Podium DD's VS Simucube 2's

Darren Byrne · Aug 21, 2019

Hi guys, the past while I was trying to find good comparisons between these two models of dd's. Has anyone tested both ? I understand that the software for these aren't complete yet but is there any clear winner here ? thanks.

Glaniu · Jan 30, 2020

Spinelli said:
If you turn the shaft of the AF, you can feel these littl bumps, it reminds me of a belt-drive with many tiny small ribs or teeth.
[/QUOT

In Podium is the same feeling

RCHeliguy · Jan 30, 2020

I've never noticed feeling anything remotely feeling like teeth with the SC 2 Pro.

Glaniu · Jan 30, 2020

apparently this can be felt in every magnet motor.

Deleted member 197115 · Jan 30, 2020

AF is stepper motor, Podium and SC use servo, one is ourunner, another inrunner.
Stepper motors usually associated with notchy feeling because they move rotor in fixed increments (steps) from one pole to another. Servo is using encoder to calculate the position, and can have millions of steps making it much smoother and precise. SC2 Pro has 22bit encoder, not sure about Podium.
I think you can feel steps only by turning unpowered servo, it's butter smooth when power is on.

mrbean_phillip · Jan 30, 2020

Glaniu said:
apparently this can be felt in every magnet motor.

‘Motor-technology plays a role here as well.

Steppers require a significant effort with electronics to try and manage Ripple/Cogging, it is an almost impossible task, electronics is not infinitely fast in switching, thus when you do very fast steering-movements during a race, this will manifest itself as a light ‘ripple’ in the ffb feel.

When you run ovals, you will most likely very seldom encounter these fast counter-steering moves....but on road, it is very common.

With its high pole-count, Outrunner servos, such as used in the Podium series, exhibits a similar behaviour, to a degree. They are very torquey motors for their physical size, but as always, there are sacrifices to be made somewhere- in this case, relative smoothness when directly compared with inrunner-servos.

Inrunner-servos, by design, will be the smoothest, both powered and unpowered. But pound for pound, less torque than Outrunner...but this is of no consequence where DD wheels are concerned. There is a reason high-quality CNC machines are using Inrunner-style servos, and no other technology. Relating specifically to DD wheels, other technologies are used by manufacturers to get a good-enough end-result, whilst allowing them to maximise profits, no other reason.

But if you want the best wheel out there, an Inrunner-style design will almost always be the best....of course, realise control-electronics, software and firmware all plays a critical role, but all else designed equal, nothing will beat Inrunners in smoothness.

‘Just sharing my take on the different technologies, we all have different means, requirements, et al, glad there are options to meet your demands

Cheers,
Beano

RaceNut · Jan 31, 2020

Controlling oscillation with DD-wheels isn't difficult, it's just a matter of finding the sweet spot in rotational speed, FFB strength and the details wanted. Even when some fine detail is sacrificed for speed & control (generally via dampening), the resulting FFB is still excellent (imo), and more realistic.

In fact, some titles (PC2 for example) perform much better (car handling) with quite a bit of dampening applied. Often, there are ways to increase some of the detail to compensate, if needed. The AccuForce (with SimCommander) is excellent for that purpose but, some titles also allow for additional tweaks to provide more detail / boost effects.

RaceNut · Jan 31, 2020

I purchased a used button-box (DSD) and added a budget rim for a total investment under $250 but, later added Ascher Racing magnetic shifters. I believe the DSD button-box kits are still available as a relatively low cost DIY option, as well as others.

Wmacky · Feb 2, 2020

Link?

Timobkg · Mar 3, 2020

Mr Latte said:
This is one of the problems if choosing the Simucube 2 path, additional rims are also likely going to cost more money too and quite a premium if you want some of the best. In comparison, the Porsche GT3 rim (to me) looks a bargain (in comparison) when considering what each offers.

I'm looking at the two options right now, and I actually see it as exactly the opposite. Getting the Podium DD effectively locks you into the Fanatec ecosystem and limits you to their rims or paying a hefty premium if you want the best.

Podium DD2 = $1500
Podium Porsche wheel = $650
Shipping = $20
Total = $2170

Simucube 2 Pro = $1337
Asher Racing F28-SC wireless wheel = $580 when purchased with SC2
Shipping $125
Total = $2042

Now, from what I've seen and heard, the Asher Racing wheels are fantastic and arguably better than any wheel from Fanatec, and here you can get the SC2 Pro and the Asher wireless wheel for $130 less.

If you want to use your own wheel rim, it's only $55 for the SC2 quick release (if you already used the one included with the SC2) versus $200 (+$20 shipping) for the Fanatec Podium hub.

If you want to mount a button box on your own rim, you could get the Asher wireless button box for $500 ($455 when purchased with the SC2) and it's not that much more than the $400 hub + button module from Fanatec.

And if you want to go wheel crazy, like Heliguy did, and buy an $800+ wheel, that'll cost you an additional $200 on the DD2.

It seems like the DD2 is great if you already have a collection of Fanatec wheels you love or are happy staying entirely within the Fanatec wheel ecosystem, but if you want to be able to pick and choose from all the many high-end aftermarket wheels and rims available then the SC2 is the better option.

Hiro Abe · Mar 3, 2020

One of my key reasons in going with an SC2 was that Fanatec doesn't have a rim that meets my preferences. Also, don't forget with the SC2 Sport which, obviously, is less than the Pro, I was all in with both wheelbase and AR wheel for a pretty attractive $1800 USD (including shipping). I'm about a month in with the Sport and have zero regrets on going with SC2s base model. Plenty strong and plenty of feedback.

ShinyAndy · Mar 3, 2020

Hiro Abe said:
I'm about a month in with the Sport and have zero regrets on going with SC2s base model. Plenty strong and plenty of feedback.

I'm putting off the inevitable for as long as possible, what wheelbase did you come from out of interest?

Hiro Abe · Mar 3, 2020

@ShinyAndy I had a CSW v2.5 w/McLaren GT3 wheel. Also had the F1 v2 wheel but I just couldn't get used to it. Too small in diameter for me.

Furnace Inferno · Mar 3, 2020

The two negatives of the SC2 wireless system though are that it needs batteries and it doesn’t seem to support clutches from what I’ve seen and not sure if it can?

I’m sticking to an Accuforce for now and seeing what comes plus SimCommander is super useful for rubbish in-game FFB like the Dirt series. I’d like a little more juice from the wheel but I don’t trust Fanatec reliability but the SC2 wireless isn’t quiet there yet.

I could just get the SC2 Pro base and use my current wheels but those sweet Ascher rims call to me!

Timobkg · Mar 3, 2020

Furnace Inferno said:
The two negatives of the SC2 wireless system though are that it needs batteries and it doesn’t seem to support clutches from what I’ve seen and not sure if it can?

I’m sticking to an Accuforce for now and seeing what comes plus SimCommander is super useful for rubbish in-game FFB like the Dirt series. I’d like a little more juice from the wheel but I don’t trust Fanatec reliability but the SC2 wireless isn’t quiet there yet.

I could just get the SC2 Pro base and use my current wheels but those sweet Ascher rims call to me!

The Asher wheels and button boxes say that the included battery should last for 3 years, after which you can replace it. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but it seems like battery life isn't an issue. If so, then it's like active pickups on guitar - sure, they use batteries, and some people point it out as a negative, but when a single battery lasts 12-24 months it's really not an issue and those people are nitpicking.

I don't know about clutch support, it's not really an issue for me. It's definitely early days for the Simucube wireless system, so there's a hope that as more people work with it the functionality will increase while prices decrease.

Furnace Inferno · Mar 3, 2020

Timobkg said:
The Asher wheels and button boxes say that the included battery should last for 3 years, after which you can replace it. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but it seems like battery life isn't an issue. If so, then it's like active pickups on guitar - sure, they use batteries, and some people point it out as a negative, but when a single battery lasts 12-24 months it's really not an issue and those people are nitpicking.

I don't know about clutch support, it's not really an issue for me. It's definitely early days for the Simucube wireless system, so there's a hope that as more people work with it the functionality will increase while prices decrease.

Oh I’m not saying it’s a massive issue just a con vs. not needing one at all. Plus as I said I could just get or use my current USB ones as I do quiet like the wire in VR for working out when the wheel is straight after a crash/restart.

Hiro Abe · Mar 3, 2020

It is a fact that the SC2 wireless system does not support analog axis at this time. I received confirmation from Martin Ascher himself. I read somewhere that it is being looked into to provide more inputs than the 28 currently offered. I have no idea if this would include support for analog axis. Currently, this is the only negative for me since I only run a brake/throttle setup. It is somewhat transparent to me since I solely run GT3 which you don't use a clutch once you get going so I have my sims set for auto-clutch.

I'm a hopin'!

Oh, btw - I've had zero issues with the wireless connection thus far. I'm not bothering to turn off my AR wheel. If I get 2 years out of it without having to change the battery... I'm more than satisfied in that regard.

super_gt · Mar 4, 2020

Deleted

DrewRosenHouse · Mar 5, 2020

Hiro Abe said:
It is a fact that the SC2 wireless system does not support analog axis at this time. I received confirmation from Martin Ascher himself. I read somewhere that it is being looked into to provide more inputs than the 28 currently offered. I have no idea if this would include support for analog axis. Currently, this is the only negative for me since I only run a brake/throttle setup. It is somewhat transparent to me since I solely run GT3 which you don't use a clutch once you get going so I have my sims set for auto-clutch.

I'm a hopin'!

Oh, btw - I've had zero issues with the wireless connection thus far. I'm not bothering to turn off my AR wheel. If I get 2 years out of it without having to change the battery... I'm more than satisfied in that regard.

A v2 version of the SC2 wireless board is said to be in the works which will support clutches.