a DK2 system also, and I have since removed my butt-kickers and such, the engine vibration comes this month looking at the notes. You are correct. I absolutely LOVE my system. I on the other hand and in the process of going surge also, I'd rather Sigma do the serge but right now I'm looking at the 1 d-box actuator system from JCL. If I can figure out a way to do it with my DK2 actuator I would prefer that to keep it all cohesive but they don't offer surge yet.

 

[NetLawMan]

Actually, it`s not that unique to D-box anymore.. Several motion systems do engine vibrations etc now.
I got both buttkickers and DK2 motion myself, and the DK2 does general haptics better than the buttkickers, and the engine vibs are just around the corner for release for DK2 as well.. (A fact, it`s beta testing now).
I also got PT`s new belt tensioner, and it`s really a cool add to the experience!

If i where to rank immersiveness to equipment, i would struggle a bit now as i feel it`s the total package that actually makes it happen.
But tactile/shakers, then belt tensioner, then motion would be the rank if it`s down to money.
I find the Sigma DK2 the most fun i`ve installed though, as it really makes the rig come alive, and i really can use the motion to read the car/chassie movements and use it in my driving.

If it`s pure laptime thats the goal, i would drop it all, and maybe just do pedal vibration for brake lock.
That said, i`ve increased my iRacing IR rank after adding all this immersiveness, so it`s not making me slower either.

Never tried surge/sway motion, as i only do triple monitor, and dont believe in these motion directions (for me, my opinion) for other than VR.

I would be interested in people whom have experienced both. Largely because d-box works directly with the game developers and generally does not rely on the standard telemetry stream.

 

[NetLawMan]

I would be interested in people whom have experienced both. Largely because d-box works directly with the game developers and generally does not rely on the standard telemetry stream.

What I mean is that (1) dbox uses electromagnetic actuators which gives it a big advantage in terms of detail and nuance compared to mechanical actuators (even those that claim to do haptics), and (2) dbox is integrated into the game engines themselves in most cases.

I find the advantages are in its subtlety and nuance, as well as the quality and ease of use of their SW and integrations.

Here is a decent video of a dbox system in action:

For $5k (G1 refurbished), I don’t think it can be beat. You can also see my other post (linked in my previous message above) for my comments about aesthetics, safety and company reliability. Given their longevity in the SIM industry, system symplicity, and FIA approval, I have found it worth it.

Plus it was an opportunity to support a North American company that has invested in R&D for 15-20 years now. I don’t want to lose companies like that

 

[OlaGB]

What I mean is that (1) dbox uses electromagnetic actuators which gives it a big advantage in terms of detail and nuance compared to mechanical actuators (even those that claim to do haptics), and (2) dbox is integrated into the game engines themselves in most cases.

I find the advantages are in its subtlety and nuance, as well as the quality and ease of use of their SW and integrations.

Here is a decent video of a dbox system in action:

For $5k (G1 refurbished), I don’t think it can be beat. You can also see my other post (linked in my previous message above) for my comments about aesthetics, safety and company reliability. Given their longevity in the SIM industry, system symplicity, and FIA approval, I have found it worth it.

Plus it was an opportunity to support a North American company that has invested in R&D for 15-20 years now. I don’t want to lose companies like that

Sorry, but you got some facts wrong here

D-box are not electromagnetic , they are ballscrew actuators just like the rest of them. High quality yes, but still ballscrew.
There`s several tech drawing online of it, if you do a bit of googling They use AC servo motors, different types on gen1 and gen3. I`ve done alot of research on this before i chose motion system for my rig, and the electromagnetic part is a common misunderstanding by many..

And they are not `integrated in game software`any more than others as far as i know.. They read the game`s telemetry just like any other kit, and add on different haptics that D-box invent themselves, like shaking/vibrating the rig when sliding for example. This is often called `canned haptics`. Some like it, others dont, but this can be tuned on/off.
Games that has D-box in the menu, is just to set telemetry to send out on the correct UDP port that the D-box listen to.
Creds to D-box to make it compatible to that many sim/games though!

And please dont take this the wrong way, i also believe D-box is a great product, but it`s important to know the facts.

 

[NetLawMan]

I agree. Facts matter

Regarding integration, you will see many games have a dbox option built in.

Then there is this video from dbox that states quite clearly that their systems are integrated directly with the games:

Not to mention the attached screen shot from the dbox website that states the same.

Thus in most cases, dbox does not rely solely on the standard telemetry stream that some other motions systems are limited to.

I will report back later with the detail on the actuators.

 

[OlaGB]

I agree. Facts matter

Regarding integration, you will see many games have a dbox option built in.

Then there is this video from dbox that states quite clearly that their systems are integrated directly with the games:

Not to mention the attached screen shot from the dbox website that states the same.

Thus in most cases, dbox does not rely solely on the standard telemetry stream that some other motions systems are limited to.

I will report back later with the detail on the actuators.

Yeah, i basicly said all these things in my post
Integrated doesnt have to mean more than a menu line, for choosing correct telemetry port.

There’s nothing wrong with D-box, it really is a great product. But they are not as unique as they once where.
They are Unbeatable on marketing though.

 

[Beef36]

I would be interested in people whom have experienced both. Largely because d-box works directly with the game developers and generally does not rely on the standard telemetry stream.

For D-Box users:

- The good is that D-Box has its own Software Development Kit (SDK) that games developers can utilise for more nuanced motion cues.

- The bad is that D-Box has its own Software Development Kit (SDK) and constantly reaches out to multiple game developers across many genres, however most have no interest as the motion market is small. Thus the list of D-Box supported games is small.

 

[Deleted member 1451080]

Deleted