AC Round 22 of 23 Formula Agile@Las Vegas, Thu, 16th Nov 2023

[HF2000]

NEW APPLICANTS WELCOME!

On 16th of November, four days before the Formula 1 event, we will drive in Sin City or Las Vegas as it's called. Take your car for a spin on The Strip! In case you don't have the track, there will be an "Install missing content" button in Content Manager for you. Click it, and after the download choose to install from the usual green ≡ menu in the top right corner. Join the practice server for some quick laps!

SIGN UP NOW!

First, there is an optional 60 minutes practice session, then a qualifying session which lasts for 20 minutes (plus a bit for people to finish their current hotlap).
The race format for this round is: one 60 minutes race, pit stop IS mandatory.

Further info (like weather etc.) can be found on the championship page by clicking on the purple button EVENT DETAILS at the bottom of the page in the Las Vegas event area.

Practice server is up!

Also, Click here to see the current standings in the championship (work in progress at the moment).

 

[maxilogan]

Today I practiced on this track and I must admit that it's far better than I thought (I usually hate city tracks). See you on track!

 

[HF2000]

Sorry guys,

I came very late out of work with a long drive home. Didn't feel like racing without practice.

 

[H_Belane]

It was fun as always.
It's difficult at the beginning when there are two races. The creator (nukedrop?) of the track did a good job.

To the F1 officials: No, not more tracks like this please. But money rules the world

 

[thom462]

Was a fun track actually. First of all sorry to Dai for the punt at the braking zone for turn 5. Think I was not braking too late but maybe left gap too narrow and I couldnt avoid hitting the back. Dont have replay as I disconnected. Sorry for that.
As well I violated track limits couple times especially at the turn before the long straight. Actually didn't gain much time as I saw split but didn't do it intentionally and it was not okay. Always struggled to get the car turned there.
Lap 1 turn 1 incident race 2 I dont know what happened as I have no replay but anyway I had the disconnect later so I would be last anyway.

cu all and thx for racing

 

[gearwhine]

Another self inflicted disaster with my new addiction to using less rear wing. Was running 7 front 1 rear and although mostly stable and very fast there is zero and i mean zero room for mistakes. The overall effect has not changed as in the speed gained is nearly always lost times over trying to recover the car from a spin. The advantage was actually working in the second race with me hanging out front for a good few laps with the ability to hold my gap at the end of the straights but then the enevitable happened. One small mistake and around it came and say goodbye to first place.
Not sure what happened with us Paul? I know you were passing me on the turn and i tried to hold my line. Unfortunately, my discord is not active so i was not able to discuss with you at the time. Anyway, made no difference to the outcome for me as i was already on a downward spiral.
Enjoyable though as always. Probably remove my rear wing completely for the last race unless i take my meds

 

[Shed 17]

Steve, at the time I wasn't sure what had happened in race 1, you were really quick down the straight with your super slippery set up but I got a tow off of Hank and got alongside in the braking zone. I thought I had left you enough room as we both went for the corner but with me on the racing line (and more grip?)I had a quicker entry.
Looking at the replay it looks like one of those regular 'racing' incidents we see in F1 (Checo and Charles at Mexico).
Apologies if I did take your corner, wasn't intentional and we were having some great battles before that. The recovery from that incident was comical as we both turned on full lock to go head on again

I was running more aero so had a fairly stable race car but did try low aero in practice and if you could hang onto it it was ballistic.

I really like this track but if we were to use it again l'd like to see an update to include some track limit penalties as super quick lap times were possible if the kerbs were 'taken advantage of'.
Fortunately we were all grown up enough to try to keep to the track and this produced some great fast racing and slipstreaming.
Shame there aren't more drivers though, I know these aren't everyone's cup of tea but when you get them going well it's a fantastic race experience.

 

[stigs2cousin]

Seems like you guys dodged a bullet ,äh, a manhole cover at your race in Vegas

 

[Shed 17]

Seems like you guys dodged a bullet ,äh, a manhole cover at your race in Vegas

Yeah, expensive repair bills for Ferrari and Alpine. Had to smile when Toto told them to get over it....................not sure he would had the same opinion if it was Lewis with a hole in the chassis/engine/battery??
The only thing we had to look out for on that long straight in our race was who was on at Caesar's Palace. Adele apparently with Circ du Soleil at the Mirage. (perhaps I needed Steve's lack of rear wing...then I wouldn't have had time to look at the scenery!)

 

[gearwhine]

Steve, at the time I wasn't sure what had happened in race 1, you were really quick down the straight with your super slippery set up but I got a tow off of Hank and got alongside in the braking zone. I thought I had left you enough room as we both went for the corner but with me on the racing line (and more grip?)I had a quicker entry.
Looking at the replay it looks like one of those regular 'racing' incidents we see in F1 (Checo and Charles at Mexico).
Apologies if I did take your corner, wasn't intentional and we were having some great battles before that. The recovery from that incident was comical as we both turned on full lock to go head on again

I was running more aero so had a fairly stable race car but did try low aero in practice and if you could hang onto it it was ballistic.

I really like this track but if we were to use it again l'd like to see an update to include some track limit penalties as super quick lap times were possible if the kerbs were 'taken advantage of'.
Fortunately we were all grown up enough to try to keep to the track and this produced some great fast racing and slipstreaming.
Shame there aren't more drivers though, I know these aren't everyone's cup of tea but when you get them going well it's a fantastic race experience.

What a pair of toss pots ....... 173 mph terminal but now and again it was terminal

 

[gearwhine]

Yeah, expensive repair bills for Ferrari and Alpine. Had to smile when Toto told them to get over it....................not sure he would had the same opinion if it was Lewis with a hole in the chassis/engine/battery??
The only thing we had to look out for on that long straight in our race was who was on at Caesar's Palace. Adele apparently with Circ du Soleil at the Mirage. (perhaps I needed Steve's lack of rear wing...then I wouldn't have had time to look at the scenery!)

Yeah, only cos i had to grip the wheel so hard to keep it on the road. Had no time to see a damn thing, never mind a show

 

[KFMaster]

Was a fun track actually. First of all sorry to Dai for the punt at the braking zone for turn 5. Think I was not braking too late but maybe left gap too narrow and I couldnt avoid hitting the back. Dont have replay as I disconnected. Sorry for that.
As well I violated track limits couple times especially at the turn before the long straight. Actually didn't gain much time as I saw split but didn't do it intentionally and it was not okay. Always struggled to get the car turned there.
Lap 1 turn 1 incident race 2 I dont know what happened as I have no replay but anyway I had the disconnect later so I would be last anyway.

cu all and thx for racing

No worries Thomas. For one thing you were not the first one to punt me, Hank beat you to it

Although I have to say in both cases, it may have something to do with my setup: I was running 2 front and 0 rear wings. This severely compromised my braking at end of long straights such that I was breaking much earlier than you all. Before race, I contemplated saying something about that to warn everyone, but held off, probably a mistake.

In the first incident, with Paul and Steve fighting in front of me, I took extra caution and lifted before my normal braking point. I think this made me slowing down even more than normal that didn't give Hank any chance to slow down, so I got punted right off the track, fortunately, didn't turn me around so I could keep going.

Into turn 4, knowing you would have much better braking, I hanged all the way to the left thinking you will just dive down to pass. Looks like you hesitated and tried to follow me through not know I couldn't go through that turn nearly as fast as you could. Rest is history.

You all probably think I was crazy running such a low down force setup. But for me it worked great. I have to thank Jason for it, the same that he shared with me for Baku. Even though it is very loose, it is very predictable. I can actually drive it more easily than the default setup. And I got the best relative performance to you guys out of it before the race by far of any races to that point. I was actually super hopeful for a competitive race. Unfortunately, on race day I could not drive to anything like when I was practicing. That was quite a disappointment. Nevertheless, it was still a great track and fun to race with you all.

 

[gearwhine]

Your car was even less glued to the road than me Dai. Overall, as i found out it is not quicker. We brake early, more caution going in and easy going out just to be a bit quicker up the straights and never mind the fact we are punished for the slightest mistake. That would explain how you were able to stay with me up the long straight and how you were never going to slow enough for the turn left as you passed me

 

[KFMaster]

Your car was even less glued to the road than me Dai. Overall, as i found out it is not quicker. We brake early, more caution going in and easy going out just to be a bit quicker up the straights and never mind the fact we are punished for the slightest mistake. That would explain how you were able to stay with me up the long straight and how you were never going to slow enough for the turn left as you passed me

I understand what you are saying Steve. The only thing was, I tried both this low down force setup and various higher down force setups based on the ones I got Rasmus and you , none of them even come close in lap time. More than that, I practiced racing against the AIs and again, low down force setup was by far the best. With AI drivers, I could follow them pretty closely with out losing much time in the twists and then just blow by them on the straight. I probably shouldn't have use that to judge anything, since the AI drivers are much slower.

What I couldn't figure out was, why in the race I just didn't drive as well as in the practice

 

[gearwhine]

I understand what you are saying Steve. The only thing was, I tried both this low down force setup and various higher down force setups based on the ones I got Rasmus and you , none of them even come close in lap time. More than that, I practiced racing against the AIs and again, low down force setup was by far the best. With AI drivers, I could follow them pretty closely with out losing much time in the twists and then just blow by them on the straight. I probably shouldn't have use that to judge anything, since the AI drivers are much slower.

What I couldn't figure out was, why in the race I just didn't drive as well as in the practice

Welcome to my world Dai, i think its called added pressure

 

[stigs2cousin]

One could say that´s the reason why the Pr0´s use different set ups for Qualy, Sprint and Endurance races.

For the short duration of a Quali session on our own it´s way easier to stay on top of a "peakier" i.e. difficult to drive set up.

Under the pressure of the race a drive able set up in most cases will net better results.

 

[Shed 17]

I understand what you are saying Steve. The only thing was, I tried both this low down force setup and various higher down force setups based on the ones I got Rasmus and you , none of them even come close in lap time. More than that, I practiced racing against the AIs and again, low down force setup was by far the best. With AI drivers, I could follow them pretty closely with out losing much time in the twists and then just blow by them on the straight. I probably shouldn't have use that to judge anything, since the AI drivers are much slower.

What I couldn't figure out was, why in the race I just didn't drive as well as in the practice

Dai, there have been many words written on this subject and as recently as last week Ernie posted in the Le Mans thread some wise words about the URD 992 and how quick it was in practice/Qualy but almost impossible to race for an hour.

As Casrten said above, it's a completely different set of variables in the race. You have other cars around you at the start (and hopefully during the race), therefore your braking and lines are more dependent on what others are doing in front, behind and beside you at any given time. I'm not sure if AC physics allow for reduced downforce when following another car but it certainly feels like it to me. Also, (and this might just be me), it often feels like different servers give a different feel. For example, you practice like a demon, get good times and set ups only for the race server to come up and the car feels completely different.

Add to this the possible heavier fuel load /tyre choice and the distractions of keeping an eye on your mirrors/Realtime gaps/ radio chat and you are sure to be slower in the race.

When I started down this slippery slope of Sim Racing five years ago I got frustrated by getting good lap times in practice only to fail to get anywhere near them in race trim. And shock horror.......the news is it still happens after all this time!

Of course there are the Aliens who can replicate the times without even thinking about it but for me the important thing is to have a good race car, stable, reliable yet fast enough to keep in touch with my peers if possible.

So now longer do I get frustrated about my ability to get close to the fast guys in practice, but my measure of a successful race is if I can stay on the track, make minimal mistakes (of my own doing) and have fun racing someone. I do most of my practice in race trim now.

Last Wednesday I was running well in the Abarth at the Deutschlandring, consistent lap times (not the fastest by a long way) and heading for a steady fourth place overall. But halfway through the very last lap I momentary lost concentration and stuffed it in a ditch and couldn't extract it without teleporting to the pits. So all that effort for nothing...............
Lesson learnt!! (I was furious with myself for hours afterwards ).

As Steve said, being super quick is no good if you throw it at the scenery and lose all that time gained, it doesn't have to be 'tortoise and hare' but having a stable set up that you can race to the maximum of your ability will go a long way to a successful race day.

End of Sermon!!

 

[gearwhine]

Dai, there have been many words written on this subject and as recently as last week Ernie posted in the Le Mans thread some wise words about the URD 992 and how quick it was in practice/Qualy but almost impossible to race for an hour.

As Casrten said above, it's a completely different set of variables in the race. You have other cars around you at the start (and hopefully during the race), therefore your braking and lines are more dependent on what others are doing in front, behind and beside you at any given time. I'm not sure if AC physics allow for reduced downforce when following another car but it certainly feels like it to me. Also, (and this might just be me), it often feels like different servers give a different feel. For example, you practice like a demon, get good times and set ups only for the race server to come up and the car feels completely different.

Add to this the possible heavier fuel load /tyre choice and the distractions of keeping an eye on your mirrors/Realtime gaps/ radio chat and you are sure to be slower in the race.

When I started down this slippery slope of Sim Racing five years ago I got frustrated by getting good lap times in practice only to fail to get anywhere near them in race trim. And shock horror.......the news is it still happens after all this time!

Of course there are the Aliens who can replicate the times without even thinking about it but for me the important thing is to have a good race car, stable, reliable yet fast enough to keep in touch with my peers if possible.

So now longer do I get frustrated about my ability to get close to the fast guys in practice, but my measure of a successful race is if I can stay on the track, make minimal mistakes (of my own doing) and have fun racing someone. I do most of my practice in race trim now.

Last Wednesday I was running well in the Abarth at the Deutschlandring, consistent lap times (not the fastest by a long way) and heading for a steady fourth place overall. But halfway through the very last lap I momentary lost concentration and stuffed it in a ditch and couldn't extract it without teleporting to the pits. So all that effort for nothing...............
Lesson learnt!! (I was furious with myself for hours afterwards ).

As Steve said, being super quick is no good if you throw it at the scenery and lose all that time gained, it doesn't have to be 'tortoise and hare' but having a stable set up that you can race to the maximum of your ability will go a long way to a successful race day.

End of Sermon!!

I could of written everything you said myself Paul. I agree 100%.
I also agree about sometimes the car feels different on the server. I think it might be road temps and grip levels.
At times (rare) i find there is more grip than i have practiced on but usually the car is not as stable and my lap times then suffer. Same for everyone though i think.

 

[Shed 17]

After the real thing this weekend, Tyrone has updated the track with lots of improvements.

www.racedepartment.com/downloads/f1-las-vegas-2023-grand-prix-layout.49878/updates#resource-update-114175

Track limits and walls right on track edge so no room for mistakes.

Drives slower but more realistic.

 

[KFMaster]

Thanks everyone for sharing your great insights. It all makes sense yet how do I reconcile with my own observations?

1. Jason's low down force setup was not only faster in practice than Rasmus' high down force setup but also easier to drive in practice -- I actually makes less error with the low down force setup.
2. At early part of the race, I was extra cautious with other people around, later, I was running along but still not getting good lap time.

So I thought hard and reflected on some of the earlier races, came to the following:

1. Jason's low down force setup is every bit as neutral and predicable as Rasmus' high down force setup. The only thing it loses is grip. This turns out to be a bonus for me because in complex corners I don't have to go as fast through them to find the limits. Allot of times, I didn't think it is possible nor how to get through a corner at higher speed that on the offer from a high down force setup. A very good example was the Degner curve at Suzuka. I thought I was going through it at absolute highest speed possible until Carsten told me otherwise and what I needed to do. That change was worth .25S. Another was the Kink at Road America (GTM race). For this reason, at LasVegas, going to high down force does not gain me in sector 2 anywhere close to what I lose in sector 3, and if I tried to push in those twisty sections of sector 2, I run off track even thigh more down force.
   At my current stage of driver development, I think this past session had really helped me getting to a good initial grasp with throttle application of out of corners. Far away from optimal, but at least I can consistently drive out of corners with out looping myself. This makes it the easiest to gain time using lowdown force setup on tracks with long straights interlaced with short time in corners. Another really good example was Monza where I was also had relatively competitive practice times (although sadly I could not race on that race day).
   So moral of the story here is that I need to develop more as driver to fully exploit setup capabilities on better negotiating the more complex corners.
2. In the early stages of the race, the low down force setup even though no less stable to drive, but gave me less options and put me in a more vulnerable position. If I hadn't need to longer brake distance, I may not have put myself in situation of being rear ended. I think this part matches what you guys are saying. Then once I got punted, I got kinda unsettled and just wasn't driving "normally". I took some more look in the replay and data log, the driving was definitely disturbed (I can't find a better word). The moral of the story here is that I need to work on my racing psychology

Again, thanks to all your advices!
And as always, thanks to Han and Markus for organizing our races!