Heave Dampers

[JoelK]

Can someone with more knowledge than me explain how i can use heave dampers to work around certain characteristics of the car.

I know the basic principles of how they work and how i can use heave springs for example to get rear wing down to get less drag.

I would like to know how to use them more efficiently to make the car work better in fast corners, like for example when using more aggressive front-to-rear wing ratio. Because now it's more or less a lottery when trying get it right when I'm using my knowledge from ordinary wheel dampers.

 

[RasmusP]

Can someone with more knowledge than me explain how i can use heave dampers to work around certain characteristics of the car.

I know the basic principles of how they work and how i can use heave springs for example to get rear wing down to get less drag.

I would like to know how to use them more efficiently to make the car work better in fast corners, like for example when using more aggressive front-to-rear wing ratio. Because now it's more or less a lottery when trying get it right when I'm using my knowledge from ordinary wheel dampers.

Good question, wanna learn more about it too!
Can you tell me a specific car and track so we have some real thing to work on and maybe compare motec telemetry etc.?

 

[JoelK]

Good question, wanna learn more about it too!
Can you tell me a specific car and track so we have some real thing to work on and maybe compare motec telemetry etc.?

For now I'm setting up the F2004 @ Nurburgring for saturday

 

[RasmusP]

Had a look and read up a bit on that very topic.
So we both know that the normal springs+dampers will work on every wheel separately on their own.
And we both know that the heave spring+dampers won't affect the relative movement of left/right wheels, or at least only a very little amount!

So the heaves are only working when both wheels get moved up/down. In example on bumps that hit both wheels or when aero takes effect.

You said you would want to get a "better" performance while having big loads of aero on it and especially when setting the car to be more oversteery at higher speeds compared to lower speeds.
Correct?

So for "more consistent aero", you'd want stiffer heave springs and more dampening. To make the car soft enough in general you'd need to lower the individual dampers+springs all around.
This however will lead to the car leaning more in corners, as you now stiffened up the up/down movement but not the body roll.
So a bit more ARB would be needed.

Summary: Stiffer heaves -> softer individuals -> more ARBs = less up/down movement.

Or you want to get the car down under aero effects and get less body roll?
Then lower the heaves and do the opposite.

I think you need to describe or feel more accurately what you really need from the car. Why you lose it, why it's understeering etc.

And you need to figure out if the aero is less effective because it rolls too much or because the height is too different.

 

[JoelK]

Had a look and read up a bit on that very topic.
So we both know that the normal springs+dampers will work on every wheel separately on their own.
And we both know that the heave spring+dampers won't affect the relative movement of left/right wheels, or at least only a very little amount!

So the heaves are only working when both wheels get moved up/down. In example on bumps that hit both wheels or when aero takes effect.

You said you would want to get a "better" performance while having big loads of aero on it and especially when setting the car to be more oversteery at higher speeds compared to lower speeds.
Correct?

So for "more consistent aero", you'd want stiffer heave springs and more dampening. To make the car soft enough in general you'd need to lower the individual dampers+springs all around.
This however will lead to the car leaning more in corners, as you now stiffened up the up/down movement but not the body roll.
So a bit more ARB would be needed.

Summary: Stiffer heaves -> softer individuals -> more ARBs = less up/down movement.

Or you want to get the car down under aero effects and get less body roll?
Then lower the heaves and do the opposite.

I think you need to describe or feel more accurately what you really need from the car. Why you lose it, why it's understeering etc.

And you need to figure out if the aero is less effective because it rolls too much or because the height is too different.

That was even more comprehensive answer that i expected

But yeah my problem was coming into that turn 5-6 combo and the Schumacher S, the car would roll too much and i would get this violent snap oversteer when i screwed it up just a little tiny bit.

If i go stiffer on ARBs, i would get oversteer, which is more consistent through the corner tho'. And this led me to losing perfomance on long run because even though it was still fast if i nailed it but really hard to keep consistent.

I was just trying to find a if there were solution to my issue in getting the aero like you said - more consistent, whilst still keeping front wing kinda aggresive.

Ps. If i go stiffer on the ARBs i would get this Porsche-like entry understeer and exit oversteer

 

[RasmusP]

That was even more comprehensive answer that i expected

But yeah my problem was coming into that turn 5-6 combo and the Schumacher S, the car would roll too much and i would get this violent snap oversteer when i screwed it up just a little tiny bit.

If i go stiffer on ARBs, i would get oversteer, which is more consistent through the corner tho'. And this led me to losing perfomance on long run because even though it was still fast if i nailed it but really hard to keep consistent.

I was just trying to find a if there were solution to my issue in getting the aero like you said - more consistent, whilst still keeping front wing kinda aggresive.

Ps. If i go stiffer on the ARBs i would get this Porsche-like entry understeer and exit oversteer

That's some real info
I'd say try to make the springs and bump dampers stiffer. Not the fst settings though. The dampers have some kind of arb effect when raised.
And then lower the heave dampers and springs to make the car in general a little bit softer.
That should work well for bigger bumps but reduce the roll.
Kerbs will be more aggressive though with this.

 

[JoelK]

That's some real info
I'd say try to make the springs and bump dampers stiffer. Not the fst settings though. The dampers have some kind of arb effect when raised.
And then lower the heave dampers and springs to make the car in general a little bit softer.
That should work well for bigger bumps but reduce the roll.
Kerbs will be more aggressive though with this.

I did some testing yesterday with the new setup changes and went 5 tenths quicker which is a lot because my last PB was a near perfect lap for me with my old setup.

With those setup changes i could go from 13-18 wings to 15-18. I still think there is time to be gained with couple of tweaks here and there.

But anyways really appreciate the help

 

[Neilski]

testing yesterday with the new setup changes

Nice, but how would you feel about telling us exactly what you changed?

 

[JoelK]

Nice, but how would you feel about telling us exactly what you changed?

Everything thing that @RasmusP mentioned and nothing else really except for more front wing and also little tweak on the rear toe