The SimFeedback-AC DIY Motion Simulator thread

sjb266 · Sep 17, 2018

Hey guys. Thought I’d create a thread for those taking the plunge into this brilliant DIY project..
I will be starting mine soon and I know there are others thinking about it.. so feel free to share your knowledge and experiences so we can all enjoy this platform to its full potential. A huge thanks to the developers who have really knocked this one out of the park!

Website: https://opensfx.com/2019/02/20/welcome-to-our-new-site/

Github: https://github.com/SimFeedback/SimFeedback-AC-Servo/wiki

For all the internals for the actuator contact Amy - skye@ntl-bearing.com
She can supply everything you need. Just remind her you want the ends of the shafts chamfered and make sure she sends the right sized ball screw - we have had a couple of issues reported. She is very helpful though and the cost is pretty good.

Huge thanks to @RowanH for writing a comprehensive user guide which can be accessed here - https://www.rowanhick.com/sfx-100-build-and-running-guide

In addition, @anton_Chez has contributed a list of post numbers for some of the important settings etc..
Post #320 SFX-100 thread
Post #327 SFX-100 thread for Discord correlation
Post #339 SFX-100 thread
Post #418 SFX-100 thread
Post #424 SFX-100 thread
Post #439 SFX-100 thread
Post #449 SFX-100 thread
Post #517 SFX-100 thread
Post #554 SFX-100 thread
Post #580 SFX-100 thread
Post #826 SFX-100 thread
Post #837 SFX-100 thread
Post #864,866,867,868,870,887,889,897 SFX-100 thread
Post #911,914 SFX-100 thread
Post #988,992,998 SFX-100 thread
Post #1147 SFX-100 thread
Post #1492 SFX-100 thread
Post #1511,1517 SFX-100 thread

I will try to keep this page updated with links to source the parts in other parts of the world. Just post whatever links you have and i'll add them here.

Please note: Not all the parts listed below are essential for the project. For the essential parts refer to the original shopping list.

Australia:

Thanks to @AussieSim for the following links:

10A power lead(s) * 4
https://www.jaycar.com.au/2m-black-mains-extension-lead/p/PS4152

Top quality wire stripper
https://sydneytools.com.au/product/boxo-cutws205-multifunction-wire-stripper

RCD/safety switch power block
https://www.bunnings.com.au/arlec-4-outlet-heavy-duty-portable-safety-switch_p4420028

WD-40 lithium grease for the ball screws
https://www.bunnings.com.au/wd-40-specialist-300g-high-performance-white-lithium-grease_p6100408

Vibration pads
https://www.bunnings.com.au/whites-on-site-100-x-12-5mm-rubber-anti-vibration-mat-4-pack_p3961547

WD-40 Dry PTFE spray for the slider (free shipping)
https://au.rs-online.com/mobile/p/lubricants/7577134/

Arduino Leonardo (free shipping + frequent 10-15% off discount)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/a000057/arduino-corporation

DB25 cables * 4 (free shipping)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/ak401-2/assmann-wsw-components-inc

PETG * 3 (free shipping)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/petg17bk1/mg-chemicals

WAGO-like connectors to avoid a breadboard (perhaps use genuine ones if you are doing 240V AC)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32906719488.html

D-Sub breakout boards * 4
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32297675967.html

3D printer Creality Ender-3 Pro
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32918302452.html

Wires from Arduino to D-Sub breakout (remove black plastic from the WAGO end)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32887680826.html

Crimp connectors for AC wire leads
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32813550981.html

Mr Latte · Oct 12, 2018

NIce to see more of this in action, more videos welcomed.

With the potential amount of force/energy this can output with the motion in action. I really have concerns in what vibration noises below would be transferred in a wooden beam type house. Some mentioned ideas of placing in an upstairs room or even in an attic. It would be good to get feedback from someone that already has such.

Vibration Noise / Wooden Joists - Wooden Floor
I query this as I know already how big an issue the vibration noise my tactile can make in the rooms below. It is one major issue I need to improve with a new rig build as I am putting out a lot of tactile energy with various low frequencies.

Its obvious focus in this thread is wanting to be kept to this platform, thats fine too.
However, I think some of you are crazy/bonkers to presume, high end tactile cannot compliment this motion or a motion seat like GS4 to further enhance each devices own immersion abilities. I am excited as I know what I am getting already from the tactile regards feedback of what the car is doing and think this with motion would be awesome.

I have effects and continued experimentation that bring super strong sensation to braking. I will showcase this in a future thread of my own as a new build is in process. I feel such would only help to greatly enhance the cockpits dipping with motion. As for acceleration, again the sensation of vibration energy it would work superbly in tandem with the dipping at the rear as I can easily feel acceleration operating, coming out of corners and going beyond 100mph. Note this is not engine (RPM) it is the Longitudinal forces with both acc/dec which also apply to anything that causes deceleration (not just braking) if we want it to work with high sensitivity. Oversteer/Understeer from wheelslip can also activate the deceleration effects so it is important to have effects that work well with each other.

With some test effects like Lateral G, I have discovered if placing my head on the seats headrest, that the level of deep bass energy from the tactile can effectively vibrate my skull, whilst my whole body from toes to sholders can detect the L/R forces working in conjunction with the steering and even without motion its fully immersive so with motion I can only expect to be even better.

Michal Burisin · Oct 12, 2018

HoiHman said:
Today i connected my 5 buttkickers that are on my GS-4. Initial conclusion : With high and fast profile settings you only need them for RPM , nothing else.

Maybe you could try SSW if you own it for lateral acceleration, wheels slip and surge. It might be good complement to SFX, or not, just idea how you could try to utilize tactile

.

I like especially lateral acceleration + wheel slip. I feel it not like g-force on body, but more like lateral forces on tires. The latteral acceleration effect grows and at certain point (you get used to it) the grip is lost and wheel slip effect kicks in - buttkickers are trying to shake the hell out of pedals when you really lose grip, these fast vibrations are like tires are trying to catch grip again. These are nice clues, especially if you have good L / R separation.

Once you overcook it, you feel immediately, that you should back off throttle.

I'm not sure if it's realistic or not, but I think it might feel at least little bit similar, but it feels good

HoiHman · Oct 12, 2018

Michal Burisin said:
Maybe you could try SSW if you own it for lateral acceleration, wheels slip and surge. It might be good complement to SFX, or not, just idea how you could try to utilize tactile .

I like especially lateral acceleration + wheel slip. I feel it not like g-force on body, but more like lateral forces on tires. The latteral acceleration effect grows and at certain point (you get used to it) the grip is lost and wheel slip effect kicks in - buttkickers are trying to shake the hell out of pedals when you really lose grip, these fast vibrations are like tires are trying to catch grip again. These are nice clues, especially if you have good L / R separation.

Once you overcook it, you feel immediately, that you should back off throttle.

I'm not sure if it's realistic or not, but I think it might feel at least little bit similar, but it feels good

MIchal, once you have tried the SFX100, you will know why

I completely understand that you feel that way on a static rig and that you love these effects. But "once you go motion" there's no going back

Don't get me wrong, i love tactile. I was a beta tester of simvibe. But.... there's absolutely no way you can convince me that with vibrations (tactile) you can simulatie surge.

Mr Latte · Oct 12, 2018

HoiHman said:
Today i connected my 5 buttkickers that are on my GS-4. Initial conclusion : With high and fast profile settings you only need them for RPM , nothing else.

If i turn them up too high they just start to interfer with the motion clues from the SFX100. 5 buttkickers on 1 seat can do that easily.

Perhaps at lower settings, it might complement. Will test it later.

Too much focus/reliance on Simvibe is part of your problem...

Engine aside, is it any surprise as Simvibe is mostly suspension and general bump related for its effects and NOT offering g-force based enhanced sensations.

What I would be interested in hearing is how the motions bump effects may drown out those of Simvibe or if you have any timing issues with Simvibe/Tactile operating faster or slower than the motions tactile sensations.

It is important you verify this timing aspect if one is happening ahead of the other or if others have covered much on it with their own tests/usage.

Ringorian · Oct 12, 2018

Mr Latte, its Just so much going on wi the sfx 100 that there is Not much room for other Vibrations .. you have Zero backlash and a Lot of steps for 10 cm way.
If You Go the smoooth way with Them because you live in 3rd Floor or Something .. then Maybe

If a guy next Door build them, Just try em. Full Speed

Michal Burisin · Oct 12, 2018

HoiHman said:
MIchal, once you have tried the SFX100, you will know why

I completely understand that you feel that way on a static rig and that you love these effects. But "once you go motion" there's no going back

Don't get me wrong, i love tactile. I was a beta tester of simvibe. But.... there's absolutely no way you can convince me that with vibrations (tactile) you can simulatie surge.

Maybe surge can work well with tactile, I don't know, I tried little bit, but I'm lacking power - just 3x big BK concert + TST239 on seat

- too much other effects going on so the units doesn't have any more space for strong surge effect. But I can imagine it could give good sensations if you have more power like @Mr Latte. I was talking more about lateral forces and wheelslip which you could try.

I noticed in video, that you get roll when you hit kerb, but I didn't seen there the smaller vibrations on its rough surface, but maybe the vibration is there, just too small to notice it by eye in video or it's settings. Do you get rough surface on kerbs with SFX?

Anyway you got me inspired so I started building again - as for surge I have DYI g-seat in the works and it starts looking good, it will fit me like a glove

, hopefully I will have time tomorrow to start thread. Can't wait to finish to start with SFX, but it will be probably next year, but from what I see from you guys I'm totally on board.

Thanks for the info in this thread and authors of SFX!

Mr Latte · Oct 12, 2018

Ringorian said:
Mr Latte, its Just so much going on wi the sfx 100 that there is Not much room for other Vibrations .. you have Zero backlash and a Lot of steps for 10 cm way.
If You Go the smoooth way with Them because you live in 3rd Floor or Something .. then Maybe

I would disagree based on my own personal experiences of tactile and it installed NOT on 4 corners but directly to seat/pedal platforms. Of course many factors are involved. The software being used, the effects created, the tactile installed and so on.

There is a lot of experience in both (motion/tactile) fields by people in this thread or on these forums but the "atmosphere" in this thread seems tainted regards reactions, presumptions or opinions of tactile and motion to it being treated as a VS battle.

Henk mentions their is no going back, may I say its not about going back, but going forward and implementing new methods, new approaches and combining to "properly" use tactile in tandem with motion.

However in respect to your opinion, I would have to question how or why you have the opinion you do and what testing hardware and methods were done to form the opinion you have?

Please with respect, do not assume what is possible or underestimate what some of us have been doing with tactile or what level we already have X,Z axis based effects operating.

Somone, if they want, can create a new thread about it, I am not interested in arguing but sharing or learning how we can potentially take things forward...

Ringorian · Oct 12, 2018

Michal, you dont See the Small ones.
Mr. Latte , i have nothing to Proof ,its nothing commercial or Something to Push . .. Just experience with ivibe, simvibe, Gamevibe , tactilefeedback. And my conclusion is, you wont need more than one (maybe) under your butt

but everyone should make his own experiences. I have some combined with sfx100

have fun
Henk has also some .. so, i dont know you, do you have any commercial Thing running Vibration Side ?
Btw nö offense or Something

If You own some Buttkickers/ woofers or whatever .. try em .

sebna · Oct 12, 2018

Is your setup jumping / moving like Henk's is?

Ringorian · Oct 12, 2018

sebna said:
Is your setup jumping / moving like Henk's is?

Depends on the Motion setting, if you Cut the large effects it should move Small ways .. for example .. you can Go for heave max min 3 and use 50 percent way which means 2.5 cm Up and down (total 5cm on maybe 3000 rpm by 5mm a round) If You Drive and do Some Streetrace on Nordschleife you use maybe 1.4 of the 3 .. but If You Crash the max 3 will make your rig Go JUMP around ..

Mr Latte · Oct 12, 2018

Ringorian said:
Michal, you dont See the Small ones.
Mr. Latte , i have nothing to Proof ,its nothing commercial or Something to Push . .. Just experience with ivibe, simvibe, Gamevibe , tactilefeedback. And my conclusion is, you wont need more than one under your butt but everyone should make his own experiences. I have some combined with sfx100 have fun

I don't question your conclusion but why you have the views you do has not been properly expressed by yourself in what/how you did indeed try. Nor giving information on what tactile equipment you used during the testing.

However, you need to be more open and fair, as it seems you are basically telling others they are wrong and what is or isn't possible before taking into account what they have done or tried with tactile.

I would suggest this is not done here, if someone wants to consider starting a thread with the focus of this motion rig and combining it with tactile, then so be it and you could expand more in there.

I do not think your conclusion in what was done or tried may be fully conclusive....

Michal Burisin · Oct 12, 2018

Ringorian said:
Depends on the Motion setting, if you Cut the large effects it should move Small ways .. for example .. you can Go for heave max min 3 and use 50 percent way which means 2.5 cm Up and down (total 5cm on maybe 3000 rpm by 5mm a round) If You Drive and do Some Streetrace on Nordschleife you use maybe 1.4 of the 3 .. but If You Crash the max 3 will make your rig Go JUMP around ..

Have you tried bolting the rig down so it wouldn't jump?

I think some proper isolation would be necessary in order prevent the person driving being shaken to death

I recently found these isolators based on air:

https://www.hennlich.cz/produkty/li...y-tlumeni-pohybu-vzduchove-mechy-676/wbe.html

but there are many other proffessional options.

RaceNut · Oct 13, 2018

Michal Burisin said:
Have you tried bolting the rig down so it wouldn't jump?

I think some proper isolation would be necessary in order prevent the person driving being shaken to death

I recently found these isolators based on air:

https://www.hennlich.cz/produkty/li...y-tlumeni-pohybu-vzduchove-mechy-676/wbe.html

but there are many other proffessional options.

Those isolators look like mini versions of air-bags (as used in heavy truck suspensions).

sebna · Oct 13, 2018

Mr Latte said:
I don't question your conclusion but why you have the views you do has not been properly expressed by yourself in what/how you did indeed try. Nor giving information on what tactile equipment you used during the testing.

However, you need to be more open and fair, as it seems you are basically telling others they are wrong and what is or isn't possible before taking into account what they have done or tried with tactile.

I would suggest this is not done here, if someone wants to consider starting a thread with the focus of this motion rig and combining it with tactile, then so be it and you could expand more in there.

I do not think your conclusion in what was done or tried may be fully conclusive....

Are you in business of selling / developing tactile? Why are you so hang up on tactile in actuators, full rig motion thread?

You post post after post of wall of text of sorry to say that but kind of unrelated information.

IMHO it is better if you keep it in dedicated thread.

sjb266 · Oct 13, 2018

sebna said:
Are you in business of selling / developing tactile? Why are you so hang up on tactile in actuators, full rig motion thread?

You post post after post of wall of text of sorry to say that but kind of unrelated information.

IMHO it is better if you keep it in dedicated thread.

Coz he's the self-proclaimed professor of tactile feedback and knows all there is to know on the subject... across all known and unknown platforms and mediums.. Just ask him!

metalnwood · Oct 13, 2018

Mr Latte said:
I don't question your conclusion but why you have the views you do has not been properly expressed by yourself in what/how you did indeed try. Nor giving information on what tactile equipment you used during the testing.

However, you need to be more open and fair, as it seems you are basically telling others they are wrong and what is or isn't possible before taking into account what they have done or tried with tactile.

I would suggest this is not done here, if someone wants to consider starting a thread with the focus of this motion rig and combining it with tactile, then so be it and you could expand more in there.

I do not think your conclusion in what was done or tried may be fully conclusive....

This is a difficult one because it is subjective based on what we have tried ourselves with equipment available to us. Some may not have the best tactile setup in the world and can say they don't feel like they need their simvibe anymore with their BK LE's.

You may say they dont need it because their tactile is rubbish anyway

Neither gets to try the best of the best in every combination but it all gives the rest of us a reasonable idea of things.

Tactile does not mean you need a tactile transducer. These motors and ballscrews are certainly capable of doing all of these effects with more power than a basic BK LE. I don't know if they are doing a good job or not but you can't just say they they are providing motion only so tactile is required.

They are capable of doing both, you wont see the tactile just like you wont see it with a transducer.

Mascot · Oct 13, 2018

I must admit I started losing interest in this thread when it turned into yet another discussion about transducers, simvibe and buttkickers. Aren't there more than enough separate threads for those? This thread has lost its focus and got a little foggy now, IMO.

HugoB · Oct 13, 2018

Yes, please let’s keep this thread about the SFX100! And hopefully soon more first hand user experiences. Henk is providing very useful info, I’m always happy to see a notification when he’s got some news

I’m definitely making this DIY project, I already bought the 3D printer and have been practicing printing the last week. But I can’t order the parts yet because we are going on a long holiday soon and I wouldn’t want something to be sent back! God, it’s so hard not to click the buy button on those servos...

sjb266 · Oct 13, 2018

hugo bokhorst said:
Yes, please let’s keep this thread about the SFX100! And hopefully soon more first hand user experiences. Henk is providing very useful info, I’m always happy to see a notification when he’s got some news

I’m definitely making this DIY project, I already bought the 3D printer and have been practicing printing the last week. But I can’t order the parts yet because we are going on a long holiday soon and I wouldn’t want something to be sent back! God, it’s so hard not to click the buy button on those servos...

I'm trying.. I'm at the mercy of the shipping companies!

anton_Chez · Oct 13, 2018

Rodney is a tactile enthusiast so it's only natural for him to wonder what his passion and knowledge on the subject and hardware can bring to this new project. Just as we've discussed it on other threads ranging from static rigs of varying components (80 20, off the shelf, DIY, etc) to the various motion platforms people are running on their chassis.

I do think, however, that we do indeed need to keep this thread on topic, as there is much to be discussed and shared, especially when some of the other guys join Henk in their builds. We are very much looking forward to more user experience and input.

Before long if people feel the need to add a dedicated tactile setup to their build in regard to the SFX100, we will certainly have a few dedicated threads on the subject. Just as we will for settings, profiles, etc.