Would You Rather...

Good point. In fact many experienced RL racers has criticized the grinding aspect of simracing. Basically doing several hundred hours of practice before the race is indeed exhausting. And not doing it and then loosing by a bit to those who grinded practicing for weeks is demotivating. It perhaps could be biggest problem of highly competitive simracing. While in reality everyone gets roughly same practice time before RL event in RL racetrack, well... ideally.
What gets me the most about simracing is when there is a little "quirk" or "trick" that folks can exploit. I think that this is one reason why Verstappen won't do any sim races with the F1 games. This is also one of the reasons why I stopped playing Forza. Never mind the physics, etc. What bothered me was when someone knew that you didn't really have to obey the track limits at a certain corner and I didn't have that knowledge.
 
Right. Which is why it's one track where they could get away with taking away the aero and just relying on mechanical grip. But as long as you're taking away the aero, may as well make the cars a bit shorter and narrower too so they can get by each other.

haha... again - aerodynamics.

Ground effects are awesome though, as they don't add much drag while giving much downforce. Still they could regulate lengths of their cars. They look silly, bad proportions. Harder to overtake, harder to rotate at tight places. Last but not least, I bet the longer the car, the harder and more expensive it is to design and to realize its construction due to longer span between axles to bridge. Wait, isn't Mercedes always the longest F1 car ?
 
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Good point. In fact many experienced RL racers has criticized the grinding aspect of simracing. Basically doing several hundred hours of practice before the race is indeed exhausting.
I agree with them. That's why I like the idea of having enough of a community (or great AI) to just race with other backmarkers and enjoy the fight more than the win.

I'm a big fan of vintage racecars but I know that I'm more efficient when I drive with autoclutch and paddle shifters so racing pro would mean doing that. No thanks, I'm having so much more fun with a stick and trying to heel-n-toe (and screwing it every now and then). :barefoot:
 
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It is so obvious...
It is ashamed to see the youtubers and the like, showing off their plastic toys and simulated drawings ... pure ego. trying to simulate the insimulable ... reality itself.
Most would sell their simracing electronic toys for being 1 year at the controls of something real and in competition.

(I must say that I put pure fun first, before simulation)
 
Sorry, but I need the money, and I'd rather embarrass myself in the relative anonymity of esports than in front of live fans.
The non anonymity of certain aspects of simracing is bothering me more than in IRL sports honestly, but it's a different topic.

NB: you would be surprised by the level of competition of some IRL categories... ;)
 
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We all enjoy sim racing, but come on, we sim race because we cant race for real.

I joined to train for the real thing but I am now finding out that it is a sport in itself - and one of greater fairness and representation since any of us can win without suffering through the problems of "real motorsport". It became real when real drivers found it a challenge to beat some of us in equal electronic machinery.

It says above I get a salary for 1 year as opposed to racing for real where only my expenses are paid. So I'll take the money, compete against a field of the best in equal machinery and be a professional sportsman instead of a "ham and egger".

So it is no longer a second hand choice for me.
 
I joined to train for the real thing but I am now finding out that it is a sport in itself - and one of greater fairness and representation since any of us can win without suffering through the problems of "real motorsport". It became real when real drivers found it a challenge to beat some of us in equal electronic machinery.

It says above I get a salary for 1 year as opposed to racing for real where only my expenses are paid. So I'll take the money, compete against a field of the best in equal machinery and be a professional sportsman instead of a "ham and egger".

So it is no longer a second hand choice for me.


Fair enough, each to their own. But there are many reasons why that opinion is shared by only 11 percent of voters. And to suggest simracing is a level playing field is a bit naive. There are thousands upon thousands of differences between each persons set up. Not to mention set up/physics flaws that most wont know about. Would you rather watch porn than have sex too? ;-)
 
We all enjoy sim racing, but come on, we sim race because we cant race for real.
I'm pretty sure that even if I were offered a race seat, I wouldn't take it. I'm too old, too cowardly, and my inner ears wouldn't take it.

I don't think that the porn/real sex metaphor is perfect here. It's funny, but I don't think it's quite apt.

Perhaps different people enjoy sim racing for different reasons?
 
well. damn. like there is any damn choice in those two? Add one more "Oppertunity race in real life for a year for $100 000" and I'll tick that as well. Our fancy games with all the expensive gear, are still just games, and we are just big kids.
 
long term probably esport, cause I have to have some income :) but short term I would go with real life
real life experience is way way different then the best of sim experiences - mind you I was never on a proper rig !

but I find it hard to be more fun /rewarding then even when racing is a low tier races in real life. The experience is just something else


that's not to say that esport doesnt' have it's place. If I had to pay for my car + full season, or make money while being e-racer, the choice is obvious

but yeah, if I didn't have to pay for my car + expenses, then for a shorter term ( 1-2 years) it would be my choice to do it in real life
 
This is a tough question, honestly. In a vacuum this isn't even a question, the real thing, hands down!

In the real world though, at this point in time, when a lot of people are hurting financially, and we're still trying to get back to normal, I could see taking a one year paid Sim Racing contract. Being able to do something you love, even though it wouldn't be in a real car, and getting paid for it, isn't a bad deal.
 
Fair enough, each to their own. But there are many reasons why that opinion is shared by only 11 percent of voters. And to suggest simracing is a level playing field is a bit naive. There are thousands upon thousands of differences between each persons set up. Not to mention set up/physics flaws that most wont know about. Would you rather watch porn than have sex too? ;-)
That answer summarises your general level of thought quite well I think - women aren't an entertainment for me so I'd have to say your comparison has hit the wrong forum, or at the very least the wrong user - you might try some others where that sort of thing is more apt though Michael.

As for being naive - well let's look at it this way : I have a right to what I think - what do you say eh ? You think what you like and I shall do the same - that ok with you ? Let's just suppose for one moment that I am writing an answer to someone who has an open mind: Well in that case much of the car is simulated and the same for everyone as opposed to a real motorsport scenario where money and politics plays a huge role - what differs from setup to setup are generally the input and feedback methods. These are physical, audio and graphical. To obtain even the best of these is a fraction of the cost to go to a kart track for a year, let alone to have the best equipment once you get there. Thus many can afford it should they want to. Allied to that is the fact that you can drive well with a G25 and above. These two things together with the number of participants increase the probability of a level playing field - more so than in the real counterpart of the sport.

Ah setup and physics flaws ... yeah as if you are Mika Hakkinnen right ? The relevance of precision in a simulator goes up only at the top laptimes. For example applying the accelerator at the limit of grip a few meters earlier in certain corners will generate massive reductions in laptime over a following straight only under certain conditions. The driver has to be very good and has to understand what those conditions are, for example arriving mid-corner with the correct balance and slip angle for her tyre choice. The same car arriving there with the same speed, but with a center of mass that is too high may not exit well for example. In the real world you pay big money to know this stuff. Here we might use ACTI and books or other materials. All this means that the driver only has to work to get better in the sim-world. They usually do. The top drivers at RD are all very well versed in the basics and they spend lots of time improving themselves. But they do have that possibility of doing an infinite number of laps to do so as opposed to the real world scenario where even if they did, other factors prevent them using that. Nobody said in the above question what car you would be getting and at which end of the grid. However I am sure you could drive anything into top laptimes - even a wheelbarrow.

Yes there are physics flaws such as grip distribution on the contact patches, dynamic changes in ride height and their effects on aero - but sims are fast getting to the point where for a few hundred euro you can buy a reasonable system where the physics outweighs the competitor's ability to use it fully. Most can't - only the top guys can (world record holders). But we all have a chance to improve to that level in sim-racing.

Ah and as for the 11% - I simply don't give a damn - I am quite happy with the opportunity to vote for something and exercise my right to express myself about it without giving a jot about what you think.

I won't even get started that eSports is now run as an independent sporting activity in most of the top teams in "real motorsport" around the world and that it just might be a sport in its own right.

get out of my space man ....
 
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it depends on racing series in question, lower cups like MX5 cup, with cars that are exactly the same is definitely more of a level playing field that e-sports with all the various hardware , so it's not quite as black & white to make the comparison

to be quick in e-sports, you do to a degree ignore what would not be possible in real life , and that's how you get faster. That's often why real life drivers are slower, because they are used to drive like they would in real life

at the end of the day, it's about what you get out of it
the level of competition, the fun, the excitement , and the money

I really think that for most people, if we only talked short term and let's say 3 races! , almost everyone would go with real life, because the experience will be on entirely different level

that's why people driven in VR, or motion control sim rigs , and actually why we drive more realistic sims in the first place

if the e-sports was in Forza Horizon, I think you would get even fewer people interested , so yeap, it all depends
 

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