Just had a massive laugh at this topic AC understeer

[Deleted member 963434]

Wanted to post but its closed now.

Massive understeer

Hi all, I'm new to ac, is it normal for cars to understeer catastrophically whe. You turn the wheel no more than 45-90 degrees

www.racedepartment.com

and guy said " Yes, the vast majority of cars are designed to understeer when you turn the wheel too much for the speed "
again but short " cars are DESIGNED to UNDERSTEER " whaaat xD
another one " In any racing, real or sim you should turn the wheel the absolute minimum amount "
well xD cars are not designed to understeer but turn fast and easily
also, when you drive fast you not turn so precise and carefully, but fast and hard
I know, i drive different cars daily, i work in car rental and i drive newest cars from 2018 to 2020 from seat ibiza to volvo xc60 or bmw 520d 2018 and i tell you for sure. cars are designed to turn, and when you drive fast, yo not scared to steer too much and be precise but you steer hard and fast, as Nicky Thiim (GTE champion) said bout iracing "yo want be good in iracing you must drive like a girl"
I think same for AC you must drive like a girl , so precise, so finese, so slow mo.
i post this cause i reinstalled AC for like 10 time today (same for PC2, i reinstall them alternately, once im outraged in AC understeer i uninstall it and install PC2, once im outraged in PC2 ffb settings i unistall it and install AC, that happen like 2 month cycle)
and today i just installed AC and think uninstall it again to get back to PC2 tomorrow.
so fo!!!!ken outraged how cars drive there, and this sense of speed boi i tell yo i drive really fast in real life ( i crashed two cars in job) but never go into 90 degree turn at like 50 kph and just get off road lol, and i can tell im goin 50 kph only by looking at speedo and i feel like im goin like 10-20 kph. I tel yo even more in real life i test cars near my home by checking how fast a car can get into 90 degree corner, and im easily make 90 degree corner by 80 kph righ now even with cars as toyota corolla, seat ibiza or my own old bmw e36 i can make 90 degree corner easily at 70 kph, in ac i barely can at 50 kph its so funny
so angry at this game.
i tell you theres no good sim right now for road cars, ACC is just best for gt3 but pc2 would be for road cars if they improve ffb, cars drive like in real life there but yo doin everything by learned habits cause ffb is so poor there
and i didnt even touched rfactor 2 cause scared its AC fanboys making it sound so good and theres even more understeer than AC.. its crap as f... forza horizon is much more comparable to real life than AC

 

[Mr Deap]

Ah, now I understand the issue, you skipped the grade where we learn basic shapes.

The key feature, the way you tell them apart, is that the square has what we call corners.

Bah it's not a GT3 car, but in AC they all look square.

Here something that should be more intuitive & data from planet Earth

Traction Circle “G-G” Diagram, Explained

We spend hours or days scouring the internet researching tires with the most grip, or reading your sanctioning bodies rules to determine which tires offer the most grip for what you want to spend, …

vrperfdev.wordpress.com

Videogame data

 

[Stereo]

You uploaded the wrong image, I only see irl data.

 

[Johnr777]

When are we going to learn about triangles?

 

[mclarenf1papa]

I'm a fairly quick driver (usually 0.5s off of fastest sim guys and in the vicinity of the real pros I work with) and this is a car with *more* combined grip than most cars in AC....certainly not square. Again, finding it very difficult to believe he's not just trolling now.

 

[Deleted member 963434]

i tell yo i just played some time in AC online at nordschleife there may be something wrong with tyre pressures setting
i mean i just drove in real life at work BMW f30 touring 320D 2018 and i had 2,2 bar pressures (thats around 32 psi as in AC)
then i went do some drift at abandoned airport and pressures get only to 2,3 bar (thats 33 psi) but it was wet so maybe cause they not get too hot and pressure increase
but i played today some AC and i was drivin BMW e92 M3 and i noticed default is 35 psi for this car (do real life M3 really uses 2,4 bar? i gues it can) but thing is when we pump our tyres in real life at fuel station does we have optimal temps in our cars, and does air coming into our tyres is hot? how we measure?
i mean in AC i have set default pressure of 35 psi (2,4 bar) and thats cold tyres pressure, but when im start driving and tyres get optimal temps it go to 40 psi !! (2,8 bar) i dont think they use such high pressure in e92 M3 its not a truck...
so i think and nobody told it earlier in ac yo must set lower pressure than yo want when driving, cause its ice cold pressure yo setting, and when tyres get optimal it goe to higher pressure than yo wanted. so i choose only 25 psi (1,75 bar in real life thats way too low and car computer reduce yo max speed to 90 kph cause it thinks yo have puncture) but when i get optimal temps it raises from 25 psi cold to 33 psi hot, thats exactly 2,3 bar as i using always in real life. and car drives good in real life and in AC it gets to drive like a boat, and tyre app tell yo yo have too low psi in tyres

 

[Fat-Alfie]

 

[Johnr777]

i tell yo i just played some time in AC online at nordschleife there may be something wrong with tyre pressures setting
i mean i just drove in real life at work BMW f30 touring 320D 2018 and i had 2,2 bar pressures (thats around 32 psi as in AC)
then i went do some drift at abandoned airport and pressures get only to 2,3 bar (thats 33 psi) but it was wet so maybe cause they not get too hot and pressure increase
but i played today some AC and i was drivin BMW e92 M3 and i noticed default is 35 psi for this car (do real life M3 really uses 2,4 bar? i gues it can) but thing is when we pump our tyres in real life at fuel station does we have optimal temps in our cars, and does air coming into our tyres is hot? how we measure?
i mean in AC i have set default pressure of 35 psi (2,4 bar) and thats cold tyres pressure, but when im start driving and tyres get optimal temps it go to 40 psi !! (2,8 bar) i dont think they use such high pressure in e92 M3 its not a truck...
so i think and nobody told it earlier in ac yo must set lower pressure than yo want when driving, cause its ice cold pressure yo setting, and when tyres get optimal it goe to higher pressure than yo wanted. so i choose only 25 psi (1,75 bar in real life thats way too low and car computer reduce yo max speed to 90 kph cause it thinks yo have puncture) but when i get optimal temps it raises from 25 psi cold to 33 psi hot, thats exactly 2,3 bar as i using always in real life. and car drives good in real life and in AC it gets to drive like a boat, and tyre app tell yo yo have too low psi in tyres

I have a similar issue... trying to get a real life Ford Fiesta to do a quarter-mile as fast as my Ford GT mod in Assetto Corsa...

They are both fords, so its a legit comparison...

 

[Mr Deap]

@mclarenf1papa


The string theory leads people new to AC/ACC to understeer. That data show you drive differently to compensate as a work around & no way you would pull square shape in the traction circle data using the string theory as per read. The square shape show that the car rotate from the front & the rear get magical grip.

The concept of pushing a car to the limit is so arcade.

Special thanks to mclarenf1papa

 

[mclarenf1papa]

@mclarenf1papa
View attachment 414127

The string theory leads people new to AC/ACC to understeer. That data show you drive differently to compensate as a work around & no way you would pull square shape in the traction circle data using the string theory as per read. The square shape show that the car rotate from the front & the rear get magical grip.

The concept of pushing a car to the limit is so arcade.

Special thanks to mclarenf1papa
View attachment 414146

The screenshot of mine on the last page is the real driver in the sim and real life. He drives the same in both.

Please, to anyone listening to this nonsense, stop.

Not worth the time for me to bother with it anymore.

 

[Mr Deap]

The screenshot of mine on the last page is the real driver in the sim and real life. He drives the same in both.

Please, to anyone listening to this nonsense, stop.

Not worth the time for me to bother with it anymore.

Can you explain in detail the nonsense. If you never explain, I will never know. I might make fun of you forever, because of all that realism fad, not because I have some agenda. I'm legitimately seeing that square form & I truly believe it's arcade.

 

[onearmedbandit46]

I'm curious as to what your goal is with this.

 

[KittX]

You seem to think that transition from grip to slip is linear. Just like you seem to think of "traction circle" as some linear progression, which it isn't.



Generally i wouldnt bother further elaboration on it, but the more i think about such cases popping up, the more I'm blaming racing schools actually.
Thing is, in real world, no rookie driver would be starting to learn the limit of traction from breaking it all the time (well, excluding the skidpad), apart from it being unsafe, it's also increasing running costs of running racing school/rental racecar business. So there are very generalized/linear mantras kept being told again and again. Heck, even on rental karts or karting schools what is being told usually? "don't use throttle and brake at the same time - you will spin backwards", which, especially on rental karts is quite far from real reason why people should not do this until they learn how to use it in their advantage (and also to annoy kart owners for increasing wear on their parts). But no customer of any service related to rental anything is interested about running the vehicles long-term. "I paid for session and don't care for parts wear".
That's how the generalized mantras are born.

 

[Mr Deap]

You seem to think that transition from grip to slip is linear. Just like you seem to think of "traction circle" as some linear progression, which it isn't.

Generally i wouldnt bother further elaboration on it, but the more i think about such cases popping up, the more I'm blaming racing schools actually.

Good trail braking is critical to being fast on track - if you're not doing it well, you'll be losing lap time when racing. In this video Driver61 founder, Scott Mansell explains the top 5 mistakes he sees when working with over 100 drivers per year trying to trail brake.

In his long explanation, he clearly advertise the car would in fact oversteer & lose cornering speed from not easing up the brake before turning in.

What driver61 explain on video is exactly what as per claim in text in the string theory. But, according to mclarenf1papa traction circle, the graph show an heavy step case suggesting he his doing it wrong in his driving input & according to his lap time, the game reward him for doing so.

mclarenf1papa graph look like a mix of amateur driving & doing something wrong, based on driver61 webpage about grip circle. Although, I believe the game physic makes him look like it.

 

[Stereo]

It is an amateur driver, yes, and it's irl data as well as game data on the same plot. And in neither case is the driver exceeding a traction circle.

 

[Mr Deap]

How can this be amateur driver? mclarenf1papa claim, based on the traction circle, that he is at 1sec from professional simracer time.

He's not exceeding the traction circle for what reason, weak brake, suspension not working properly? You know, that elastic max stretch in one direction & you can't claim pull that off by underdriving. Seriously he's 1 sec off pace & with the "vertical load(from the weight transfer) & the total mass to handle"(load sensitivity) to retain the grip, it doesn't make sense to see a square shape.

 

[Stereo]

He's not exceeding the traction circle because that's physically impossible... the traction circle represents the maximum the tires can do.

 

[mclarenf1papa]

Best lap of 1 tenth off of the fastest IRL. Real driver was 3 tenths quicker IRL than in sim. The square is there because of light braking/turning zones (track is road atlanta, so think entry to T5, T1, T6). But it’s well within the traction ellipse. Within that, the shape doesn’t matter, because you’re under the limit of the tire (in this case because it improves corner entry stability and thus overall performance). All you’re showing is that you don’t even know how to read the data you’re referencing.

 

[KittX]

...easing up the brake before turning in...

...doing it wrong in his driving input...

Again it shows that you think like driving inputs (braking in this case) have linear corellation on braking force, pressure, and weight transfer, which is not.
Braking input on pedal, especially measured in percentage, not weight, does not equal the force of brake pads friction to brake disc.
In older cars, or any cars with non-assisted braking if you pump the brakes before corner and quickly apply like 60% of the pedal travel (speaking in simulation driving input terms) you have chances to lock the wheels. Similarly if you are easing off the brakes, its often enough ease it off a bit to move the weight of the car from the front, while still maintaining a bit of braking, but the force applied to brake pads will not equal the percentage of the input graph.

 

[mclarenf1papa]

To be super clear, this is what the friction ellipse on this car sort of looks like. It's skewed/offset because you can't really generate a friction ellipse from g plots on a car with downforce (or if there are elevations on the track)...but it gives you a very general idea of the maximums:

Any shape of the data within the black lines is acceptable (i.e. follows "string theory"). If it were outside (besides the parts I cut off a bit to account for aero), it would no longer follow the theory.

The nonsensical square friction circle Deap keeps going on about would look like this:

If you can't tell how that's wrong, I can't help you.

And from a different track (which is actually a better one for this kind of data analysis) just to further prove the point.

 

[PhilS13]

To be super clear, this is what the friction ellipse on this car sort of looks like. It's skewed/offset because you can't really generate a friction ellipse from g plots on a car with downforce (or if there are elevations on the track)...but it gives you a very general idea of the maximums:

Nice try. Sure looks like a bunch of squares to me.

Facts.