Project 8020 Rig with Tactile from Obutto Revolution

[Balroque]

I have in my head long time the project similar to Ceolmar with rig and tactiles isolated from floor and from other rig parts.
I also want to upgrade from Obutto to aluminium extrusion.
As I have osw large mige at the moment (probably will replace it with small) and HE Ultimate pedals, there is now some flexibility in the rig.
But to be honest, Im using it partly as an excuse to make a change and start something new.

There are options either to buy rig, which is already done, like Sim-lab P1 or to build one. Im still in the process to consider all the pros and cons, while getting the quotes and making plans.

To buy one (Sim-Lab P1)
+ quality of the rig is according to some reviews great
+ guys at Sim-Lab are very customer service oriented and supportive
- cost, especially for shipping (NZ) is high
- is prebuilt, so to make any additional custom changes will make the price even higher

To build one
+ much more fun while building it
+ more custom adjustments possible
- quality of custom made pieces and extrusion can vary, especially when made in china
- cost could be lower, but also because of mistakes in design or in quality of pieces can be much higher

This will be a long run as Im not in a rush; all ideas and constructive discussions will be very appreciated.

targets are:
- enjoy myself on the process doing this
- build an sturdy extrusion rig based partly on Simlab P1, Heusinkveld Rig and few tips from Obutto
- keep the variability to use it as working station for other games
- for flight games (especially Elite, SC if they will ever finish it)
- for all other games (BB2, FPS games, etc)
- take tactiles feedback to higher level and isolate it as best as possible - in reasonable price range
- decrease the noise of the rig
- prepare it for far far future motion upgrade
- not to ruin my bank account and keep my marriage
- and last not least sharing this journey here and maybe at Iracing forum too

some of the challenges:
- rig itself must be in nook in living room, so the access is only on right side, as from the other sides are walls. It means access, keyboard tray and the shifter with hand handbreak must be from one side.
- the floor are wooden boards covered with carpet, beneath are living tenants at ground floor, paying really well and obviously I don't want them move out because of earthquake
- because of the nook there is no way to have 3 monitors, that's why I have chosen curved tv 4k 48". TV is quite high and must be placed behind Mige, which reduces FOV (I've tried Oculus and decide to wait for future generations)
- where and how to position 4 bass shakers to be as effective as possible in CM and isolated from all other parts
- Where to attach "rear wheels shakers" – to rig or seat. If the "rear wheels" are attached to the seat and isolated, put the buttkicker still under the seat? it seems to be too much in same place, however it could simulate engine vibrations. If they will be attached to rig, it would transfer vibrations to whole rig
- where to attach "front wheels" - pedal tray vs rig and where to isolate
- and a lot of more coming...

First step - review my current rig and adjustments I made at Obutto
Second step - share plans and finalise design
Third step - process of building the rig

My current setup
Simucube OSW Large Mige / Heusinkveld Ultimate / Fanatec Porsche 918 RSR Wheel / Fanatec F1 Carbon Wheel / Fanatec Shifter SQ 1.5 / Fanatec Handbreak / Obutto R3volution / Buttkicker Gamer2 in extension mode / 4 IDX Maximus Bass shakers with 2 of SMSL SA-98E in chassis mode / Gametrix KW-908 / 2 clark 339 (sitting in the box at the moment) / 49" Samsung curved 4k / Sam Maxwell Nascar Screen / 2 ipads / Thrustmaster Hotas Warthog, Saitek Ruddle Pedals

 

[Balroque]

Lets start

As I mentioned before Rig is in Living room nook.


Good thing is that Im still present in living room and my wife is not complaining that Im locked somewhere else. On the otherside, Im using headphones all the time and all noise coming out of my place are crucial

Closing doors, when she decides Im a naughty (noisy) boy

 

[Balroque]

Motor mount

there are new drilled holes into the plate to mount Mige, I tried to drill them as close to back edge as possible to move steering wheel further away from me


I used Fanatec CSW 2.0 base before and I wanted to get more freedom to move the base up and down. With Obutto you can do that only under certain angle up and forward at once, which brings your steering wheel not only higher but closer too.

I made these steel plates in local CNC cutting shop. They are two of them to get better stiffness and more variability to use only one or both of them. With these options for adjusting the base improved rapidly


They fit right there, and I used them both way upside down. Just need to pull rectangular tube from frame 1cm out.


Here some more pictures for Mige mount for Cosimo

 

[Balroque]

Seat

Gametrix KW-908 over my seat, but not using it much, at least not for simracing. There are another 5 bass shakers on the rig, and it is just adding confusion to that. It is not quiet either. While you have earphones on your head, it is alright, otherwise it's annoying. Im just keeping it for other non racing games to improve immersion.

Takata racing harness is great. It was originally 5 bolt one, but Im using just 4 bolts now, as I believe it should be safe enough.
When any visiting friends were doubting my sanity, when they see this, they are all clear.


I've used 2 sets of this pieces of wood under my seat when I got the feeling need to lift it up

 

[elloLeo Kinnunen]

I'm most of the way through the journey you're just about to start. I went from small mige and HE pros on obutto r3v to a new 8020 profile rig from https://www.racelogic.com.au/ - it's not listed on their website yet so you'll have to contact the owner Chin to discuss options. He's also active on iracing forums but has a newborn so there might be a wait. Plus side is that shipping to NZ won't be as horrendous as from Sim-Lab in France.

How come you want to check your new settings with obutto (if I read that part correctly)? I was pretty disappointed with them. I'd asked if it would be strong enough for the higher end wheel and pedals and they told me it was... but I had significant flex on both wheel and pedal deck.

 

[Balroque]

Hi Leo,
thanks for your inputs

I know Chin, he is great guy, I made some business with him a while ago. He was selling only HE GT rig in the past. I didn't know he would have some new one.

I can see what you are saying about Obutto for Mige and HE pedals. When I increase break pedal resistance over 60kg on my one, even the seat is bending. I had Obutto now for more then 3 years, and over alI I was quite happy with it, especially with Fanatec V3 pedals and CSW2.
What I like about it, is the versatility and that I would like to keep at 8020 rig as well.

 

[Balroque]

Pedals
at original mounting, pedals are quite low compare to the seating position. Whena I got my HE pedals, I wanted to get them more close to GT position as per drawing from Heusinkveld web site.

So I made this temporary solution just to try it.
I couldn't get as high as I would like to, because there is not enough clearance. But it feels much better, little bit less bending as well.

Obviously as Im thinking to replace the whole rig Im not going to replace this with some permanent solution.

 

[Balroque]

Shifter
I mount the shifter to the front part of the rig and not next to the seat as usual, made just few more holes to the steel base sliders. Because of that Im able to turn the shifter all way out, even behind TV, when not using it

I've made custom plate to accommodate shifter and hand break on it. There is a known issue with ground on the Fanatec hand break. I had to use plastic bolts and isolate handbreak from metal construction.

 

[Balroque]

Tactile immersion
I have 3 sound cards in computer at the moment, one on board for sound itself and 2 dedicated to bass shakers. One in chassis mode and other one in extension mode. It is little bit nightmare if reinstalling Windows.

Ive got 4 ADX Maximus 4 ohms bass shakers. What I read, they are similar to Auras. They are powered by 2 amplifiers SMSL 98E 2x160W, and as they have no fan - no any noise.
(I've got 2 Clarks 339, which are all weather versions of TST329 Gold transducers and Im keen to get some feedback if SMSL will be enough to power them (Mr. Latte?) or which amplifier should I upgrade to. There are some obvious options like Behringer 1000DSP, which I heard are great, but noisy! because of fan. Another question would be were to put them as I've got only two at the moment. )
But back to current setup.


ADX Maximus are great, Im using them with Simvibe and this is endless process to tune them. As I didn't use any better in the past, I have no any comparison and Im quite happy with them. Lets see Clarks in the future setup.

I made custom steel plates in local workshop to mount them to the rig, it is simple enough. Rear ones are mounted from outside and because of monitor holder sliders in the front , I put the front ADX inside.

As all of them are mounted to the same frame, it is interfering. This is what I would like to improve in future on aluminium rig. To separate "all 4 wheels".


Buttkicker gamer2 is now mounted under the seat to the cross tube which is connecting both sides of the frame, it works but same as before, I would like to find better solution for future

Last but not least is an isolation from floor. At the moment Im using 6 home made rubber pads under the rig, hard rubber from top and bottom and softer in the middle, glued together, to separate rig from the floor. This is major and I would probably go Ceomar way on his project

 

[Ceolmor]

When buying my 80/20 rig there was not the choice there is now. I went with a KPCR Piez Rig Expert from Motedis in Germany. (I am in UK) I found it was cheaper to buy the complete kit from them than to source all the parts elsewhere myself. I have made so many additions and changes to the rig since I got it that it bears little resemblance to the original.

If I was getting an 80/20 rig now, I would definitely go with the 120mm or 160mm high profiles for the base. Mine are only 40mm, which is not a problem if sitting directly on the floor, but when I placed it on the mdf platform with isolators I needed lots of isolators underneath to prevent flex in the 80/20 profiles from the weight above.

The way I currently have my pedal section of the rig allows me to raise or lower the height of the HE pedal plate. At present my position is close to the GT seating position in the HE diagram above, but with the pedal plate about level with my backside.

I have the same shifter and handbrake as you. They are both bolted directly to the 80/20 rig and I have no grounding issues. I don't have any, but Sim-Lab do lots of nice brackets for attaching them.

 

[Balroque]

Great comment Ceolmor, thanks for that
Im glad you confirmed my decision to go with 40160 frame. Im sure we will discuss many details further when I will get to plans and ideas of new rig, and of course if you will be so kind and willing to do that

 

[Balroque]

monitor
Ive decided to use 4k tv couple years ago and still don't regret this decision. Because of the space I can't use 3 monitors. 4K TV has few challenges like bigger lag time, refresh rate 60Hz (already sorted out), HDMI UHD, etc. The biggest issue is that the size as it is too tall, it has to stay behind the motor mount. With Fanatec CSW 2 it was not as big problem, with small Mige is worse and obviously Large Mige is putting the TV even further. It means to decrease FOV.
On pictures bellow you can see it is like 1cm behind the motor mount. As the stand for TV is separetad from the rig, there is no problem it would shake or touch the Mige.

Big advantage of Obutto monitor stand is, I can move monitor closer for simracing games or as far as possible for other games very easy


so when the steering wheel is off and TV moved away, I can see what is happening in the bottom of monitor. Which I can't see when TV is just behind the Mige!

I've got Sam Maxwell Nascar Screen above the TV and I love it. I was using Z1 dashboard, now mostly using Simhub for more variability and it is great. The size is just perfect.

I made a steel holder and attached it to Vesa mounter


The option for the upgrade is 49" Samsung curved 144 Hz monitor, which should be less tall, so it could fit above the motor mount. The only things stopping me are the price, the size is 1-2 inches more then the space in nook to close the doors and potentially free sync as I have Nvidia graphic card. But again there is no rush

 

[Cosimo]

Awesome @Balroque !

I have an Obutto R3volution too, and I'm considering an OSW with small Mige motor.
Would it be possible to see how you bolted your motor to the existing wheel stand deck?

I looked at drawings and size of the Mige motor and it doesn't look like it's possible to bolt it on.
Would be great to be able to see how you did that.

 

[Peter Klawitter]

@Balroque great post with so many details! super good! just really curious about that Top mounted display and Simhub? can you explain/ elaborate more on that also? how it works? pictures what it shows? display and use?

 

[Balroque]

Thanks Cosimo and Rocafella1978

I will put a picture of Simhub in this part and some comments to it and Mige mount picture to previous part with motor mount, let me know if you would need any more pictures or comments

Ipads and Sam Maxwell display


On left Ipad Im using Z1 dashboard, however not that often as I don't have time to look at it while racing anyway. Z1 dashboards are great and giving most accurate informations for Iracing and you can choose from many different. I would wish for two upgrades - to be able to personalise the dashboards to your own liking incl size of fonts, etc and secondly to have it over wifi. Using third party apps like X-display in my case is far from ideal


Right ipad
using air keyboard as button box. I found it more convenient then Roccat Power-Grid. It is quite easy to use it and personalise. I used some already made one from someone else and change it to my liking. Even can use it instead of mouse in some cases as u see the pad in the middle bottom. You can find my one in air keyboard library


I bought two simple holders for ipads with magnet in the middle and attached them to Obutto holder



Simhub is great app made by guy Wotever and I love it! There was some kind of small donation to get it fully unlocked, don't remember how much but nothing dramatic. I like about it how you can personalise it, there are plenty already made dashboards or you can make your one, swap dashboards by buttons, etc. I made my one based on some others. It is not that simple and easy to make them and as it supports so many games, it would need time to tune all data inputs and be rid of all mistakes. For example as you can see Sector time doesn't work correctly, something what works on Z1 dashboards smoothly. But Wotever is very friendly guy and open to suggestions and implementing them quickly.

 

[Balroque]

Computer, simucube, ...


Using i5 6600k 37% overclocked and Geforce 1080


Simucube, two SMSL 98E and buttkicker


and I bought recently this powered usb hub. It helps to cable management a lot and it has 3 powering usb's, which is great for Ipads, while computer usb's were struggling to power them


And thats all for current Obutto Rig, next move - plans and ideas for new 8020 rig

 

[Cosimo]

Great @Balroque. I see you added some more pictures, that's great. Thank you.
From the pictures it seems you didn't modify the original obutto wheel deck in any way.
Did you have to drill more holes in the wheel deck?

Also, the bracket you used to bolt down the mige to the wheel deck, did you buy it as a separate accessory? Was it included in your OSW kit?

Thanks much.

 

[Balroque]

Hi Cosimo, thats correct, I didn't need to modify obutto wheel deck, just drilled 4 more holes into it.
Motor bracket was a part of Simracing Bay kit and didn't need any adjustments.

But keep in the mind, Obutto without any further modification is struggling to handle OSW wheel

 

[Balroque]

8020 Rig

I will do all the plans in Sketchup and then try to transform them to DSX and hope to get some result to be used with CNC machine. I've tried to find out any direct conversion from skp to step files, but it is obviously more complex and complicated

As I have no any experience with 8020, I took as a basic concept Simlab P1 and put it into Sketchup. It is based on youtube video and some other pictures.

There is still an option, if final rig will be close enough to sim-lab itself, just to order one



Motor mount 15mm thick - I've just extend the options for for Accuforce as it is on HE Rig
Biggest risk I can see here is if I drew the mounting holes correctly or if they do them correctly

I've got two quotes for all custom made parts, one in alluminium from China and other one from steel locally. Price is quite similar, but to have these piece made in steel, it would be probably just too heavy.

Side motor mounts - 10mm thickness

Motor mount together with side mounts


Pedals mount

 

[Balroque]

Shifter arm
Not sure how to mount it. As my access to rig is from right side I can't use the solution which Sim-lab is using. It seems very sturdy, however not to simple to change hight


I was thinking to make something similar I have at the moment at Obutto. The arm which you can turn in and lock and when not using it, just turn it away. My concerns are if this would be sturdy enough, not just for shifter but especially for HE Hand Break, which I've got recently and Obutto holder is bending like hell when using it. I drew two options, the only difference is 4040 in frame or 40120
Option 1

Option 2
Handle lock supposed to be on both versions, picture shows it only on the one bellow

Obviously with either of these, it is adjustable up and down and forward backward
So my question is How sturdy would be the solution like this and if Im missing something, all comments and ideas are very welcome