Mobile Driving/Flying Cockpit with Motion and Tactile ( Build )

[RCHeliguy]

I've test fitted the left seat bracket.

The tall bolt is just holding this together until the proper sized bolt gets here.
The room in back looks pretty good. I'll leave the plastic washer out when I tighten this down finally.

The Front is a bit more snug, but I'll be pushing back when I'm braking. I'll just need to see how it works out.

I put a lot of effort into getting this mount as low as possible because I can always shim it higher. I've got 120mm long bolts if I need them, but 100mm should be fine for a good fit.

 

[blekenbleu]

a lot of effort

Based on more than a little experience,
you apply more diligence to prototyping than do many commercial
(including defense contractor) projects. Too many times I heard
something like "it's only a prototype; production will fix all that."

 

[Tom_Hampton]

Based on more than a little experience,
you apply more diligence to prototyping than do many commercial
(including defense contractor) projects. Too many times I heard
something like "it's only a prototype; production will fix all that."

Hey now! I am one of those.

In all seriousness, I agree...I've said it before, he does fine work...that is on-par with many of the designs I see come out of our mechanical design group.

In truth, I have certainly seen some questionable work come out of some of our subcontractors. On the other hand, I have a team of my own ME's headed with a couple suitcases full of SLA parts to test fit /V&V designs to an aircraft prior to signing off the drawings.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Thanks for the compliments.

Since I've only got a one off, I have to get all my iteration in early and try to account for everything I can.

It's not like I'm sending these out to Alpha and Beta testers and then finally settle on a final product.

 

[RCHeliguy]

We have achieved mockup, with the exception of the 3/8" hole in the front plate for the TST-429, but I think I can measure and center a hole without a template.

The PLA is doing a pretty reasonable job of suspending this weight.

Now I need to remove the transducers and secure that 40x40 profile on the front, undo the isolator mounts and see how well this fits the seat. I don't think putting the weight of the seat on this would be a good move.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Overall it bolted right up. No surprises, however a couple modifications will be needed.

I was expecting this and was relying on the pliability of the PLA to get measurements on how far to trim the plate back so it wouldn't touch the seat bottom. Not a big deal.

By moving the plate above the seat rails, I've lost just enough clearance that my quick release stick wouldn't quite fit between the bottom of the seat and the top of the 40 series profile. I've lost 6.35mm and I only had about 3mm of clearance to begin with.

So I've ordered some 30x60mm profile and some 30 series M8 T-nuts. I have the bolts already.

That will give me 10mm of space and a bit more room than before. I'm confident that the 6.35mm plate + 30 series part will be strong enough for the TST-429.

I'll just need to adjust the design of three 3D printed parts and reprint them.

I don't need to reprint all of the corner plates.

After measuring and marking the PLA, the rear plates can be trimmed with a hot knife and then used as a template.

Positioning 30 series holes on the front plate can be done directly on the aluminum, so it can also be used as a template. I'll want to reprint and fit all the 3D printed parts to the 30 series profile before deciding the hole placement anyway.

Aluminum Fabrication can begin.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Those Sparco seat brackets are excellent attachment points, but they arrived a bit beat up and I'm debating polishing the the anodizing off and getting them to a mirror finish.... Hmmm....

 

[anton_Chez]

Well done on nutting all of this out to get the most out of your isolators. But, I must stress this again. Why is it, that we wonder why people are not running this "Stage 1" level of tactile with the "necessary" isolation, etc? Well, read this thread, for starters! I would wager maybe a handful of people, if that, would have not only the expertise and knowledge, but the sheer willpower to spend so much time and energy on something that literally involves ZERO actual driving. Credit to you for putting your skills to work, but what I did was about as far as I was willing to go to accommodate additional hardware and I'm far from the least imaginative and resourceful person that I know.

 

[d69morpwr]

Those Sparco seat brackets are excellent attachment points, but they arrived a bit beat up and I'm debating polishing the the anodizing off and getting them to a mirror finish.... Hmmm....

Easy off oven cleaner works great for stripping anodizing off. You have to get the real stuff though not a knock off copy. The cheap stuff works but takes twice as long and uses twice as much.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Well done on nutting all of this out to get the most out of your isolators. But, I must stress this again. Why is it, that we wonder why people are not running this "Stage 1" level of tactile with the "necessary" isolation, etc? Well, read this thread, for starters! I would wager maybe a handful of people, if that, would have not only the expertise and knowledge, but the sheer willpower to spend so much time and energy on something that literally involves ZERO actual driving. Credit to you for putting your skills to work, but what I did was about as far as I was willing to go to accommodate additional hardware and I'm far from the least imaginative and resourceful person that I know.

That is exactly why I'm working with Mr. Latte on solutions that will come as a kit and bolt up to a profile chassis with no fuss. Bolt it up. Connect it to your amplifiers. Off to the races with awesome tactile!

You are MUCH more representative of the vast majority of sim racers out there and you are completely right about this. On the other hand, I'm an engineer who gets off on designing things that don't exist yet. I enjoy driving my rig, but the minute I have an idea for something new that completely takes over and the design process gives me more satisfaction.

It takes many types of people to make the world go round. I think that's a good thing!

 

[RCHeliguy]

Easy off oven cleaner works great for stripping anodizing off. You have to get the real stuff though not a knock off copy. The cheap stuff works but takes twice as long and uses twice as much.

Thanks for that!

I once used Draino and then vinegar to neutralize the base, followed up with Baking Soda to neutralize the acid.

Easy Off sounds easier.

That looks much easier. Let soak for 5 minutes and rinse off.
Then I can take my polish disk to it.

 

[d69morpwr]

Thanks for that!

I once used Draino and then vinegar to neutralize the base, followed up with Baking Soda to neutralize the acid.

Easy Off sounds easier.

That looks much easier. Let soak for 5 minutes and rinse off.
Then I can take my polish disk to it.

Yes it works great. I use it all the time when i need to strip aluminum pieces on cars so i can polish them.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Say what? Third times a charm right? A few false starts today I guess.

10:15 AM Package is by God out for delivery! So help me this time!

The shorter bolts did finally arrive.
I could only find this bolt in metal oxide.

 

[Mr Latte]

It's a challenge to put this level of tactile on a VR3, but this is the first, I have seen anywhere that will do so, with this level of dampening and with minimal height difference to the seat. I certainly like others can applaud the excellent work and design as well as efforts to "do it right". It's part of the pleasure for some as a hobby in its own.

Such also inspires others and I think that's great.
Looking forward to your first impressions Mark.

Teasing:
Now I'm thinking, over time here......
Dual large, BK at the rear, two additional vertical TST for seat mounts/sides, 4 exciters on the back/shoulders. Then I believe this will be the best VR3 based seat I have ever seen and would bring you the ability to run multiple effects with a very high level of detail/power and immersion.

 

[RCHeliguy]

It's a challenge to put this level of tactile on a VR3, but this is the first, I have seen anywhere that will do so, with this level of dampening and with minimal height difference to the seat. I certainly like others can applaud the excellent work and design as well as efforts to "do it right". It's part of the pleasure for some as a hobby in its own.

Such also inspires others and I think that's great.
Looking forward to your first impressions Mark.

Teasing:
Now I'm thinking, over time here......
Dual large, BK at the rear, two additional vertical TST for seat mounts/sides, 4 exciters on the back/shoulders. Then I believe this will be the best VR3 based seat I have ever seen and would bring you the ability to run multiple effects with a very high level of detail/power and immersion.

Teasing.... Huh??? You are relentless! LOL!

Unfortunately I can't mount a left side TST because it would interfere with the Flight throttle or Collective stick when those are in place.

Right now I'm being careful before I go to metal and I'm refining the design for strength while keeping the critical dimensions the same.

The Yellow arrow is where the M8 bolt is "trying" to get a compression fit on the channel of the NLRv3 arm, but that steel is very strong and it doesn't appear to be compressing that much. I haven't really torqued it yet, but I don't want to deform the channel before I get my aluminum in there.

To be safe, I've added an additional horizontal bolt to hold the angle and solid aluminum block together firmly, and I extended the block out past the isolator bolt hole. This should give it very solid support back there. There will be four M8 bolts holding this together into what I'm hoping will be a fairly rigid extension of the NLRv3 arm. The back end will be getting the most stress and I want to ensure it is as solid as it can possible be.

What I will likely do is very gradually add the round over to the top of the block and angle until it just barely fits and so it is very tight. I will also add very thin layer of non-hardening caulk between the steel and aluminum to hopefully prevent any chance for squeaks.

Below should give an idea of how I'll be laying this out in aluminum, but I will need to print the final parts to use as templates and I'm not quite there yet. I want to make sure that I dot all the i's and cross all the t's before I make the parts.

For the solid aluminum, I'm mostly limited to the cuts I can make with my table saw, but I have ordered a new metal cutting blade for my small bandsaw since the angle aluminum would be much easier to work with on that. I was using the junk blade that came with my small bandsaw for metal, bit it is completely shot now. This will be my first specifically for metal bandsaw blade.

 

[GagarynGaribaldi]

Teasing.... Huh??? You are relentless! LOL!

Unfortunately I can't mount a left side TST because it would interfere with the Flight throttle or Collective stick when those are in place.

Right now I'm being careful before I go to metal and I'm refining the design for strength while keeping the critical dimensions the same.

The Yellow arrow is where the M8 bolt is "trying" to get a compression fit on the channel of the NLRv3 arm, but that steel is very strong and it doesn't appear to be compressing that much. I haven't really torqued it yet, but I don't want to deform the channel before I get my aluminum in there.

To be safe, I've added an additional horizontal bolt to hold the angle and solid aluminum block together firmly, and I extended the block out past the isolator bolt hole. This should give it very solid support back there. There will be four M8 bolts holding this together into what I'm hoping will be a fairly rigid extension of the NLRv3 arm. The back end will be getting the most stress and I want to ensure it is as solid as it can possible be.

What I will likely do is very gradually add the round over to the top of the block and angle until it just barely fits and so it is very tight. I will also add very thin layer of non-hardening caulk between the steel and aluminum to hopefully prevent any chance for squeaks.

View attachment 507881

Below should give an idea of how I'll be laying this out in aluminum, but I will need to print the final parts to use as templates and I'm not quite there yet. I want to make sure that I dot all the i's and cross all the t's before I make the parts.

For the solid aluminum, I'm mostly limited to the cuts I can make with my table saw, but I have ordered a new metal cutting blade for my small bandsaw since the angle aluminum would be much easier to work with on that. I was using the junk blade that came with my small bandsaw for metal, bit it is completely shot now. This will be my first specifically for metal bandsaw blade.

View attachment 507882

I know you enjoy the building but have you considered using one of the online places like https://sendcutsend.com ?

 

[RCHeliguy]

I know you enjoy the building but have you considered using one of the online places like https://sendcutsend.com ?

If I'm happy with how this solution works, maybe in my copious free time I'll draw up some solid parts that can be CNC'd and treat myself to some eye candy at least for the lower parts that bolt to the NLRv3.

I'm still effectively prototyping even going to aluminum, but I will be tweaking anything I need to along the way.

The top plates will vary by seat width and seat bracket bolt layout, so they aren't as useful for others. The big issue is that I'm mounting my plates inside and above the seat brackets. To make something more generic I would have to put a plate under the seat brackets and that adds about 12mm of height which may be acceptable for many people, but it's not what I'm working with.

 

[Mr Latte]

Okay, so I guess I can let you off with the additional TST at the sides (lol) , but yeah I will have to remind you at some point that an additional BK at the rear would be a nice improvement for certain effects scenarios. BIG BOYS club requires at least dual BK on the seat....


Here's a typical scenario, the seat gets tactile via only the bolts. All I can tell you is from some tests I did on past seat/rig I owned several years ago. I had no issue that was raised when having tactile energy coming into the seat from underneath as well as the sides. I think it's worth people looking into options to add another contact under the seat, stemming from the seat brackets.

It's one of those things you do, you try and you determine if you like what it offers or not.

I also had no issue when I had my old Cobra Sebring Seat, it had a large BKs energy coming through a mono metal mount which contained its own mount/brackets. I also had 2x BK Mini attached underneath the seat near the front and stereo TST vertical on the sides of the seat with a 3rd TST at the shoulders.

No issues, other than balancing the units volumes and configuring them more to taste with DSP. This was before we even had the control we have now with Simhub.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Adding just "one" more transducer has trickledown including buying another amplifier and adding Additional QR wiring to my rig. On top of that, I don't have room for another amplifier in my multimedia rack and this is in my media room.

• I'm probably 2 weeks out from having the new Race Bass mounting system complete.
• I'm at least another 3 weeks past that from getting my 4 x Exciters.
• While I'm waiting for my exciters to get here I can look at how to create addition contact patches.

I would like to actually use this as is with 2 x BK/TST pairs and then exciters and configure some tactile with that before I consider "the next level". My pride won't be hurt if I'm not in the "big boy club".

 

[Mr Latte]

Adding just "one" more transducer has trickledown including buying another amplifier and adding Additional QR wiring to my rig. On top of that, I don't have room for another amplifier in my multimedia rack and this is in my media room.

I'm probably 2 weeks out from having the new Race Bass mounting system complete.
I'm at least another 3 weeks past that from getting my 4 x Exciters.

I would like to actually use this as is with 2 x BK/TST pairs and then exciters and configure some tactile with that before I consider "the next level". My pride won't be hurt if I'm not in the "big boy club".

Yes you know I am jesting with you and indeed you need to get the enjoyment from this investment you already have put in. It will be a big jump in what you experienced before.