Cars KRB Lotus Tiga Esprit 2.0

[AccAkut]

AccAkut submitted a new resource:

KRB Lotus Tiga Esprit - small but vicious sister of the Audi

... and here is the other one. The Lotus Esprit from team KRB Trading, another Gatebil regular and monster from viking lands.
While the Audi was a true garage build, this car has a different origin. It started life as a Group-C C2 class car from Tiga, which was crashed, then bought and shipped to Sweden, where a tuner/maniac rebuild it and draped it in Lotus Esprit like bodywork, because why not. With a peaky Nascar V8 it ran in some national...

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[Tom Blackett]

Cool! Can't wait to try. Thanks!

 

[LilSki]

Totally looks like a rip from Forza

 

[spadi211]

Amazing work as always!

 

[Billy Pilgrim]

Thank you so much for this. It looks amazing. Can't wait to try it out.
Are there other cars in AC (or mods) against which your Lotus Tiga is supoosed to race/same class, sort of thing?

 

[AccAkut]

Thank you so much for this. It looks amazing. Can't wait to try it out.
Are there other cars in AC (or mods) against which your Lotus Tiga is supoosed to race/same class, sort of thing?

Like I wrote in the text I have driven it against the Kunos Group-C cars and against the RSS GT1 cars, but it really depends on track and driver (I'm not an overly good driver). Its has more power (or rather a better torque curve) than GrpC but less aero, which is more on a lowish GT3 level. With highish restrictions it should fit well with the GT1s.

For me its mostly a car I like to use on Trackday Sessions I fill with other oddballs like the P1 GTR, 599XX, Eboos hillclimbers (against which this does not stand a chance)

 

[Jim Liak]

I like it.
3D model is really nice. Sounds are really good.
Driving is also nice but :
1. I believe rear tyres need more mechanical grip. Now she is really oversteery.
2. Engine has really low engine breaking.
3. Steering lock is more than 1120degrees. Is this correct?
Really good effort.

 

[Mascot]

What a beast! Thanks very much @AccAkut.
You probably already know but there's a visible panel gap around the front of the doors in cockpit view - you can actually see the road through the gap. Might only be visible in VR but it's a bit of an immersion breaker when glancing left and right. Happens quite often in mod cars so it must be something that's hard to pick up on a 2D panel. Just a missing texture or two maybe? There's no gaps when viewed from outside the car.
Anyway, love trying to tame this monster. Thanks again!

 

[AccAkut]

What a beast! Thanks very much @AccAkut.
You probably already know but there's a visible panel gap around the front of the doors in cockpit view - you can actually see the road through the gap. Might only be visible in VR but it's a bit of an immersion breaker when glancing left and right. Happens quite often in mod cars so it must be something that's hard to pick up on a 2D panel. Just a missing texture or two maybe? There's no gaps when viewed from outside the car.
Anyway, love trying to tame this monster. Thanks again!

that is intentional, you're looking at the tire and into the wheel well, you can also look inside the car from there. IIRC a gap like that was visible in an onboard video I had come cross. It does underline the "actually not a real Esprit" nature of the car

 

[Mascot]

that is intentional, you're looking at the tire and into the wheel well, you can also look inside the car from there. IIRC a gap like that was visible in an onboard video I had come cross. It does underline the "actually not a real Esprit" nature of the car
View attachment 263109

Aha, that would explain it..!
I'll take a closer look next time I'm in the cockpit.

 

[Tibor Solyom]

So my answers to your questions after my rating:
I would rate a 2 hour work Forza rip 1 star, the NFS cars 5 stars. It's simple.
Actually I would rate your car 3,5, but because the physics is much more important for me, then the other things, I rated finally 3 instead of 4. Sorry for that, it's my honest opinion, nothing more.
I tried it on more tracks, many laps, 2 different days. For me there is no feedback from the grip level, and I can't feel the weight of the car.
I like it's quite challenging to drive. (I found the Audi way too easy.)
BTW I think the brakes are too strong, you can use open wheeler braking points (no influence on my rating).
Your last question is stupid, I don't make mods. But this fact doesn't make your car better.
I don't like this 5 star fetishism. It wouldn't be fair to give you 5 stars, just because you have worked on it hundreds of hours, because I can't give 10 stars for the Transit for example. As I said I really appreciate your work, and thank you very much for sharing it, but I think your cars don't have the same quality as the best mods here.
I try to say this politely and friendly, I think it's more useful for you, then give you automatically 5 stars.

 

[AccAkut]

So my answers to your questions after my rating:
I would rate a 2 hour work Forza rip 1 star, the NFS cars 5 stars. It's simple.
Actually I would rate your car 3,5, but because the physics is much more important for me, then the other things, I rated finally 3 instead of 4. Sorry for that, it's my honest opinion, nothing more.
I tried it on more tracks, many laps, 2 different days. For me there is no feedback from the grip level, and I can't feel the weight of the car.
I like it's quite challenging to drive. (I found the Audi way too easy.)
BTW I think the brakes are too strong, you can use open wheeler braking points (no influence on my rating).
Your last question is stupid, I don't make mods. But this fact doesn't make your car better.
I don't like this 5 star fetishism. It wouldn't be fair to give you 5 stars, just because you have worked on it hundreds of hours, because I can't give 10 stars for the Transit for example. As I said I really appreciate your work, and thank you very much for sharing it, but I think your cars don't have the same quality as the best mods here.
I try to say this politely and friendly, I think it's more useful for you, then give you automatically 5 stars.

Thanks for explaining. Regarding driving feel you may went in expecting a GT car, a road Esprit converted for track use, which this just is not, it's a Group-C race chassis with slightly more weight, more torque and higher CoG. I feel plenty of feedback on my lowbob DFGT, and so did the guy finetuning the physics on his DD wheel, to the point that he was drifting the car.

 

[Tibor Solyom]

I didn't have any preconception regarding the car. I love this type of beasts, my problem is I don't feel what's happening, there is no road feeling. Which is still fun, but not seems to be real.
I have a common G27, and even restarted my computer because I thought there's something wrong with the wheel. But still the same unfortunately. I hope you can fine tune that, it has a lot of potential.

 

[Ghoults]

I tried this quickly. I did not have my car engineering apps on but few things I noticed. First is that the car seems to have high default ffb compared to most kunos cars. However some kunos cars have higher ffb than others so maybe it is ok. I did drop it to 70% to get it similar levels as some other cars. Other thing I noticed was the both front and rear suspension have bump steer. Basically the toe changing as the suspension moves. On the front this hurts the ffb but on the rear it really hurts the car handling. Any changes in the car pitch and roll change the car handling siginificantly as the tires steer to different directions based on how much load you have on them. On steady state cornering the car is fine but in transitions it is unpredictable (turn in, going from braking to acceleration, mid corner, corner exit). I don't know if you have the real accurate suspension geometries of the car for front and rear but if there is room for error I'd at least eliminate the rear bump steer. Or set it that it doesn't go toe-out. Also both front and rear suspension have equal amounts of camber gain. I'd expect to have less camber gain on the rear compared to front but it is not wrong per se to have it like that.

Aero felt a bit finicky as well. Like the car had too much front aero making it very oversteery on faster corners but I did not look at the numbers. Could be the rear toe out too. Also I'm not sure about how the engine is so gutless at low rpm. You need lots of wheelspin to get it to move. Looking at the real car:

It does pull away much more effortlessly.

Visually I'd add more edges to the 3d model air hose that is on the center of the dash. It is straight in your vision and looks a bit low res compared to the rest of the car.

 

[AccAkut]

@Ghoults
thats all interesting points, especially with the bump steer, as that was one thing we thought we had "dailed out" in all those hours fine tuning it. We don't have real accurate suspension data to work off (the teams has none, all they could send me was some data on the shocks and springs which I incorporated), so we had to "eyeball" the basic layout from the photos and take other inspiration from the Kunos Group-C cars, like caster, scrub radius' and FFB "feel".
I wonder if there's maybe been a mix up with the files between our Dev versions at some point, I'm personally not a good enough driver nor do I have good enough equipment to feel these issues.

Engine torque is from real dyno plots :/ Guess its more the issu of having no clutch feel in a sim. Maybe the clutch could be tuned to have less torque, no idea if that has influence on the start up behavious

 

[Ghoults]

Bump steer is easy to dial out. Just sit in garage and write down your toe at front and rear at default ride heights and then +30mm and -30mm ride heights. Most likely you end up with linear curve going through those three points. Then just take the car chassis side steer rod location and move it up or down 1cm. Then measure again at those same points. Repeat until close to 0 though the suspension travel range. If you do not get linear numbers then move the car chassis side steer arm location either towards the car center line or towards the tire. Small changes.

Linear numbers would look like this
-30 ... -0.1
0 ... 0
+30... 0.1
Draw it on paper or plot it in excel. Straight line goes through 3 points.

If your steer rod is too short you may end with unlinear numbers like these:
-30 ... -0.1
0 ... 0
+30... -0.1
When you plot this it looks like parabelic curve -x^2

or if both steer rod and height are unoptimal:
-30 ... -0.3
0 ... 0.1
+30... -0.1

And these are all reversed if your steer arm is in front of the axle.

I took a quick look at the aero. I don't see anything eye catching in the aero app. Front splitter does not align with the model, the aero rectangle should be higher which should make the splitter less sensitive to ride height as well (but lose little downforce). Rear diffuser is quite forward in the car. But I don't know how long the tunnel under the car is. A long diffuser still needs to clear the lower wishbones of the rear suspension and the transmission so it being so forward could be optimistic.

Are you sure about your first gear as it is quite long? Also you have quite a lot steer angle on your front tires. Not really an issue but the car has very good turning radius now. considering it has quite big front tires.

 

[AccAkut]

@Ghoults
we already found a reason for the bumpsteer, my friend and me send around bits of the ini files via FB and it seems like rear steer rods were replaced by something old (and wrong). Ackermann at the front is also up to debate, but I'm not at home where I have the single assembled Tiga front suspension pic I had to work off Could be that we neglected the steer rods too while dialing in the roll radius, or it too got replaced with older lines by accident. Anyway we are on

This kids is what happens if you don't just copy the suspension of a Kunos car

Gearing I got from the team, but I added different longer final drive sets based on what Hewland sells for the box, and selected a longer set (2,125) for the release (as with the stock one you're in the limiter immediately on many tracks like Spa or Monza). I could change it back to "real" 2,818, but I expect people to go "meh it does top out way too early, gearing suxx"

 

[Mascot]

that is intentional, you're looking at the tire and into the wheel well, you can also look inside the car from there. IIRC a gap like that was visible in an onboard video I had come cross. It does underline the "actually not a real Esprit" nature of the car
View attachment 263109

My mistake - I've taken a closer look and I see what you mean now. Nice detail!
There is an odd gap to the rear of the passenger window from inside the cockpit which does look like a missing surface (the same part on the driver's side is solid, and it's solid from outside) but it's only really noticeable in VR when looking over your left shoulder. You might want to bookmark it though in case you ever update the model.

 

[AccAkut]

My mistake - I've taken a closer look and I see what you mean now. Nice detail!
There is an odd gap to the rear of the passenger window from inside the cockpit which does look like a missing surface (the same part on the driver's side is solid, and it's solid from outside) but it's only really noticeable in VR when looking over your left shoulder. You might want to bookmark it though in case you ever update the model.

best post a screenshot

 

[Mascot]

best post a screenshot

Not easy for me to do in VR, I'm afraid.
You can't miss it really.