Real Head Motion Question

[John Norden]

I have installed RHM v1.0.4.2, along with RHD Starter.
Can someone please explain the difference between "Steer Look Ahead L/R" on the main page,
and "Look Left Right Angle" on the Look Options page?

Also some suggestions for fairly mild settings.
I don't drift and have just started with AC.
I have already found with my current naive RHM settings, that looking into the corner has improved my times.
However, I find I am getting slight motion sickness after only 10-20 minutes.

Any advice would be really appreciated.

 

[Greg Pugliese]

Steer Look Ahead is how much you automatically look into the corners when the wheel is turned; Look Left/Right is what angle your view moves when you assign a button to RHM's Look Left and Look Right functions.

 

[John Norden]

Thanks Greg - perfect explanation.
Can you, or anyone else help me with my motion sickness problem?
My main current settings are :-
Pitch & Roll Filters - both 90% (set to "car pitch/roll")
Steer Look Ahead LR - 30.00 (Min/Max - 0.00/0.50)
Steer Look Ahead Roll - 10.00 (Min/Max - 0.00/0.50)

 

[Kek700]

This is a complicated situation, it could have many causes. I am assuming it is only
with AC driving game for the purpose of this response.
I am in a simular situation and these are my steps " not always too successful "
to help. Reduce blue light ( monitor or glasses) , reduce monitor flicker ,run monitor
at highest "repeatable" frequency you can. Breath properly whilst playing could be
oxygen starvation ( holding your breath) , monitor light output strength.
The list goes on and on
Use a g-sync or free sync monitor if possible and if you can afford it a wide screen
one 21:9 , they can be bought at a reasonable price now. And it also help's a lot
with steering into tight bends. In fact I think this is a really good compromise.
I run pitch and roll at 80% and don't use steer look ahead. This is to carm every thing
down. Until recently I struggled with AC own fixed and fixed to horizon with the "being
in a boat" or the cars in front juddering. I sit quite close to the monitor, this may not be
a good idea but my reasoning is that it makes me look more within the monitor screen.
I have seen this before in these forums so someone else may have more insight to
this problem.

 

[Jempy]

Simply reducing Pitch and Roll effects ( especially the Roll one ) will help a lot for your motion sickness problem.

That's what I did when I was using RMH .... and even still do with TrackIR now ( or TrackNoIR at the time when I had the same problem as yours ). It works perfectly to heal your sickness.

EDIT:
In fact, motion sickness is more related to an internal ear sensibility than a visual consequence.
On a boat, roll and pitch at the same time have mostly the worst effect for motion sickness if your internal ear is very sensible.
( First time I traveled across the Channel, it was storm at sea .... I was really very sick ).

Strange maybe to have this problem with a visual effect only, but read a bit more about motion sickness at sea ... and you'll understand better why it may happen.
Generally +-95% get accustomed to it .... but 5% never do.
Worst, simply remembering pitch and roll on a boat ... might even cause this motion sickness for some people.

 

[John Norden]

Thanks Guys.
Not a lot I can do about my monitor at the moment (Dell 24"; 16:9; 60 Hz).
Haven't yet tested the fps during AC but I am using a GeForce GTX 970 graphics card, with my quality settings in AC wound back a bit.
Regarding the blue tint, if I still have problems, I might try some of those amber coloured "sunglasses" that are supposed to improve vision in poor conditions.

I normally don't get seasick too much, but that's probably because I take anti-motion tablets ahead of time if I know the sea will be rough.
However, just watching something definitely effects me. I remember watching The Blair Witch Project, and having to walk out 3/4 of the way through because I felt sick. That would have been because most of it was shot with a hand held camera while they were walking or running.
Maybe that's a good reason to raise my Pitch/Roll filters above 90%.

Another question :-
When setting the "Steer Look Ahead L/R" (and "Steer Look Ahead Roll"), are these automatically linked to the steering wheel, and binding is not necessary?

 

[Kek700]

Try 80% roll and pitch also put steer look ahead and come to that all other settings at 0.00
Try it, then start to add some steer look ahead untill it gives you just enough angle in tight corners.
Strangely i found this to be the worst for eye strain ( steer look ahead ). Had to set it
to 0.00 in the end and one reason i went for 21:9 monitor which i now regret selling.
Remove vertical sync and set frame rate to 60 in AC Ui.

Hope I am not being too obvious.

 

[John Norden]

Try 80% roll and pitch also put steer look ahead and come to that all other settings at 0.00
Try it, then start to add some steer look ahead untill it gives you just enough angle in tight corners.
Strangely i found this to be the worst for eye strain ( steer look ahead ). Had to set it
to 0.00 in the end and one reason i went for 21:9 monitor which i now regret selling.
Remove vertical sync and set frame rate to 60 in AC Ui.

Hope I am not being too obvious.

Hi Kek
What would be your reason for using RHM is you didn't use it to look into a corner - which is what you would naturally do in a real car.
I understand what you are saying though - set everything (apart from the filtering) to zero, then slowly increase the Steer Look Ahead until you find a comfortable setting.
I have already set everything to zero except the Steer Look Ahead Pitch/Roll.
So I will do as you say (including trying the 80% filters) and will let you know my results.
I'll also check my video settings in AC.
BTW, I've just done the graphics Test in AC, and I ended up with average FPS of 74 (Min 33; Max 101) with CPU of 90%.

Cheers

 

[Jempy]

Hello John,

Test the settings advised by Ernie .... but do them one by one, so that you understand better the result of each step. Once a step gives good result for you ... do the same with the second one, .... and so on.
IIRC you may use Alt-Tab staying on track and have the RHM settings page above ... and I even think you may even still turn the wheel and see the result directly on screen. ( but not 100% sure about that, as it's been a long time now I don't use RHM.

With good settings, RHM may be a good solution if you cannot afford a TrackIR. The main advantage of the second is ... the movements in game are not linked to your wheel or buttons, but well to your own head moves .... ( and of course less or even no motion sickness with it ).

@Kek700
I understand well you may regret your 21:9, I did the contrary a few months ago ... from a 16:9 to a 21:9 ( but only a 29" ) ... and I'd surely not wish to go back to the previous one..... but just a larger 21:9

 

[Kek700]

I went triple monitors without fully realizing the PC overheads that it would create.
So from an easy to drive 144hz 2560 x 1080 which gave a good representation of
what a drivers forward view would be and with RHM helping in corners.
I am now stuck with an , I now can't go back situation of triple 144hz monitors with
low frame rates and stutter that sometime occur with on line racing.

It's not exactly , a poor old sod situation , how can he survive this terrible predicament .

But if I had better foresight it could have all been avoided.

In my defense though I had expected GPU technology to have easily caught up.
It was less than 12 months that the gtx1080ti easily out classed my gtx980ti.
and for pretty much the same price .
I also assumed that AMD free sync would be adopted eventually by nvidia . I mean who
in there right mind is going to pay £200 premium for g-sync.... Wrong again.

Bit of a long winded response , but this has been a bit of an issue for me of late.

It will pass.

 

[John Norden]

Thanks again, guys.
Just realised that both of you are almost as old as me.
It's nice to know that I'm not the only old fart enjoying sim driving.

@Kek700 Haven't had a chance to give your suggested settings a good run yet, but last night I put everything on 0.00 except the Filters, and kept Steer Look Ahead L/R on 30 and SLA Roll on 10. It definitely felt better.
When I get a bit more time, I will put the SLA settings on zero (as you suggested) and slowly increase the SLA L/R to see the effect.

@Jempy I'll see if your hot key idea works. I had previously used the Windows key to bring up the RHM screen.

@Kek700 Don't get rid of the triple monitors - just buy a whole new cutting-edge rig with three cutting-edge graphics cards in SLI mode.

A question to both of you :-
The 21:9 single screens you have used, were they flat or curved? I've often thought that a curved screen is a gimmick as a TV, but could be used for games/driving where your eyes are relatively close to the screen.
My eyes are actually 95cm (37") from my screen, as I have to clamp a piece of thick ply onto my pc desk as my wheel can't clamp directly onto my desk.
This results in me having to set a very narrow FOV (calcs say 18deg.) which could be contributing to my queasy feeling when driving?

 

[Jempy]

Thanks again, guys.
Just realised that both of you are almost as old as me.
It's nice to know that I'm not the only old fart enjoying sim driving.

I like the "Almost" ... when I just looked at yours

Now, for the 21:9 .... mine is flat and only a 29". At the start, my meaning was to buy a curved one, as a league friend had just got one and was very pleased with it.

But I quickly noticed that it should be impossible for me: in place of +- 300€ ... I'd have to spend more than 800€ for a 34"..... no place enough and also no money enough. So I'll surely never know if a curved one has a better result in Simracing than a flat one.

This 29" 21:9 is fixed on the wall with a cheap but perfect wall bracket .. moveable in all directions and comes just behind the wheel ( Logitech G27 with Playseat Challenge ... ).
I also calculated the advised FOV .... normally +- 26 ( but I already forgot ) .... but I never could get accustomed to this FOV ... but I'm now at ease with a 32 - 35 one... according to the car I'm driving, but mostly 35.

When I see that yours is at 18 .... I understand better the problem you have with RHM. Everything seems so big and near that everything on screen surely seems to move too much and surely too quickly .... one of the reason of the motion sickness you're feeling.

Realistic FOV is fine if you feel comfortable with it .... but mostly you'll have to do some concessions to it..... and modify slightly ( or more ) this FOV until you're more comfortable with it. ( at the start anyway, and maybe try to lower it afterwards step by step after a time ).

Find your minimum personal FOV with which you're at ease for driving .... and you'll be fine.

NB: not only FOV is important ... but also the settings of your view in car cockpit.
Mostly I keep the car wheel visible to do those settings .... I try to make the car wheel correspond with mine, save the settings and hide the wheel in game afterwards. One wheel is enough... mine !
But TrackIR allows to see more of the dashboard instruments if necessary

 

[Kek700]

...........
Hi Kek
What would be your reason for using RHM is you didn't use it to look into a corner - which is what you would naturally do in a real car
.........
Jempy has really covered it all, i will answer the above though. It may help.

If i use the normal fixed view. ( i think you have to untick the fixed to horizon box in AC which
works very well on a flat circuit like Silverstone, if still somewhat irritating.)

Even though i have now got a much better FPS the views of the cars around me is still
juddering, jumping.
If you are following a car closely the car will shake or judder because at that close
distance even with highish FPS it appears to amplify the fact that it is still single images
stuck together in series. It may be that my brain has become sensitised to this.
If i use RHM we’re the image is mimicking your natural eye to subject the car in front
appears more fluid. ( this is also true with AC fixed to horizon) And i can also calm
down the chassis jumping and bobbing about.
ie the 80% bit, without loosing too much of the natural eye line to object stability in front.

This juddering causes me eye strain, RHM goes a long way in reducing this.

The steering in the corner bit made me feel a bit woozy unless it was really
dumbed down for the sharpest of corners, were it worked well.

If you cannot quite make sense of the above babbling.

Pick brands hatch gp circuit.
Use gt3 .
Create 20 AI.
Pick which ever gt3 car you drive.
Start the race.
And as traffic lights count down press cntrl C
Now your car is controlled via AI
You can now just watch the motion in front of you, change RHM parameters,
Remove RHM app, then use locked to horizon, or use normal fixed view,
You may better observe how various choces effect your vision rarther than the driving
taking all you concentration.

Just one other point, i sit about 24” from my front 27” monitor. if i then
sit in my road car the two views coincide quite well. So when in my seat all the
proportions seem correct both inside and out including steering wheel and pedals.
( cannot remember my FOV ) , ( also i think triples Fov is calclated by AC )

But as Jempy has already covered all this , the above is really in agreement.
.

 

[Jempy]

press cntrl C

Good idea, Ernie .... I forgot this one even though I'm using it rather regularly for a quick test when my wheel is not in service..... and because the monitor is not the same one.

Easier to do so as you're concentrated on the result and not on your own driving.

 

[John Norden]

Wow!!! A lot to take in.
Now you've both made me realise that RHM, FOV and settings within AC could all effect the eye strain/ feeling I'm getting when I'm driving.
So Ernie, what you are saying is that RHM will work while AC is in AI mode, including any adjustments that you make. Definitely have to try that (and the suggestions that Jempy has made).

Regarding the FOV, I did the calculations and set the result into AC without questioning that my narrow FOV may be contributing to my problem.

@Jempy I was actually born in 1945.
But when registering, decided to put in 1965, as I couldn't imagine anyone in RaceDepartment being anywhere near my age.
Now that I know better, I've asked an Administrator to correct it.

 

[Jempy]

@John Norden
Then ...I owe you my respect ! ..... as you're older than me.

And, by the way, there are more older gentlemen still busy with simracing than you might think.... and not only at RD.
Some are surely very quick and surely also ..... quicker than I am !

Good luck with your work in order to have a driving view which will please you and help your driving.

 

[RobertR1]

Hop I can jump in here.

For a VR user, I currently only use Lock to Horizon option.

With RHM, I need to install RHM, leave it at defaults and disable "Lock to Horizon"

Is that pretty much it? Do I need to change the G-force percentage stuff also?

 

[Jempy]

Difficult to find something about that among more than 150 pages at AC Forum

Anyway the latest answer about this kind of settings is dated 2015 and this message by @Andrew_WOT

1) Default G, speed shake settings - horrible roller-coaster, bobbing head
2) Locked to horizon - fixed view, cockpit moves, lessened immersion
3) RHM - view is not fixed, some "filtered", smoothed out movement
4) Lowered speed shake, G-settings, (1x) - view is not fixed, some "tolerable movement", does not kill immersion completely

In my opinion, until RHM is fixed, option 4 is a nice "close enough" compromise. But this is me, YMMV.

As time passed by since this message and I don't use RHM for a long time now, surely someone else still using it might give you more infos about it.

NB: maybe he'll be able to tell you more about it .... he's also at RD and the added @ now will help for this

 

[Kek700]

......
Regarding the FOV, I did the calculations and set the result into AC without questioning that my narrow FOV may be contributing to my problem.
.......

Never thought I would be writing in racedepartment's forum to someone older, it's a very happy
moment for me (1947 )

Just checked I am only 20" away from my monitor, so I am actually looking though the
windscreen so to speak. ( I reckon that would equate to a FOV of about 36 )
The chassis movement is really out of my immediate view. And it still causes me problems.
If you have a FOV of 18 with the monitor 36" away. Looking at the chassis bobbing about
and with steer look ahead not optimally set so that any steering correction made prior or
after the corner and come to think of it on the straight to, causing a motion of the whole screen,
This would give me motion sickness too.

 

[Jempy]

Find something on the Web is more and more difficult when googling !

I'm searching among a full controversial or unuseful or disparate discussions to find a page in which there's a mention of which FOV ( vertical or horizontal ) is used for each Sim .... AC ( I think it's vertical ) - RRE - Automobilista - RF - RF2 - GTR2 - Pcars etc .... without finding it.

I wonder sometimes if some are not mixing them with doing mistakes in their calculations, only by not knowing this important difference.