Hi guys, the past while I was trying to find good comparisons between these two models of dd's. Has anyone tested both ? I understand that the software for these aren't complete yet but is there any clear winner here ? thanks.
Podium DD's VS Simucube 2's
- Thread starter Darren Byrne
- Start date
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Deleted member 197115
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Deleted member 197115
I don't think there is an issue per se, depending on one's standards of course, but the difference between two. Rock solid vs almost there. Also depends on FFB levels you run.
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RCHeliguy
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I've been quite lucky with my Fantatec McLaren GT3 wheel and it only gives a slight creak if the SC2 gives a big jolt. Have to admit that it isn't the right quality of rim that you should be running on any kind of DD servo though.
More time for me to save up is required
I haven't noticed any issue the vast majority of the time, but that Dallara just nailed it HARD! I honestly hope there is a way to adjust for ABS effect separately. That was a killer
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This man seems shady and dishonest. I commented on his wrong info about direct input filters and corrected him about how they work. His response? To delete my comments and block me so my future comments automatically get deleted. I know this because I was watching his vid again earlier today while I wasn't logged into yt and all my comments were gone, disappeared. They only show up if I log into my account.
It seems this guy deletes people comments if they point out anything he doesn't like. I think that shows the true character of someone rather than the front they put up on a camera. It's dishonest and means he doesn't like transparency, being corrected or opinions that differ from his
If anyone's interested, here's what I wrote and I posted screenshots as proof.
I wanna add that I've been simracing and reading forums since the bhmotorsports, nogrip, and racesimcentral days. I'm not much of a poster, I just read a lot from a few sites. I felt I had to expose this boosted media guys' silencing of others though so that's why I posted here. Have a nice day.
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karoliens
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Hi, I just sold my trusty t300 and looking for DD base. Options I am considering are Fanatec DD1, SimuCube 2 Sport or second hand OSW. I am leaning towards SC2 Sport at the moment. What are the other differences between SS2 Sport vs DD1 except peak torque? What would be a good price of used OSW to ignore other options?
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RCHeliguy
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@GoRace3x there are things that you need to keep in mind as well.
Just because you are right about something doesn't mean you should be openly combative. Presenting information in a way that is helpful will "generally" be appreciated. Calling someone out as being completely wrong is not the way to create a dialog. It instantly puts someone on the defensive.
Let's say you are trying to build up a YouTube channel following. First that takes a certain personally and emphasis.
Barry at SRG is very analytical and informative. He is all about technology and equipment.
Jimmy Broadbent is all about the racing sometimes in real life.
GamersMuscle is mostly about just having fun and sim racing in a very self deprecating way.
Boosted Media is trying to find a niche and a following. He is obviously trying to guard his very new brand. I really don't know what his brand will be yet. He isn't as likable as Jimmy or GamerMuscle. He isn't as informative as SRG. It almost looks like he using a playbook. He started with clickbait titles which unfortunately are effective and has been trying to build his credibility from there.
It's a bit weird because you see GamerMuscles slowly upgrade his rig and you want him to do well. Jimmy is the same way and has been given equipment that I think most people feel he earned. Boosted Media comes off as a well funded kid who just wants to be a YouTuber.
I was happy to see this video because even though I don't see Boosted Media as having any credibility yet, he did take the time to slowly walk through a lot. In doing so he demystified things for some people. A few screen shots of Barry's setup screens works for some people, but for many others a slow walk through that included just reading the help text verbatim is a level of hand holding that works.
Maybe he is a bit insecure right now and trying to protect his brand, but no one is perfect and he is putting himself out there. I think we all have to weigh information based on the source.
Just because you are right about something doesn't mean you should be openly combative. Presenting information in a way that is helpful will "generally" be appreciated. Calling someone out as being completely wrong is not the way to create a dialog. It instantly puts someone on the defensive.
Let's say you are trying to build up a YouTube channel following. First that takes a certain personally and emphasis.
Barry at SRG is very analytical and informative. He is all about technology and equipment.
Jimmy Broadbent is all about the racing sometimes in real life.
GamersMuscle is mostly about just having fun and sim racing in a very self deprecating way.
Boosted Media is trying to find a niche and a following. He is obviously trying to guard his very new brand. I really don't know what his brand will be yet. He isn't as likable as Jimmy or GamerMuscle. He isn't as informative as SRG. It almost looks like he using a playbook. He started with clickbait titles which unfortunately are effective and has been trying to build his credibility from there.
It's a bit weird because you see GamerMuscles slowly upgrade his rig and you want him to do well. Jimmy is the same way and has been given equipment that I think most people feel he earned. Boosted Media comes off as a well funded kid who just wants to be a YouTuber.
I was happy to see this video because even though I don't see Boosted Media as having any credibility yet, he did take the time to slowly walk through a lot. In doing so he demystified things for some people. A few screen shots of Barry's setup screens works for some people, but for many others a slow walk through that included just reading the help text verbatim is a level of hand holding that works.
Maybe he is a bit insecure right now and trying to protect his brand, but no one is perfect and he is putting himself out there. I think we all have to weigh information based on the source.
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karoliens
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Could someone explain what the heck this guy is talking about:
Good luck with your simucube 2, that wont be able to fixed once it breaks; Also, you can get the lowest version of simucube 2, for 40% MORE than im charging for this - and thats without fanatec conversion kit, or mount pieces. Have fun¨
P.S. He's selling 30NM OSW for 1k EUR.
Good luck with your simucube 2, that wont be able to fixed once it breaks; Also, you can get the lowest version of simucube 2, for 40% MORE than im charging for this - and thats without fanatec conversion kit, or mount pieces.
Have fun¨P.S. He's selling 30NM OSW for 1k EUR.
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Could someone explain what the heck this guy is talking about:
Good luck with your simucube 2, that wont be able to fixed once it breaks; Also, you can get the lowest version of simucube 2, for 40% MORE than im charging for this - and thats without fanatec conversion kit, or mount pieces.
P.S. He's selling 30NM OSW for 1k EUR.
Probably that the OSW is an open and you can piecemeal parts if something goes wrong. SC2 is a closed system that requires you rely on Granite Devices for support. He's just trying to sell his product.
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RCHeliguy
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@RCHeliguy, no love for SimRacingGirl?
Sorry, I never watched her. Other than noticing when she became an employee of Fanatec, she was never on my radar screen. Does she still make her own videos that are not Fanatec press releases?
Obviously there are other sim racing people out there. I just mentioned the 3 I tend to check out. I pretty much watch everything Barry puts out and a bit of Jimmy and GamerMuscle. YMMV.
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Well, while I’m waiting on my DD2 RMA exchange to be approved, I ordered an SC2 Pro from simracingbay. It made the 5500 mile journey in 3 days... meanwhile, Fanatec are still dragging their feet on basic email correspondence.
I had been considering ejecting from the Fanatec ecosystem for reasons similar to RCHeliguy, so this felt like the right time.
I figured the inevitable SC2 vs DD2 comparison would be me looking for minor, imagined differences... but surprisingly, the difference is night and day after just 30 minutes of testing in pCars (iRacing soon):
-more detail, crisper... less heavy-handed and notchy (not that the DD2 is bad by any means, but there is a difference)
-the wheel seems to perfectly match what the in-game wheel is doing (this can be good and bad, mostly good... bad when the in-game wheel is going nuts!)
-understeer and weight on the front wheels seems much clearer
But the thing I noticed the most: the wheel doesn’t oscillate or over-shoot. You can take your hands off and let it unwind as you come out of a turn, and it perfectly unwinds and then stops as the wheels become straight... something I never got on my three prior wheels (thrustmaster, csw 2.5, DD2), which would all require some additional hands-on-wheel correction.
It’s not all perfect, yet: I’m having a harder time feeling the limits in a turn, and recovering spins. My DD2 would build up a mountain of force in a turn, preventing you from turning further than was useful, and making it easier to catch a resulting slide. I either need to tweak filters on the SC2 or re-learn muscle memory to get back to that.
It feels a bit magic, honestly. Especially the lack of oscillation and over-shoot.
I had been considering ejecting from the Fanatec ecosystem for reasons similar to RCHeliguy, so this felt like the right time.
I figured the inevitable SC2 vs DD2 comparison would be me looking for minor, imagined differences... but surprisingly, the difference is night and day after just 30 minutes of testing in pCars (iRacing soon):
-more detail, crisper... less heavy-handed and notchy (not that the DD2 is bad by any means, but there is a difference)
-the wheel seems to perfectly match what the in-game wheel is doing (this can be good and bad, mostly good... bad when the in-game wheel is going nuts!)
-understeer and weight on the front wheels seems much clearer
But the thing I noticed the most: the wheel doesn’t oscillate or over-shoot. You can take your hands off and let it unwind as you come out of a turn, and it perfectly unwinds and then stops as the wheels become straight... something I never got on my three prior wheels (thrustmaster, csw 2.5, DD2), which would all require some additional hands-on-wheel correction.
It’s not all perfect, yet: I’m having a harder time feeling the limits in a turn, and recovering spins. My DD2 would build up a mountain of force in a turn, preventing you from turning further than was useful, and making it easier to catch a resulting slide. I either need to tweak filters on the SC2 or re-learn muscle memory to get back to that.
It feels a bit magic, honestly. Especially the lack of oscillation and over-shoot.
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D
Deleted member 197115
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Deleted member 197115
Do you have static force reduction active on SC2, may be this is what limits your force build up in corners, it's actually designed to do exactly that.
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Well Barry is rather subtle and polite and does not have that extremely annoying "in your face" attitude. Listening to what he says, reading between the lines and paying attention to body language, his conclusion was pretty straight forward though.
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Strange. He seems like a decent guy in his vids. As others have mentioned though, he used to have quite click-bait video titles/pics and I believe he at-least has some bias. He also has videos about PC building and overclocking but the info he provides is extremely basic and often it seems like he's repeating info he got somewhere else with regards to certain settings and such rather than him truly understanding / having experience with what he's talking about (regarding PC stuff but simracing as well). He also got to keep a $3000 Simucube Ultimate for free and he's not even that established while also being new to PC simracing; I found that a little surprising and curious.
As your pic shows, I raised a few points with him and he ignored all of them in his replies except 1 thing which was the least important thing I mentioned (my statement about other DD wheels also having no perceivable delay in filters - a moot point I shouldn't even have made).
I never even noticed the direct input settings part you mentioned, I skipped over most of that part.
By the way, I don't see your reply to me or any of your messages for that matter - just confirming what you said about him hiding/blocking you.
I'm not going to get into what he apparently did to you (hide/block you) other than to say I don't think it's right but that's the way Youtube is. I think Youtube should not allow comments to be deleted/blocked/hidden unless the comment is reported and then reviewed (like if the comment contains bullying, racism, or anything else that goes against their policy) just like the videos.
Can you give some more details regarding catching slides? I know that often when there's a slide that keeps increasing it's angle the S.A.T. often happens way too powerful with DD wheels and sometimes you have to let go of the wheel (as if you're about to get in a big accident) just because the DD wheel keeps wanting to turn more and more against your will all the way to the bump-stops - it's like there's an invisible person next to you who is trying to turn the wheel against your will all the way to the bump-stops thus placing enormous & highly unrealistic force and strain on your wrist just because the vehicle has gotten the rear-out. Is this what you're talking about? If it is, I don't think there's anything you can do about it; it seems down to FFB technology in general in my opinion because it happens in every game and with any DD wheel.
If what I described isn't what you're talking about then ignore the above, don't mind me, lol
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Can you give some more details regarding catching slides? I know that often when there's a slide that keeps increasing it's angle the S.A.T. often happens way too powerful with DD wheels and sometimes you have to let go of the wheel (as if you're about to get in a big accident) just because the DD wheel keeps wanting to turn more and more against your will all the way to the bump-stops - it's like there's an invisible person next to you who is trying to turn the wheel against your will all the way to the bump-stops thus placing enormous & highly unrealistic force and strain on your wrist just because the vehicle has gotten the rear-out. Is this what you're talking about? If it is, I don't think there's anything you can do about it; it seems down to FFB technology in general in my opinion because it happens in every game and with any DD wheel.
If what I described isn't what you're talking about then ignore the above, don't mind me, lol
Yes, it's something like that. I'll have to spend some more time with it, I've only had about half an hour and have been busy with work since
It felt more manageable on my DD2, while breaking loose on the SC2 so far feels quite violent. The SC2 feels much better right up until that point, though.The DD2 also seemed to put up quite a fight if you tried turning the wheel further than the limit of useful traction in a turn, so you were likely already close to the correct angle for correcting a small slide. Whereas the SC2 so far has let me turn the wheel past that point, and when a slide begins (and it rips the wheel away from me) I may have been turned too far, so I have to guess where to put the wheel to catch the slide (which is very hard to do when it's trying to rip it back and forth!).
Anyway, take this all with a grain of salt - I've only spent half an hour with it, these are very early comparison thoughts. I'm extremely pleased and pleasantly surprised with everything else about the SC2, and hopeful I can get the above issue adjusted via the filters or simply adjusting my driving style to the SC2.
@Andrew_WOT yes, thank you, I did see that setting and tried adjusting it at the time. Turning off static force reduction made the behavior closer to what I was used to, and I'm optimistic I'll get it where I want it once I've had some more time to understand the various filter sliders.
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Yes, I feel that until some fundamental FFB technologies are improved/changed from how they've been since the 1990s (if not before), there's always going to be some aspects of FFB that are just fundamentally going to be wrong (inaccurate, too powerful, too sharp and accelerative, too soft or powerful relative to other forces, etc.). That's one of the main reasons for these filters like damping, inertia, friction, sfr, recon, slew-rate, etc. Don't let it discourage you; with the SC2, Granity have some of the best filters, maybe the very best filters around from every thing I've read. I can almost guarantee you that you're going to find a feeling you like just as much as your Fana DD, if not more.Yes, it's something like that. I'll have to spend some more time with it, I've only had about half an hour and have been busy with work since
The DD2 also seemed to put up quite a fight if you tried turning the wheel further than the limit of useful traction in a turn, so you were likely already close to the correct angle for correcting a small slide. Whereas the SC2 so far has let me turn the wheel past that point, and when a slide begins (and it rips the wheel away from me) I may have been turned too far, so I have to guess where to put the wheel to catch the slide (which is very hard to do when it's trying to rip it back and forth!).
Anyway, take this all with a grain of salt - I've only spent half an hour with it, these are very early comparison thoughts. I'm extremely pleased and pleasantly surprised with everything else about the SC2, and hopeful I can get the above issue adjusted via the filters or simply adjusting my driving style to the SC2.
@Andrew_WOT yes, thank you, I did see that setting and tried adjusting it at the time. Turning off static force reduction made the behavior closer to what I was used to, and I'm optimistic I'll get it where I want it once I've had some more time to understand the various filter sliders.
Direction 1
I was gonna say try adding static force reduction but you said you like it better without it.
Direction 2
Try adding a bit of fiction, damping, and reconstruction filter. See how that is.
Direction 3
What you can also try is setting the slew-rate limit to a lower value; when doing so, you may be able to actually reduce damping (and possibly friction and maybe recon filter too). I had a large mige ionicube OSW and then an SC1 over 3 years and the slew-rate, from what I've read about it, is something I feel DD wheels have always needed. I've already read of 2 DD owners who use much less damping & friction now because using slew-rate gives a better overall result.
Direction 4
Lower the torque bandwidth limit to, let's say, between 300 and 2000. You're probably running between 3000 and unlimited at the moment. Note: just like with the slew-rate, you may want to reduce damping and friction the lower you set tbl. If you're running lots of slew-rate limit (low #), you may want to increase that back up.
P.S. It's best to keep some recon filter on. So keep that on while experimenting with other settings.
Take my settings advice with a grain of salt too. I don't have the SC2 yet (next week).
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D
Deleted member 197115
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Deleted member 197115
Speaking of Slew Filter. Beano explains how it helped some SS2 owners move over to SC2
Here
Here
Beano said:Hi Chris,
Yeah, I made those comments quoted. In my humble opinion, Barry missed a significant opportunity to optimise the SC2 Pro he tested. In actual fact, by adjustung the Slew Rate parameter to between 0.15 and 0.25, you can 100% replicate the Bodnar SS2 feel. I hate that overly rubbery feel to the tyres, but some guys like it. It is all about personal taste. BUt yes, for sure I think Barry missed a trick wrt the True Drive tuning on this one, hopefully he revisits this again in the near future.
But the reality anyway is that the SC2 can emulate the feel of any of the current DD wheels available, including the SS2, as well as Podium series, plus still bring something unique to the table in terms of low latency and its own unque take on FFB.
There are 5 or so very fast iRacers and one real-life racer that has switched from SS2 to SC2 Pro and Ultimate, which I assisted to get the feeling they wanted. They are all of the opinion that there was a significant step-up from SS2 54 to SC2. Feedback just my own thoughts after having owned and tested all DD wheels, including SS2, DD2, SC2 Pro, Ultimate and Accuforce.
And of course, my Bogeyman OSW
Cheers,
Beano
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Thanks @Spinelli and @Andrew_WOT, I got both iRacing and pCars to a place where I'm pretty happy with them - I dropped the slew rate setting even lower (to about 1) and also lowered friction/damping a bit more.
Feeling great now, no negatives vs DD2, just seems to be uniformly better for me. I'll keep playing with the settings, but it's already such a better experience. I like how flexible the filters are, it sounds like Beano was spot-on in pointing out that you can emulate whatever sort of wheel behavior you want.
Feeling great now, no negatives vs DD2, just seems to be uniformly better for me. I'll keep playing with the settings, but it's already such a better experience. I like how flexible the filters are, it sounds like Beano was spot-on in pointing out that you can emulate whatever sort of wheel behavior you want.
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