Mobile Driving/Flying Cockpit with Motion and Tactile ( Build )

[OlaGB]

Interesting. I've never gotten the jump landing effect to work. Maybe enabling high priority is the key to make it work. If so thanks for the pointer! I'll give that a try.

I also run high threshold, so its only the really hard hits that kicks through..
22-24hz on LFE works great

 

[RCHeliguy]

When I first setup my Race Bass tactile plate, I think I was expecting to need to readjust it not expecting to get the height right on my first attempt.

Apparently I didn't tighten the bracket bolts all the way and they had come very very loose. Needless to say that has a huge impact on what I feel from a chassis mover.

What an F'ing HUGE ASS difference! I now feel firmly planted and everything feels much better!

And thanks OLA, I added two High priority Jump Landing channels F/R BK ( 22-24Hz) and F/R TST ( 50-55Hz) It really does make a difference in Dirt Rally!

I'm actually going to say I'm happy with how it feels in Dirt Rally all the way around. Now that I'm solidly planted, it feels WORLDS better.

So idiot mistake on my part! I'm going to go back and add the second pair of M8 bolts to each bracket to help prevent this happening again in the future.

So how did I notice this? The D-Box was going through it's startup up and down sequence and I wasn't in the seat. I heard a noise that sounded very wrong and it was the seat jiggling around because it was basically floating

 

[RCHeliguy]

The trickledown from this is that there is no way that I was able to give D-Box Haptics a decent test if my seat was loose. As much of a difference as a loose seat made for motion, for haptics it would be even more so. Since my transducers have a solid mount to my seat and the D-Box didn't it would have been seriously muted.

 

[NetLawMan]

How did you end up addressing the competing interests of tactile isolation vs the desire to allow vibration to come from the actuators to your seat/feet?

 

[NetLawMan]

How did you end up addressing the competing interests of tactile isolation vs the desire to allow vibration to come from the actuators to your seat/feet?

Nevermind, you posted the answer as I was writing the question

 

[RCHeliguy]

4 very tight bolts per bracket now

For the moment I'm just enjoying having everything working well. That is a tremendous relief for me and provided some great big grins in Rally this morning.

So to be fair, I may be bouncing on the very positive side of things right now. Just trying to keep perspective.

I need more burn in time to make sure things are what they can be across the board. I'll tackle flight again as well. Fingers crossed, but I have reasonable expectations there.

I'll swap my isolation springs with rigid blocks the same height for testing purposes and all my previous comments on the subject are null and void until I do.

 

[drvrn]

For application with movements and vibrations you should also use Loctite on screws:

Loctite Threadlocker Blue 242 from Loctite Adhesives

Securing nuts and bolts from accidental loosening. Removes with hand tools.

www.loctiteproducts.com

(this is what i use this on many screws on my motorcycle).

 

[RCHeliguy]

Thanks! I have a couple tubes of blue and one of red ( won't be usng that).. if it comes loose again, I'll try some blue.

 

[MarkModdy]

@RCHeliguy would you say you are now much happier with your new dbox set up?

I think my disappointment for your initial reaction was probably as strong as you were feeling it… I really wanted you to be blown away by it… (like I said you would be with the heusinkveld ultmate + pedals)

 

[RCHeliguy]

@RCHeliguy would you say you are now much happier with your new dbox set up?

I think my disappointment for your initial reaction was probably as strong as you were feeling it… I really wanted you to be blown away by it… (like I said you would be with the heusinkveld ultmate + pedals)

The circumstances were not ideal. The combination of having an RMA issue and having Covid at the same time meant I was not 100%. I was really beat with no energy for two weeks with some lingering effects a week past that. Then a complete fail on my part securing the seat brackets ruining the feel.

I have to recenter myself now. After I got the brackets tightened up, the difference was so pronounced and it was so night and day better that I was blown away as you suggested. I really felt like I was in the car and was absolutely grinning ear to ear. The following day, I lost a bit of that blown away feeling but it still felt very good.

I think I still need to work with this a while longer and get fully comfortable with it before I say much more about my impressions. It's not fair to present a roller coaster ride.

I will say I'm absolutely no longer feeling disappointed like I feel the need to reinstall my NLRv3 or that I'll just be waiting for the longer actuator Gen5's to be released to be happy with it.

More to come, but I need to take my time and not jump the gun with my remarks. I feel embarrassed by my earlier comments. I don't want to repeat any of that.

 

[metalnwood]

I think some more subtle effect of motion may be lost, I remember when I put my seat on the spring isolators I could tell that some of the short sharp energy was being absorbed and was a little bit bummed out about that.

It didnt take too long to get over that and get used to things. Possibly with tuning less smoothing I got it back to what it was, I will never know unless I take the springs out to compare but I dont have any urge to do that.

So it wont surprise me if you dont feel all of what the motion can do for the fine detail but the motion still does great for the motion part and tactile for tactile.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Good to know.

I am planning to put rigid blocks in place of the springs at some point to better evaluate what the haptics are capable of and anything else I might be missing because of my tactile system.

But for now I'm getting a baseline and part of that baseline is me.

In audiophile circles that is called "burning in". What it really means is that the grey swishy thing between your ears gets used to the new speakers and how they sound. Inevitably they sound better over time as you get used to them despite there being no measurable difference in the sound coming out of the speakers.

I have 3.5 years of NLRv3 motion that I've grown accustomed to. I need to get accustomed to the D-Box. That is different from starting from no motion system

 

[MarkModdy]

More to come, but I need to take my time and not jump the gun with my remarks. I feel embarrassed by my earlier comments. I don't want to repeat any of that.

Well that does sound more positive, however there is no need for any embarrassment @RCHeliguy all this is part of a journey, maybe to a destination that is never quite reached, or we do get there but by a slightly different route than we expected to take when we set out

And don’t feel bad about missing the tightness of the brackets, been there and done that sort of thing in the past myself… to err is to be human.

All following enjoy reading your posts, and if it wasn’t you ‘discovering’ their way on something like this it would maybe just be be someone else.

Yes do take your time, don’t worry about not reporting back, just enjoy the ‘making it work for you’ as that’s the fun bit here… we are all just ‘tinkerers’ at heart

 

[Mr Latte]

I think some more subtle effect of motion may be lost, I remember when I put my seat on the spring isolators I could tell that some of the short sharp energy was being absorbed and was a little bit bummed out about that.

It didnt take too long to get over that and get used to things. Possibly with tuning less smoothing I got it back to what it was, I will never know unless I take the springs out to compare but I dont have any urge to do that.

So it wont surprise me if you dont feel all of what the motion can do for the fine detail but the motion still does great for the motion part and tactile for tactile.

This is a good point, smoothing some of the motion and likely too its haptics. I think that dampening for some of the motion feelings, is something that could then be looked at with the advanced tactile effects.

Yet nobody that owns a DBox seems interested in actually trying to understand what frequencies, some of the actual haptics output for specific effects. It constantly gets overlooked or ignored.

To properly combine advanced tactile with motion haptics, makes sense to understand this better to then apply frequencies with the advanced tactile "that align with" what the haptics is doing for the same types of effects.

Already some will just dismiss this, or tut at this notion. Seemingly, they disregard the importance of how fundamental frequencies, center values, and octaves for how audio/frequencies work can be better utilised to our advantage.

The alternative is to turn off or disable some of the motion haptics and just replace them with advanced tactile in Simhub.

My own point is, that nobody I am aware of has really tried to look deeper into understanding and testing methods of combining both options. Repeatedly and continually discussions of such goes back to one Vs the other. Or like we see with most YT reviewers so far, they do not have experience of high-end multichannel tactile but base their opinions of motion haptics only with budget tactile hardware they have owned. A very flawed reality of the situation we find ourselves.

Based on frequency bandwidth energy from the motions haptics, it is possible the strongest/lowest to mid-bass is what are the most enjoyable felt sensations within the seat. Yet again, no reviewer or owner I have seen actually knows or explains what are the best felt frequencies from the unit's own frequency tests. What within that @100Hz range is best? How low does it feel good down to, how high is the point the felt sensation drops off, especially when advanced seat/pedal isolation is being used? Are these not good questions? Even understanding this as a basis to work on, lets us determine what frequencies kinda suck from the motion haptics coming from their installed positions as they typically are.

We have seen DBox owners talk about how good its haptics are in adding road/surface detail. Yet one of the points Mark referred to was he didn't feel this much/if any better than what he already experienced with tactile.

Perhaps that will change when Mark now re-looks into the effects again with the changes made to his rig. I look forward to that and also trust in Mark to give the community his true findings.

What I will say is, the potential for directly attached tactile to a seat should bring several advantages with finer detailing and the potential Simhub offers.

The difference with Simhub is we are not restricted as we can apply whatever frequencies we want for the desired generated effects sensations. To then determine what or how many channels/units an effect is applied to for the user's seat or pedals.

 

[NetLawMan]

This is a good point, smoothing some of the motion and likely too its haptics. I think that dampening for some of the motion feelings, is something that could then be looked at with the advanced tactile effects.

Yet nobody that owns a DBox seems interested in actually trying to understand what frequencies, some of the actual haptics output for specific effects. It constantly gets overlooked or ignored.

To properly combine advanced tactile with motion haptics, makes sense to understand this better to then apply frequencies with the advanced tactile "that align with" what the haptics is doing for the same types of effects.

Already some will just dismiss this, or tut at this notion. Seemingly, they disregard the importance of how fundamental frequencies, center values, and octaves for how audio/frequencies work can be better utilised to our advantage.

The alternative is to turn off or disable some of the motion haptics and just replace them with advanced tactile in Simhub.

My own point is, that nobody I am aware of has really tried to look deeper into understanding and testing methods of combining both options. Repeatedly and continually discussions of such goes back to one Vs the other. Or like we see with most YT reviewers so far, they do not have experience of high-end multichannel tactile but base their opinions of motion haptics only with budget tactile hardware they have owned. A very flawed reality of the situation we find ourselves.

Based on frequency bandwidth energy from the motions haptics, it is possible the strongest/lowest to mid-bass is what are the most enjoyable felt sensations within the seat. Yet again, no reviewer or owner I have seen actually knows or explains what are the best felt frequencies from the unit's own frequency tests. What within that @100Hz range is best? How low does it feel good down to, how high is the point the felt sensation drops off, especially when advanced seat/pedal isolation is being used? Are these not good questions? Even understanding this as a basis to work on, lets us determine what frequencies kinda suck from the motion haptics coming from their installed positions as they typically are.

We have seen DBox owners talk about how good its haptics are in adding road/surface detail. Yet one of the points Mark referred to was he didn't feel this much/if any better than what he already experienced with tactile.

Perhaps that will change when Mark now re-looks into the effects again with the changes made to his rig. I look forward to that and also trust in Mark to give the community his true findings.

What I will say is, the potential for directly attached tactile to a seat should bring several advantages with finer detailing and the potential Simhub offers.

The difference with Simhub is we are not restricted as we can apply whatever frequencies we want for the desired generated effects sensations. To then determine what or how many channels/units an effect is applied to for the user's seat or pedals.

It will be interesting, but I think the biggest hurdles are:

- the inherent negative impact of high-end tactile “isolation” setups on the effectiveness of the actuators movement and haptics. This is something that has been pointed out many times in the past.

-the law of diminishing returns for many people (in terms of expense, aesthetics, and effort)

Admittedly I have already made my decision and have no plans to test high-end tactile, as I have chosen actuators plus sound-track-based tactile mounted to the seat (largely for full frequency engine feel). That said, it still would be interesting to hear someone’s thoughts on an “actuator plus high-end tactile” vs “actuator plus soundtrack-based tactile”. I am looking forward to it actually.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I'll cut some aluminum blocks the same length as spring isolation with end donuts and drill holes in them so I can bolt them in ditectly in place of the isolation and have everything completely rigid.

 

[Mr Latte]

I'll cut some aluminum blocks the same length as spring isolation with end donuts and drill holes in them so I can bolt them in ditectly in place of the isolation and have everything completely rigid.

A real car has suspension

Remove your seat, do haptic tests standing on the RaceBass plate.
Then stand on the rigs left/right supports to compare.

Will give you some idea regards the haptics at least.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Was able to remove these cables from my rig today.
If I had thought ahead, I could have removed the other Y cable too.

So 4 of these allowed me to remove that.

 

[OlaGB]

I'll cut some aluminum blocks the same length as spring isolation with end donuts and drill holes in them so I can bolt them in ditectly in place of the isolation and have everything completely rigid.

Good plan. It’s good to know how it works standalone as well..

I had to increase my road vibration (high freq stuff) settings on the motion system after i installed the spring kit.

 

[NetLawMan]

A real car has suspension

Remove your seat, do haptic tests standing on the RaceBass plate.
Then stand on the rigs left/right supports to compare.

Will give you some idea regards the haptics at least.

Apologies, but can you clarify the objective of this test?