Automobilista 2 | Game Changing Updates, Including Spa-Francorchamps 2022

BlaKArg · Aug 29, 2022

McClusky said:
In a race yesterday with no pitstops I traded the lead 4 times, within the last 3 laps, with 2 AI drivers using 110% AI Strength and Aggression set to High.

also

In a 20 lap race with 1 pitstop using the same settings an AI driver and myself got a 5 second lead on the pack and I pitted with 6 laps to go. 2 laps later when I got back to where the pit exit is that AI driver came out just barely in front of me and I was on his tail or on his side until the checkered flag (he won). That was one of the best experiences I ever had in SIM racing.

Not every track and car combo gives me these results but for the most part I have good/great races with the AI drivers.

I wonder if all these people having issues with the AI race them at 90 skill level and low aggression or what.

Wreckoning · Aug 29, 2022

Luciano Santos Filho said:
It depends on what you are looking for. How long are your races?

Short races are ok-ish, specially if you turn off the refueling allowance. The biggest problem, as Romandevison pointed out, is that the AI doesn't know how/when to pit in longer races.

But even in short races, the behavior when fighting for a position is not realistic. They sometimes will go side by side for a lot of corners. You won't see this in iRacing top-splits (apart from some ovals of course), people would crash in each other before that...

It is dependent on what you you are racing and where.

I've just done a 10 lap race around Bathurst in the current Gen Brazilian Stock Cars. 21 AI at 100%, aggression at what is now Medium (I use to have it at 50) and I started 7th, dropped to 10th and crashed myself out from 8th

.

The side by side behaviour only really happens there as cars try moves on the mountain straight before you go up and over the mountain and at the kink in the Conrod straight as you go into the chase. You can partially put this down to the slipstream effect. The current version also now seems to have some better defensive lines from the AI at the end the straights, noticed this at Watkins Glen as well.

The AI not finishing a move is still a problem along with the bunching but it does seem to be getting better overall.

Brazilian Stockcars at Bathurst epic combo by the way

Kingkoenig · Aug 29, 2022

laurent7979 said:
A career mode would be so great, there is so much content available, so many circuits.

A career mode wouldn’t change anything for me, as I play the sim for offline races and time trials.

I tried the update this weekend, maybe not as much as others, but I didn’t feel like it was revolutionary as it was supposedly going to be. To me, the big change was a few updates ago. The biggest improvement is the GT cars, who are much improved over the original release. That said, the more I play, the more I probably will notice the new features.

RaceNut · Aug 29, 2022

As I recall, Reiza stated that the car physics would be at a stable point with the release of v1.4 but, there would still be much unfinished. It stands to reason that other aspects remain WIP, including the AI.

Similarly, there is a sequence of development that needs to occur related to MP and Career modes. WIP.

As one who plays the beta quite often, I'm amazed that Reiza managed to complete as much as they did in the 11th hour, leading up to release. I seriously doubt there is a harder working team in Sim-racing development.

I only have appreciation for what they do. Thank you Reiza, and all the team members / internal Beta testers / players giving feedback.

Luciano Santos Filho · Aug 29, 2022

BlaKArg said:
I wonder if all these people having issues with the AI race them at 90 skill level and low aggression or what.

Using AI at 110-120 strength and maximum aggression.

Kurupt CDN · Aug 29, 2022

AI has improved a bit but still needs a lot of work to be comparable to the quality of iRacing or RRE.

I generally run @ 110-120 strength and 100 aggression.
What bothers me is, I'm a mid packer at best and I am already close to maxing out the ai ability. Faster guys are gonna find the ai pretty lame after time.

Overall speed varies massively between class and track, they don't seem to be nearly affected as much as the human in terms of grip on an out-lap, weather and multi-class are pointless atm.
The AI cant make passes on other AI, at most they run side by side, multi class the faster ai most often gets stuck behind the slower ai.
Ovals are having issues
Their lines around the track vary in quality, they will hold the inside line to somewhat block, then move to the outside before the corner entry, they rarely hit the apex leaving tons of room on the inside line to pass and they seem to lose a lot of speed mid turn and drift wide killing their exit speed.
Then on some tracks, they have insane cornering grip and rocket out of the corner?
The only noticeable improvement I've seen with this build in regards to ai is that they don't do that weird lateral jig to get out of your way on straights when you're on their tail and hold their lines a bit better.

The devs are aware of the issues and hope to improve them in the coming days.

Quote from Renato:
There are known issues with F-Retro handling (both gens), performance issues in some cars with AMDM, wet weather tires & wet AI performance calibration, as well as general AI struggling in ovals & with the faster karts - we are pushing to get these rectified in the coming days.

Overall, I enjoy the physics update on a majority of the cars but I found I had to change my FFB settings to make it gel.
Speaking of FFB settings....... Reiza PLEASE update your ffb recommendation thread and tell us what has changed and a description of each setting, it's been 2.5yrs since you updated it!

Luciano Santos Filho · Aug 29, 2022

MadDriver11 said:
I do only 45-70 minutes races and AI usually behaves quite well and pits as much as I do. The only catch is to avoid races where you can go with a full tank at the very limit of duration or through fuel saving because AI will always decide for the safe strategy and do one more stop.
if I avoid that situation AI stops as much as I do.
I don't use mandatory pit stop as I found that to be quite broken.
I've done all sorts of DPIs-GT3-GT4-GTOpen, occasionally F1s both solo and multi-class and AI is pretty well behaved. Usually run 105 skill and pretty average aggro.
I could definitely go higher... Probably 110 maybe even 115 could do.
Not sure how people see them pitting so many times unless there is rain or something.
Maybe some other classes having more issues?

I do have issues with the DPi class, from those mentioned above, in 2h races with accelerated tyre wear/fuel consumption. A lot... they really pit too early.

Apparently, if you set the race to have only one refuelling pitstop with some margin (let's say, if the car has 101L tank and the race is set to use 170L), the AI will pit once and the race will be fine.

If the race is longer than that, then it doesn't work well.

Spinelli · Aug 29, 2022

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Spinelli · Aug 29, 2022

Metla said:
I certainly don't need or want a career mode, In fact I go well out of my way to avoid them. Though I'm quite happy to step into a structured event or series of events without any voiceovers, characters or supposed drama.

That said, If that's a market worth targeting and it will drive sales and bring wider exposure to the game then I'm all for it....being ignored so they can build us more complete race and car series instead.

Lol, are you implying that career modes must have things such as voiceovers, characters, supposed drama, cut-scenes, etc. If that's what people think I meant by career mode than they're misunderstanding big time. I HATE that stuff. All I meant by career mode is exactly what I wrote. Start in low tiered / slow cars and move your way up to faster cars and bigger tracks. That's it. No drama, characters, cut-scenes crap.

RaceNut said:
FFB can certainly enhance our immersion but, can also provide vital cues that reinforce tire-sounds, grip-loss, self-aligning torque, etc. How vital that is depends on the players reason for playing. People may be motived in sim-racing for different reasons, for competition, friendly fun, immersion, etc. There's no "one right way" to perfect ffb.

So, if it's immersion that some of us seek, then one of the keys to making Simulation more entertaining can certainly be through FFB, at least in my experience.

Ams2 certainly has the potential to do that, perhaps better than other titles given the impressive list of ffb possibilities. I just prefer that approach over the "You get the ffb you get, and don't throw a fit" approach.

Yup, I never stated any thing contrary to what you wrote. I pretty-much agree with all you said.

Leynad777 said:
RaceNut is using a D-Box-system if I'm not mistaken and I'm using a 6 DOF GS-5 with G-Belt and 7 shakers to be clear, but we still need a decent FFB to be connected to the car. Different wheels can be quite different in FFB among the sims and AC for example is much better with a SimuCube or VRS than with an Accuforce, which feels better in BeamNG. The FFB is certainly telling me a lot about the underlying physics and more details usually means more stuff is simulated while in LFS I just feel some rubber-effects, but not enough from the suspension so the physics can't be as good as some people claim.

In rF2 there are tracks with no sufficient track-details and cars just feel floaty and bad even they feel great on other tracks. pCars 2 had similar issues and if the FFB is clipping, you might feel a lack of physics-details even it's just your wheel and settings. But FFB isn't all and if you don't use at least tactile-feedback, better in quadrophonic mode, you can't judge physics properly because your only feedback-source is in stereo while cars have usually four wheels on the tarmac speaking to the driver. So FFB must have it's limitation and can either pronounce more the front-axis or the rear, but not both. AMS2 is more pronounced to the rear which seems not in favour of some people here, while I don't like pure front-biased FFB like in iRacing and ACC.

Yes, different wheels, different FFB settings, tactile feedback, etc. can make you feel more things going on, can help you drive better due to feeling more, etc. But I've never in my life had my opinion of physics changed due to different FFB settings, different wheels, tactile, etc. I've played using the Logitch wheels, multiple Thrustmasters, multiple Fanatecs, Open Sim Wheel, SImucube 1, Accuforce, and Simucube 2 (current wheel. The cars' physics have never magically changed (and they won't) just because I upgraded from, let's say, a Thrustmaster T500RS to a Simucube 2. In some ways the FFB will be different, of course, because it's a different wheel but the car's physics don't magically change. Different wheels, different FFB settings, tactile, etc. can potentially help with laptimes, consistency, immersion, fun, etc. but the physics don't change.

M-Bimmer · Aug 29, 2022

Had so much fun racing online yesterday, four multi class races (20 mins each) along with short practices and 15 minutes qualy with real weather conditions on different tracks and would say 9-10 out of 15 enjoyed those races, raced clean, left space and were super competitive.
Racing was close in the different categories. Experienced FCY in one of the races with two laps to go so things were intense with green again.

Noticed that just at the end of the formation lap, there is no speed limit set to stick to. The leader holds the 120 kph until green light but nothing is displayed to the rest of the pack.

Of course, I don’t expect things to be rosy every time online so hoping for a proper ranking system in place one day to attract something like LFM or others.

My usual racing is in either ACC (LFM & SR GP) and RF2 (nope not that guy who compares and only settle on the best one).

As motorsports fanatic, i love racing and since i already invested in AMS2, it’s reasonable to give it another chance after a bumpy covid period and report back to Reiza on their forums what’s good and not good. This could potentially and hopefully help to make AMS2 better.

(will leave the settings in here in case someone is interested).

MadDriver11 · Aug 29, 2022

RaceNut said:
As I recall, Reiza stated that the car physics would be at a stable point with the release of v1.4 but, there would still be much unfinished. It stands to reason that other aspects remain WIP, including the AI.

Similarly, there is a sequence of development that needs to occur related to MP and Career modes. WIP.

As one who plays the beta quite often, I'm amazed that Reiza managed to complete as much as they did in the 11th hour, leading up to release. I seriously doubt there is a harder working team in Sim-racing development.

I only have appreciation for what they do. Thank you Reiza, and all the team members / internal Beta testers / players giving feedback.

There is indeed a sequence: until physics are settled it is difficult to calibrate AI and their behavior. In facts even Reiza posted in the forum that there are known issues about AI overtaking each other but I must say in the last months AI behavior vs player has improved in many ways.
I think now with a more stable "human target" Reiza will be able to start really going into smaller details with AI behavior.

MadDriver11 · Aug 29, 2022

Luciano Santos Filho said:
I do have issues with the DPi class, from those mentioned above, in 2h races with accelerated tyre wear/fuel consumption. A lot... they really pit too early.

Apparently, if you set the race to have only one refuelling pitstop with some margin (let's say, if the car has 101L tank and the race is set to use 170L), the AI will pit once and the race will be fine.

If the race is longer than that, then it doesn't work well.

Indeed you want to have a clear cut number of stops in your race so that you as human cannot exploit the more intelligent "fuel saving" strategy.
I believe the accelerated fuel consumption compels the problem and anyway I would not recommend using it with AI. Why doing such a long race and accelerating the fuel consumption anyway? DPis barely do 45 minutes. On a 2 hours race is a two stops strategy minimum.
Anyway, I have never seen what some people say that AI stops 8 time when the player stops 3.
If that is the case it's worth reporting in the forum because it surely isn't about AI strategy but some other bug in fuel consumption calculation,

Luciano Santos Filho · Aug 29, 2022

MadDriver11 said:
Indeed you want to have a clear cut number of stops in your race so that you as human cannot exploit the more intelligent "fuel saving" strategy.
I believe the accelerated fuel consumption compels the problem and anyway I would not recommend using it with AI. Why doing such a long race and accelerating the fuel consumption anyway? DPis barely do 45 minutes. On a 2 hours race is a two stops strategy minimum.
Anyway, I have never seen what some people say that AI stops 8 time when the player stops 3.
If that is the case it's worth reporting in the forum because it surely isn't about AI strategy but some other bug in fuel consumption calculation,

Actually, when racing with the DPI I don't use the accelerated fuel consumption. And yet, the AI pits more than it should.

I have reported this issue in the AMS2 forum more than once.

Kingkoenig · Aug 29, 2022

Luciano Santos Filho said:
I do have issues with the DPi class, from those mentioned above, in 2h races with accelerated tyre wear/fuel consumption. A lot... they really pit too early.

All this talk about the AI pitting too early or too often makes me ask: Maybe Reiza decided to program the Ferrari strategists into the game?

Luciano Santos Filho · Aug 29, 2022

Kingkoenig said:
All this talk about the AI pitting too early or too often makes me ask: Maybe Reiza decided to program the Ferrari strategists into the game?

That's the first explanation that actually makes sense

RaceNut · Aug 29, 2022

Spinelli said:
Lol, are you implying that career modes must have things such as voiceovers, characters, supposed drama, cut-scenes, etc. If that's what people think I meant by career mode than they're misunderstanding big time. I HATE that stuff. All I meant by career mode is exactly what I wrote. Start in low tiered / slow cars and move your way up to faster cars and bigger tracks. That's it. No drama, characters, cut-scenes crap.

Yup, I never stated any thing contrary to what you wrote. I pretty-much agree with all you said.

Yes, different wheels, different FFB settings, tactile feedback, etc. can make you feel more things going on, can help you drive better due to feeling more, etc. But I've never in my life had my opinion of physics changed due to different FFB settings, different wheels, tactile, etc. I've played using the Logitch wheels, multiple Thrustmasters, multiple Fanatecs, Open Sim Wheel, SImucube 1, Accuforce, and Simucube 2 (current wheel. The cars' physics have never magically changed (and they won't) just because I upgraded from, let's say, a Thrustmaster T500RS to a Simucube 2. In some ways the FFB will be different, of course, because it's a different wheel but the car's physics don't magically change. Different wheels, different FFB settings, tactile, etc. can potentially help with laptimes, consistency, immersion, fun, etc. but the physics don't change.

Not quite. I said the ffb can influence our perception (i.e.., through car-handling) of the physics, not that it alters the physics itself.

Kingkoenig · Aug 29, 2022

Injafaz said:
Licensing issues with F USA 2022. Another uncharacteristic delay at the 11th hour.

Look on the bright side: Reiza is rumoured to be discussing an official license with Indycar and that would be the explanation for the delay.

This could mean more US tracks, official liveries, etc. Maybe Indycar realized that Motorsports Games would never deliver the official Indycar game and heard that there was a studio who had been creating Indycar content for a very long time?

RaceNut · Aug 29, 2022

MadDriver11 said:
There is indeed a sequence: until physics are settled it is difficult to calibrate AI and their behavior. In facts even Reiza posted in the forum that there are known issues about AI overtaking each other but I must say in the last months AI behavior vs player has improved in many ways.
I think now with a more stable "human target" Reiza will be able to start really going into smaller details with AI behavior.

Indeed, and it's not just about calibrating AI. First there are layers of calibrating chassis & suspension, tires, varied track conditions / weather conditions, racing scenarios, etc., etc.

It may be easy for people to assume these tasks are completed in phases, and then move on to the next but, the interdependency of various systems has to be immense.

MadDriver11 · Aug 29, 2022

Luciano Santos Filho said:
Actually, when racing with the DPI I don't use the accelerated fuel consumption. And yet, the AI pits more than it should.

I have reported this issue in the AMS2 forum more than once.

It will pit one more time than you. But I've heard people saying AIs could pit an exaggerated amount of times in some cases (like 8 times instead of 2 or 3). The first is a matter of strategy optimization in the AI logic. The second is a matter of some glitch in the consumption for AI as far as I understood and when found has to be reported with clear info (car, track, settings of the race etc.) and in some cases has been already rectified.

Luciano Santos Filho · Aug 29, 2022

MadDriver11 said:
It will pit one more time than you. But I've heard people saying AIs could pit an exaggerated amount of times in some cases (like 8 times instead of 2 or 3). The first is a matter of strategy optimization in the AI logic. The second is a matter of some glitch in the consumption for AI as far as I understood and when found has to be reported with clear info (car, track, settings of the race etc.) and in some cases has been already rectified.

Could you please point out where exactly I should report this specific issue?

Automobilista 2 | Game Changing Updates, Including Spa-Francorchamps 2022

Advanced Mechanical Damage Modeling​

Tire Updates​

New Vehicles​

New Area Packages​

Yes VR = Yes Buy?!​

Balance of Performance​

Multiclass Grids​

More To Come​

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Advanced Mechanical Damage Modeling

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Yes VR = Yes Buy?!

Balance of Performance

Multiclass Grids

More To Come