Laguna Seca is the Latest Confirmed Content Coming to rFactor 2

Just2Laps said:

fully agreed ! absolutely dated compared to others !View attachment 563895

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I have no idea how people see the world through their own eyes but neither his screenshot nor your screenshot looks particulary realsitic and would make me wow. It's obvious that you are using AC with CSP and SOL. And despite that it looks more cinematic I allways have the feeling that the world is made out of plastic and everything is artificial. And if I am completely honest, when I compare rF2 in it's current form and AC without any shaders or what ever, then it's pretty clear wich sim offers a more realistic visual experience while offering everything out of the box. But mileage may vary. Some are looking for a cinematic experience, some are looking for a lifelike visual look. For example, I allways liked the style of iRacing, eventhough it's a bit on the yellow side, but the balance of everything is simply pretty good. Anyway, rFactor 2 can look very nice if you use the right content and aren't running it on a potato:

Either you buy these DLC's now and you support MSG. Or you wait until the legal aspect is done and then buy DLC's in order to support S397.

Nobody want to support MSG. So I think it's probably better to NOT buy the DLC's and wait until we have (legal) verification the revenue goes to S397 and not to MSG.

gianlucaP said:

And how many times does he have to point out the same exact thing in the RF2 news threads?

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I've checked and he commented in the last one but not what he posted here.
He also posts in other games as well and as I've already said doesn't break our rules, we are a discussion forum so opinions are going to differ.
Now let's get back on topic.

Botmeister said:

Either you buy these DLC's now and you support MSG. Or you wait until the legal aspect is done and then buy DLC's in order to support S397.

Nobody want to support MSG. So I think it's probably better to NOT buy the DLC's and wait until we have (legal) verification the revenue goes to S397 and not to MSG.

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I hope you are aware who is paying those lisences and the people who create the content? Sometimes I have the feeling that people don't know how corporate systems work. And it get's even more problematic if we consider that there are alot of times a few foul apples who make the hard work of others in the same company look like the root of all evil. S397 are simply doing their job including other people working for MSG.

I also have another very abstract example for this: Nordschleife including the Nürburgring is one of the most requested and used tracks in sim racing. I suspect, people wouldn't be able to use it if they knew about the corrupt shennanigans that happened in the past between track owners, investors and the government and how much money got burnt for nonesense like the rollercoaster. Would you put the people who are corrupt in the same boat as the track marshal who is simply doing his job just to boycott the few foul apples? If yes, then please stick to your principles.

Pepper606 said:

NOW we get Laguna Seca? After how long!
Each time it just convinces me more that its a rudderless ship.
Is there no planning? No direction?

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I know what is rudderless and it's not this... if there is new content, it's because MSG's other games are not coming out, it's because it's rudderless, it's expensive, yada yada yada...
Just tell me what is rudderless in rFactor 2 being OFFICIALLY licensed to be the sim used in eSports IndyCar events? And within that receiving DLC tracks which form part of the IndyCar calendar?!?

Perhaps your dictionary has a bizarre synonym for "rudderless" because, frankly, only a rudderless mind would reach the conclusion you did...

MJQT said:

If they continue to improve the AI, I'll buy the heck out of this. Multiclass AI racing with Cadillac DPi (and the Acura mod), LMP2s and lots of GT3s, with IMSA skins at a first-party Laguna with dynamic weather... chef's kiss That's the dream!

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Test it now with the Release Candidate/Beta improved AI (and the adjustments in the player.json file).

tr1v1um said:

I have no idea how people see the world through their own eyes but neither his screenshot nor your screenshot looks particulary realsitic and would make me wow. It's obvious that you are using AC with CSP and SOL. And despite that it looks more cinematic I allways have the feeling that the world is made out of plastic and everything is artificial. And if I am completely honest, when I compare rF2 in it's current form and AC without any shaders or what ever, then it's pretty clear wich sim offers a more realistic visual experience while offering everything out of the box. But mileage may vary. Some are looking for a cinematic experience, some are looking for a lifelike visual look. For example, I allways liked the style of iRacing, eventhough it's a bit on the yellow side, but the balance of everything is simply pretty good. Anyway, rFactor 2 can look very nice if you use the right content and aren't running it on a potato:
View attachment 563911
View attachment 563912
View attachment 563914

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At its best rFactor 2 might not look the flashiest among the current sims, but it can look very very natural. The PBR material they use for tarmac is phenomenal. But the visual disparity between the best and average looking content is huge, which might make a very bad (first) impression.

v4v474 said:

Test it now with the Release Candidate/Beta improved AI (and the adjustments in the player.json file).

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I have tried it after you recommended it in the BTCC thread and it seems to be much improved, especially that faster classes can indeed overtake during the pit lap now (though I tested it only in practice session). Is there a list of player.json tweaks somewhere you would recommend?

tr1v1um said:

I hope you are aware who is paying those lisences and the people who create the content? Sometimes I have the feeling that people don't know how corporate systems work. And it get's even more problematic if we consider that there are alot of times a few foul apples who make the hard work of others in the same company look like the root of all evil. S397 are simply doing their job including other people working for MSG.

I also have another very abstract example for this: Nordschleife including the Nürburgring is one of the most requested and used tracks in sim racing. I suspect, people wouldn't be able to use it if they knew about the corrupt shennanigans that happened in the past between track owners, investors and the government and how much money got burnt for nonesense like the rollercoaster. Would you put the people who are corrupt in the same boat as the track marshal who is simply doing his job just to boycott the few foul apples? If yes, then please stick to your principles.

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I'm sorry but I don't understand your reply. I'm not aware who is paying licenses, as far as I know it's MSG who has legal ownership, right? Please tell me more, your explanation doesn't say much unfortunately.

I though I read that some organizations are already working on leaving MSG and trying to get their licenses back. And if S397 is planning to leave as well it might be worth to wait buying those DLC's until the legal aspect is done.

TurboT said:

Couldn't agree more, I brought this up on their forum and many agreed with me but they completely ignored the subject. They don't care at all(as always). It's indeed immersion breaking.

Besides that: an another track announced, but still no working multiplayer and still a pre-alpha engine with so many old content that is still terrible/old/not fixed. Come on, work on/fix all the bugs first, make sure that multiplayer servers with good official content(instead of mod's that look like they come from the stone ages) are hosted an WORKING stable, fix all the old cars, balance them out and bring them all to an equal level visually and in terms of handling'/physics. THEN release new tracks! Without that, all new content is absolute nonsense.

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You know that the Multiplayer servers are 99% owned/managed by users and that there is a separate area within the UI with the Competition System where you have official contents, don't you?
Are you aware that S397's content - in general - is all of high quality and that you are asking for updates on content which is "legacy" (made by ISI) and that there could be licensing issues preventing it from being updated by S397?
Or are you a professional complainer who just talks out of your behind like so many others?
And yes, there are still bugs and areas where improvement is needed, but you want to achieve that without generating revenue?
Do you think S397 is a charity?
And are you aware that significant improvements are being tested under the Release Candidate, including, the AI pit logic being vastly improved: able to manage tyres vis-a-vis the track conditions, faster class cars no longer getting always stuck behind slower class cars when they are in their in-lap (there are circumstances when this may still happen)?
And that track conditions, its evolution and grip in rainy/wet conditions are now improved? Including that the rubbered line has less grip in the wet than off the racing-line (the "wet-line")?

Peter Kerényi said:

At its best rFactor 2 might not look the flashiest among the current sims, but it can look very very natural. The PBR material they use for tarmac is phenomenal. But the visual disparity between the best and average looking content is huge, which might make a very bad (first) impression.

I have tried it after you recommended it in the BTCC thread and it seems to be much improved, especially that faster classes can indeed overtake during the pit lap now (though I tested it only in practice session). Is there a list of player.json tweaks somewhere you would recommend?

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Yes, check the S397 Forum on: Third Party Content / AIW
Mark Pearce / Top Secret has excellent recommendations.
I have seen other recommendations which are an evolution of Mark's, but his are already a huge improvement.
And after you introduce those tweaks, be sure to continue to run Practice and Quali (you can speed up the time).

Botmeister said:

I'm sorry but I don't understand your reply. I'm not aware who is paying licenses, as far as I know it's MSG who has legal ownership, right? Please tell me more, your explanation doesn't say much unfortunately.

I though I read that some organizations are already working on leaving MSG and trying to get their licenses back. And if S397 is planning to leave as well it might be worth to wait buying those DLC's until the legal aspect is done.

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You read many things, but you could also have read a statement where NASCAR expressly dispelled the rumors that they were looking to terminate the licence and said that they were looking forward for many years of close cooperation with MSG.
This does not mean that NASCAR is not having "buyers' remorse", they probably have, however, if you knew anything about Law and contracts (I do), you would stop believing everything you read.
Any attempt to terminate licensing agreements when we have been enduring a pandemic would be opening a can of worms with a really uncertain outcome as force majeure provisions could be invoked by MSG to justify the Ignition fiasco and you can bet your behind that if MSG won the lawsuit, the $$$$ windfall coming their way would be more profitable than a successful NASCAR game series...

Austin Ogonoski said:

Honestly this is the silver lining in the MSGM fiasco that's been brewing for a while now.

With all of their "games" supposedly being built on the rF platform, if things ever go tits up they can just sell the assets they created as DLC for rFactor 2.

Donington + Brands + BTCC cars were most likely created for the BTCC game that's... vanished, meanwhile the IR18 and Laguna were probably the first pieces worked on for the 2023 Indy game.

How long until they announce a NASCAR Gen 7 car?

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The NexGen stockcar has been already in development for a while by the same guys who made the S397's StockCar 2018 and StockCar2018X, so when it comes, it's not because of Ignition is a turd or because MSG is floundering.
It's because it was already being done since before Ignition was launched and, therefore, at the most,
the only thing that MSG brings to that under development official content is the fact that, with a good degree of certainty, the cars will have their real names and badges and that, due to this fact, instead of being free content, it may come out as a DLC (which would make it the opposite of a silver-lining) :-D
Now that I fed you a good theme, you can prepare your next video:
MSG imminent bankruptcy pushes S397 to sell as DLC a mod which traditionally was free
Enjoy the clicks (or the job offer from MSG a la SMS) :-D

Botmeister said:

Either you buy these DLC's now and you support MSG. Or you wait until the legal aspect is done and then buy DLC's in order to support S397.

Nobody want to support MSG. So I think it's probably better to NOT buy the DLC's and wait until we have (legal) verification the revenue goes to S397 and not to MSG.

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And you got yourself a law degree from where? Curious to know...

Botmeister said:

I'm sorry but I don't understand your reply. I'm not aware who is paying licenses, as far as I know it's MSG who has legal ownership, right? Please tell me more, your explanation doesn't say much unfortunately.

I though I read that some organizations are already working on leaving MSG and trying to get their licenses back. And if S397 is planning to leave as well it might be worth to wait buying those DLC's until the legal aspect is done.

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S397 is part of MSG. Same as Audi, Porsche and Seat are part of the VW group with VW building their own cars despite giving money for stuff like the F1 entry for 2026 or sportscar racing in the past. In the same way MSG pays the lisences and people creating the content. One guy in the official forum said that you can like Audi or Porsche but hate VW. But that's not how it works and I just told him to better not take a closer look at his exchange parts for his cute little Porsche or Audi. Those groups are big networks, where knowhow, employes and in the case of VW alot of car parts/aka content is shared between the different manufacturers. I can tell you, I won't drive my '86 Golf Mk. II, that shares quite alot of parts with cars like the Audi 80/100 or even from the Quattro into the car press just to set a statement against the corrupt idiots in the VW group who pulled great moves like the diesel scandal.

And in the same way I won't boycott S397 simply to set a statement against a CEO - people who aren't tied in any way to the real work that is done in a corporation by passionate, skilled and talented people - just to say f*ck you. And despite the fact, that I don't like Nascar Heat or some other products by said company, I see that there is real progress and effort put into rF2 to polish it and carry on the project. S397 has been working together with MSG for quite some time now, so I would think that MSG aren't just a bunch of talentless, lying idiots. And no matter how often people say something else, it's alot easier to make YT videos talking to yourself in your moms basement than to bring something to the table and create stuff like this track or to organize big events like the Virtual le mans races. "But oh ma gawd, they lied about the spectator numbers, those evil marketing people."

v4v474 said:

And you got yourself a law degree from where? Curious to know...

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I don't have a law degree and just talk along on a discussion board. That's what internet boards are for. Also I don't assume I know anything about law because I just suggested to stay away from these DLC's without bringing along legal do's and dont's. Simply wait it out.

I also don't like your attitude. You can explain something to people in order to educate them about a subject you know something about.

I see we've drifted a bit off topic again guys.

@Botmeister You like rF2 and want the stuff and can afford it - you buy it. Otherwise - you don't, as simple as that.

I don't understand these kind of "sanctions" being attempted to impose on rF2, because some manipulative content creator has launched propaganda campaign to "save" us. These are just informational wars, basic mind engineering stuff meant to confuse and gaslight. It is obvious when there is no benefit of a doubt given.

mantasisg said:

I don't understand these kind of "sanctions" being attempted to impose on rF2, because some manipulative content creator has launched propaganda campaign to "save" us. These are just informational wars, basic mind engineering stuff meant to confuse and gaslight. It is obvious when there is no benefit of a doubt given.

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Speaking of gaslighting, I don't remember that "manipulative content creator" talking negatively about rF2 in his MSG posts or videos pertaining to their financial problems and the dubious nature of their CEO? What am I missing here?

I guess as long as overall, the sim community is getting content for various sims, then it's all good?

Gevatter said:

Speaking of gaslighting, I don't remember that "manipulative content creator" talking negatively about rF2 in his MSG posts or videos pertaining to their financial problems and the dubious nature of their CEO? What am I missing here?

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The key words are "I don't remember" not long ago there were series of severely negative videos from Austin highlighting and even amplifying several rF2 issues.

You might also don't remember his relationship with Assetto Corsa while it was on its way up.

Now rF2 is on its way up. And what he does essentially is putting on this dark dirty shroud on it. By attacking a hand that feeds it right now. The more successful steps on development of rF2 will be, the more intense attack will be. Why would this fun spoiling for us who love latest content announcements and latest release candidate, not to mention first quarter content and update which also were mighty fine for rF2 ?

The whole thing is that rF2 has to be mastered and polished in order for MSG to actually be able to release new titles that would actually be good. It is this simple. (additionally it is a proof why rF3 can't even be considered yet).