rFactor 2 Deploys Hotfix to Improve AI Racing

Durge Driven said:

I may have something for you to try.
Soon will be releasing a mod I commissioned that shows what can be done with stone age ( I like that lol ) content.
When you setup and drive this mod then go and drive the original car you are simply going to be gob smacked.
Stay tuned

P.S. This mod makes for the closest online racing as you can get.

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Durge Driven said:

I may have something for you to try.
Soon will be releasing a mod I commissioned that shows what can be done with stone age ( I like that lol ) content.
When you setup and drive this mod then go and drive the original car you are simply going to be gob smacked.
Stay tuned

P.S. This mod makes for the closest online racing as you can get.

Click to expand...

Badwheels said:

I insist that Studio 397 put the AI behavior back to the way it was. It was great training for the nimrods that I race against online.

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gamma123152 said:

No offensive, but the mod's ruined rF2 for me. There is not a single populated server in rF2 that hosts recent original content and that has some racers in it, zero. It ALWAYS starts downloading mod's and then when I'm in the server(in 10% of the cases it succeeds, in most cases I cannot even download the stuff/it crashes) the game looks horrible compared to the original content of rF2 that I can play ONLY with hotlapping. But I don't like to hotlap/timetrails AT ALL, I want to race against humans, but it's simply not possible. I would have preferred if rF2 had zero mod's/mod's disabled for online and a good server system so that the game was actually playable with proper content of consistent quality. But that won't ever be the case, so rF2 is an unplayable sim for me. Even while it does have good content/vr/ffb/physics/graphics, so it's a big loss.

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pz666 said:

Yeah the AI was fine around 5 years ago... Then S397 tried something and it failed... It wouldn't be at all surprising to see them just revert to the ISI AI code...

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roadyroad said:

That's exactly why I've always thought rfactor2 needed a dedicated team to the modding support. Such an ambitious title relying on modded content, it has always been beyond me to see this part of the game staying ignorezmd ans abandoned ; and so modders abandoned modding for this game and sticked to AC, and so we now have a bunch of obsolete content on the workshop and it's been hard to think of buying official content because it may have be men abandoned in few time later after several general updates, like all the previous official content.

Unfortunately the problem you've identified is just the logic consequence of this bad strategy. It's a pity because it seems rfactor2's physics and tire model seem to have been stabilized for a long time and it would be the right time to update all the existing mods without fearing everything will get broken in a few months. At least these old.mods played online...

Well, I stop my rant, it's always been ignored and, worse, badly received by rfactor2's players. I take the game as it is, just waiting a good AI update to race offline with the.most up to date content. It is what rfactor2 has become, the more ambitious project is over. If at least this narrower part of the project could work perfectly, I'd be happy after all these years. The game seems on the right way.

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Captain Beardface said:

Never thought I'd see the day. RF2 used to have the best AI in the business until they borked it a few years back. Glad they've got it in focus. I expect they're doing this to ready up for their new title.

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roadyroad said:

That's exactly why I've always thought rfactor2 needed a dedicated team to the modding support. Such an ambitious title relying on modded content, it has always been beyond me to see this part of the game staying ignorezmd ans abandoned ; and so modders abandoned modding for this game and sticked to AC, and so we now have a bunch of obsolete content on the workshop and it's been hard to think of buying official content because it may have be men abandoned in few time later after several general updates, like all the previous official content.

Unfortunately the problem you've identified is just the logic consequence of this bad strategy. It's a pity because it seems rfactor2's physics and tire model seem to have been stabilized for a long time and it would be the right time to update all the existing mods without fearing everything will get broken in a few months. At least these old.mods played online...

Well, I stop my rant, it's always been ignored and, worse, badly received by rfactor2's players. I take the game as it is, just waiting a good AI update to race offline with the.most up to date content. It is what rfactor2 has become, the more ambitious project is over. If at least this narrower part of the project could work perfectly, I'd be happy after all these years. The game seems on the right way.

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Leynad777 said:

Even without mods what bugs me most is the inconsistency of the content regarding FFB-gain and seating position while both is just f-ing annoying to adjust. Still no shortcuts to adjust the FFB while driving and the seat....seat....seating position keys seems to be in nanometer increments.

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gamma123152 said:

No offensive, but the mod's ruined rF2 for me. There is not a single populated server in rF2 that hosts recent original content and that has some racers in it, zero. It ALWAYS starts downloading mod's and then when I'm in the server(in 10% of the cases it succeeds, in most cases I cannot even download the stuff/it crashes) the game looks horrible compared to the original content of rF2 that I can play ONLY with hotlapping. But I don't like to hotlap/timetrails AT ALL, I want to race against humans, but it's simply not possible. I would have preferred if rF2 had zero mod's/mod's disabled for online and a good server system so that the game was actually playable with proper content of consistent quality. But that won't ever be the case, so rF2 is an unplayable sim for me. Even while it does have good content/vr/ffb/physics/graphics, so it's a big loss.

Click to expand...

roadyroad said:

That's exactly why I've always thought rfactor2 needed a dedicated team to the modding support. Such an ambitious title relying on modded content, it has always been beyond me to see this part of the game staying ignorezmd ans abandoned ; and so modders abandoned modding for this game and sticked to AC, and so we now have a bunch of obsolete content on the workshop and it's been hard to think of buying official content because it may have be men abandoned in few time later after several general updates, like all the previous official content.

Unfortunately the problem you've identified is just the logic consequence of this bad strategy. It's a pity because it seems rfactor2's physics and tire model seem to have been stabilized for a long time and it would be the right time to update all the existing mods without fearing everything will get broken in a few months. At least these old.mods played online...

Well, I stop my rant, it's always been ignored and, worse, badly received by rfactor2's players. I take the game as it is, just waiting a good AI update to race offline with the.most up to date content. It is what rfactor2 has become, the more ambitious project is over. If at least this narrower part of the project could work perfectly, I'd be happy after all these years. The game seems on the right way.

Click to expand...

tr1v1um said:

rF2 not having enough modding or general support? Are you for real? I don't know what you guys are smoking but reading statements like that make me completely shake my head and wonder if some of your guys claiming that have actually tried it or understood that you are recieving updates for a game for ten years now. But I guess you don't even know that there is a DEV guide well worth a book reading. All the info you need to build a car or track for rF2 is out there. The info that is there is overwhelming. When I started modding Battlefield 2 around 12 years ago I would have liked to have such a huge amount of well documented information from EA or DICE at that time with a forum to engage with the developers. All the knowledge that I gathered over the years was self studie and lot's of trial and error with a few nice individuals in the community sharing their knowledge. People just don't know how well they are supported by Kunos or S397, wich is a bit of a shame. And surprise, surprise: there is someone who needs to be payed to offer that support. So better think about that the next time you complain about DLC pricing or pick up the pitchfork when a mod isn't perfect.

Modding took more off in AC because it's simply easier to mod and offers a naturally bigger playerbase. Another huge advantage of AC is that it hasn't recieved official updates since a couple of years now. Times are easily forgotten, when AC updates broke the sounds and there are mods out there for AC that aren't usable anymore aswell. rF2 is a very complex, still evolving product, wich makes it much harder to mod. Long story, short answer. And the proof is in the pudding as they say. There aren't as many fantastic mods out there as for AC for example, but there are enough great examples that showcase that well executed modding projects are possible. I just need to drive a lap around Dundrod or Knockhill to know that there was enough support.

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roadyroad said:

Lowering your tone and listening ot others will be much appreciated ; getting emotional just blind yourself. You absolutely missed my point and at the same time just gave the arguments which have always made it. I have already went into details many times before and can't see the need to do it again, it is to late for that, rfactor2 went in another direction, I'm ok with that, it's neither my game or my life. There just a part of the game, after all the investments you were absolutely right to mention, and that no one denies, which is partially lost because the investment, which I called "support", has not been enough. P1ssionate 1nd dedicated ldeveloppers do not replace good project management (in general both are even incompatible), that is were your confusion is imho.

Half the investment, half the job, less than half the result.

What you don't understand, and what the developpers of this new game announced lately, iPista Motorsport, does, is mod management, not tutorials, help and half backed workshop. Mod management is just the next step to be a successful full features moddable racing sim, it is just, to sum up, offiicial quality control ; it hasn't been done before, rfactor 2 had to do it, it didn't (probably the same with AMS2 in the next years). Proof is, rfactor2 is a failure face to a largely inferior, in terms of features (even with CM, sol...), title like AC. AC mod success just relies on its development termination and its lack of features.

You got it, it is indeed too bad mods become obsolete because the game has been evolving during years and because the workshop haven't been able to give any indication on the mods (the only thing you can do is filtering on dates and trying to figure out if the mod is ok reading more or less useful comments, which may be also obsolete depending on the date they have been published and the taste of the posters ; and youbhave tongo through all you subscribed mods). It is just a mess. And previous official content are not up to date, what a good example for modders and.the community (if a company don't care about parts of its own game, who cares?).

And you're right avout AC when many mods have been lost after a specific update which broke the car sounds. It happened once though. And stopping the development of the game may was a bad sim move but it was a a great business one. And we know the rest of the story, a hotlapping game taking the lead of the racing sim market, on which it's not really competent (don't get me wrong, I like AC).

Ambitious games need ambitious means to work. And rfactor2's ambition required ambitious true modding management, a whole dedicated team working with the modders, helping them to update their published content, taking out the obsolete content or modifying it if possible, to avoid losing content, which should have been a major selling point for the game (it is obviously not the case now); we touch the frontier between official content, licensing and mods there, an interestkng question that would have been rised if the job had been fully done on that aspect.

If everyring possible had been done to make modding successful in rfactor2, we would see the result, and it is obviously no there, especially considering the age of the game. You are blindly focusing on technical aspects support of mods, the exact same mistake this game has been making from the beginning. There's a real notion of managing mods and a community. I can understand ISI initial developers may have ignored that aspect because of a lack of vision about the online social network management (or because it wasn't just a priority), not just managing a community, but this has never been changed. Being the lack of means and money isn't my concern there, it just has never been considered in the project. I would say Reiza should be aware of that in their future official modding support, especially since its only for cars, which are the main target of updates (that's exactly why I don't even bother with installing modded cars in AMS2).

Again, I'm glad Pista Motorsport team has come to the exact same conclusion, which means rfactor2's mistakes are not useless at the end, for other developpers though.

What has been done, or not done in that case, will stay in that state, we have to keep passion aside to stop the frustration and the passionate non sense debates, and to analyze these experimental softwares to be able to enter a new era of solid experiences. Let's hope MSG and S397 are entering this era.

EDIT : it is strange to get such offended reaction especially after I've stated I didn't care anymore and was ok with rfactor2 how it is now. I just unsuscribed many mods and wait for a good ypdate to be able to race offline with cars I enjoy, being mods or paid content (Enduracers, Kartsim, old official GT3s and eformulas, F1 1975, Reiza pack...). The tracks 1re at worst just obsolete graphically, it may be annoying (under rainy conditions without water) but there's always something usable. I understand the lack of quality of life bothers many users, by chance I am ok with that. We accept many unacceptable things (in 2023) in rfactor2... is it he right rime to play rfactor2? We'll see, the oosts here are quiet confusing as everything and its contrary can be reas.

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sbabb said:

The thing you wanted/asked for/expected wasnt really realistic.
Mods are inevitably going to become outdated over time in a game that is still in development. This cant be prevented and shouldnt, the game devs cant just go and update user made content, its not their content and cant even officially be used by them -> licensing.
The only thing a dedicated modding team within the devs could do would be to remove old content, but why would you remove something someone may or may not want to use?
Its the same issue with some old isi content, it cant be updated (depending on the individual content its either the lack of license, the fact its 3rd party and has no source file or both that doesnt allow it), which is why some of it is already in a seperate workshop list. They should also not be removed, the may be a bit terrible now, but still working and being used in some capacity by users.

This is pretty much true for all modding games ever, the prime time usually is when the game isnt updated anymore and mods dont break, as after a few years some mod makers are just not coming back for some stuff. A little comment to Pista, so far there has been a bit of talk here or there, unless there is going to be a playable game I wont believe anything, by now Im used to games being overpromised.

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roadyroad said:

Lowering your tone and listening ot others will be much appreciated ; getting emotional just blind yourself. You absolutely missed my point and at the same time just gave the arguments which have always made it. I have already went into details many times before and can't see the need to do it again, it is to late for that, rfactor2 went in another direction, I'm ok with that, it's neither my game or my life. There just a part of the game, after all the investments you were absolutely right to mention, and that no one denies, which is partially lost because the investment, which I called "support", has not been enough. P1ssionate 1nd dedicated ldeveloppers do not replace good project management (in general both are even incompatible), that is were your confusion is imho.

Half the investment, half the job, less than half the result.

What you don't understand, and what the developpers of this new game announced lately, iPista Motorsport, does, is mod management, not tutorials, help and half backed workshop. Mod management is just the next step to be a successful full features moddable racing sim, it is just, to sum up, offiicial quality control ; it hasn't been done before, rfactor 2 had to do it, it didn't (probably the same with AMS2 in the next years). Proof is, rfactor2 is a failure face to a largely inferior, in terms of features (even with CM, sol...), title like AC. AC mod success just relies on its development termination and its lack of features.

You got it, it is indeed too bad mods become obsolete because the game has been evolving during years and because the workshop haven't been able to give any indication on the mods (the only thing you can do is filtering on dates and trying to figure out if the mod is ok reading more or less useful comments, which may be also obsolete depending on the date they have been published and the taste of the posters ; and youbhave tongo through all you subscribed mods). It is just a mess. And previous official content are not up to date, what a good example for modders and.the community (if a company don't care about parts of its own game, who cares?).

And you're right avout AC when many mods have been lost after a specific update which broke the car sounds. It happened once though. And stopping the development of the game may was a bad sim move but it was a a great business one. And we know the rest of the story, a hotlapping game taking the lead of the racing sim market, on which it's not really competent (don't get me wrong, I like AC).

Ambitious games need ambitious means to work. And rfactor2's ambition required ambitious true modding management, a whole dedicated team working with the modders, helping them to update their published content, taking out the obsolete content or modifying it if possible, to avoid losing content, which should have been a major selling point for the game (it is obviously not the case now); we touch the frontier between official content, licensing and mods there, an interestkng question that would have been rised if the job had been fully done on that aspect.

If everyring possible had been done to make modding successful in rfactor2, we would see the result, and it is obviously no there, especially considering the age of the game. You are blindly focusing on technical aspects support of mods, the exact same mistake this game has been making from the beginning. There's a real notion of managing mods and a community. I can understand ISI initial developers may have ignored that aspect because of a lack of vision about the online social network management (or because it wasn't just a priority), not just managing a community, but this has never been changed. Being the lack of means and money isn't my concern there, it just has never been considered in the project. I would say Reiza should be aware of that in their future official modding support, especially since its only for cars, which are the main target of updates (that's exactly why I don't even bother with installing modded cars in AMS2).

Again, I'm glad Pista Motorsport team has come to the exact same conclusion, which means rfactor2's mistakes are not useless at the end, for other developpers though.

What has been done, or not done in that case, will stay in that state, we have to keep passion aside to stop the frustration and the passionate non sense debates, and to analyze these experimental softwares to be able to enter a new era of solid experiences. Let's hope MSG and S397 are entering this era.

EDIT : it is strange to get such offended reaction especially after I've stated I didn't care anymore and was ok with rfactor2 how it is now. I just unsuscribed many mods and wait for a good ypdate to be able to race offline with cars I enjoy, being mods or paid content (Enduracers, Kartsim, old official GT3s and eformulas, F1 1975, Reiza pack...). The tracks 1re at worst just obsolete graphically, it may be annoying (under rainy conditions without water) but there's always something usable. I understand the lack of quality of life bothers many users, by chance I am ok with that. We accept many unacceptable things (in 2023) in rfactor2... is it he right rime to play rfactor2? We'll see, the oosts here are quiet confusing as everything and its contrary can be reas.

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Durge Driven said:

Just a heads up.

Anyone trying the new AI that also does AI tweak to *.json need to backup and reacquire it from Steam.

Possible old tweaks could break it.

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