rFactor 2 Deploys Hotfix to Improve AI Racing

rFactor 2 AI Hotfix IndyCar Indianapolis Romain Grosjean.jpg
As the multiplayer aspect of sim racing has become increasingly important, focus on the offline elements of a title has become a rarity - which is why singleplayer-focused racers will likely appreciate the latest rFactor 2 update: A hotfix improves numerous issues concerning AI racing and paves the way for a better offline experience.

Image credit: Studio 397

Getting the AI to behave in a believable manner is not an easy task for racing simulations: They should be predictable enough to be at the same competitive level relative to the player for certain difficulty settings, but not behave like robots on track, instead mimicking the behavior of real pilots. The latter point has received special attention in the rF2 update.

The computer-controlled opposition tended to lift off the throttle in the middle of a corner when shown a blue flag, and running into the rear of players who braked and changed direction also did not contribute to pleasant racing against the AI. Both of these issues have been taken care of, as well as better lapping behavior and the elimination of suicidal overtaking manoeuvers that lead to accidents.

rFactor 2 Ford Focus ST 2023 BTCC Brands Hatch.png

Races against the AI should be a much smoother affair after rFactor 2's most recent patch. Image credit: Studio 397

Emergency Overdrive​

Avoiding crashes via an emergency mode is also on the improvement list: Studio 397 has implemented this feature so the AI will overdrive the car to avoid an obstacle, which may still lead to spins or crashes, but should prevent them from mindlessly running into an avoidable obstacle.

Unrelated to the AI, the patch also fixes an issue that many sims have had over the years, namely that of unrealistic AI lap times when skipping to the end of a session. They are now simulated to prevent ultra-fast, impossible times that leave the player stranded further back in the standings than they should have been.

You can find the full changelog of the update below.

Build: 11731633
Server: 11731638


Change log:​

  • Fixed cars rolling over
  • Introduced behaviour to deal with understeer and oversteer
Fixed various issues related to AI limits:
  • AI no longer ignore walls to attempt an overtake
  • AI won’t deliberately leave the track anymore to overtake
  • AI only leave the track if they get pushed off, rather than going into the grass to keep their safety distance to other cars

  • Fixed AI attempting to overtake when the laws of physics would not allow them to leave their line without crashing
  • Fixed an issue where cars would refuse to pit because other cars already requested a pit stop, causing them to run out of fuel in Qualifying
  • Fixed AI randomly starting to shake and getting confused when overtaking another car, falling back or crashing
  • Fixed cars running off the racing line and sometimes even into walls for a few seconds after spinning
  • Fixed AI sometimes not braking enough for their pit boxes
  • Added a warning to moddev when pit boxes don’t have waypoints, making them inaccessible to AI
  • AI no longer move off the racing line into the middle of the track when shown blue flags, which caused traffic jams
  • In addition to the previous fix, AI no longer lift off in corners when shown the blue flag - They will not fight back and stay predictable, following multiclass rules
  • AI no longer incorrectly interpret player car’s deceleration and change of direction as acceleration - This fixes AI cars rear ending the player
  • Various fixes and improvements for AI pedal inputs, including improved draft behaviour
  • Fixed waypoint lapdist inaccuracies completely disabling AI braking, causing cars to run flat out into walls especially in or near the pits
  • Fixed various issues with obstacle evasion, improving AI behaviour around cars out of control. Known issue: AI still occasionally fail to move off the racing line if they encounter an obstacle on the racing line mid-corner
  • Added emergency state for AI allowing them to overdrive the car if necessary to avoid hitting walls or obstacles
  • Improved safety car physics in wet conditions
  • Fixed AI moving off their lines instantly, causing them to spin frequently if other cars are around - This fixes their behaviour to change lines just enough to get to where they need to be as efficiently as possible
  • Fixed “Finish Session” and “Next Session” to actually finish the session, simulating the rest of it. When the player chooses to skip Qualifying, this will still ensure a reasonable starting grid

Your Thoughts​

What do you think about the focus on the AI for this most recent update? How often do you race offline? Let us know in the comments below!
About author
Yannik Haustein
Lifelong motorsport enthusiast and sim racing aficionado, walking racing history encyclopedia.

Sim racing editor, streamer and one half of the SimRacing Buddies podcast (warning, German!).

Heel & Toe Gang 4 life :D

Comments

I may have something for you to try. :)
Soon will be releasing a mod I commissioned that shows what can be done with stone age ( I like that lol ) content.
When you setup and drive this mod then go and drive the original car you are simply going to be gob smacked.
Stay tuned :x3:

P.S. This mod makes for the closest online racing as you can get.
 
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I may have something for you to try. :)
Soon will be releasing a mod I commissioned that shows what can be done with stone age ( I like that lol ) content.
When you setup and drive this mod then go and drive the original car you are simply going to be gob smacked.
Stay tuned :x3:

P.S. This mod makes for the closest online racing as you can get.
No offensive, but the mod's ruined rF2 for me. There is not a single populated server in rF2 that hosts recent original content and that has some racers in it, zero. It ALWAYS starts downloading mod's and then when I'm in the server(in 10% of the cases it succeeds, in most cases I cannot even download the stuff/it crashes) the game looks horrible compared to the original content of rF2 that I can play ONLY with hotlapping. But I don't like to hotlap/timetrails AT ALL, I want to race against humans, but it's simply not possible. I would have preferred if rF2 had zero mod's/mod's disabled for online and a good server system so that the game was actually playable with proper content of consistent quality. But that won't ever be the case, so rF2 is an unplayable sim for me. Even while it does have good content/vr/ffb/physics/graphics, so it's a big loss.
 
Premium
I may have something for you to try. :)
Soon will be releasing a mod I commissioned that shows what can be done with stone age ( I like that lol ) content.
When you setup and drive this mod then go and drive the original car you are simply going to be gob smacked.
Stay tuned :x3:

P.S. This mod makes for the closest online racing as you can get.
Please let me know when you have this available.
 
ISI could not afford to keep LiveRacers servers up was the start of the end.
Main problem was no admin, car and track combos were not changed regular, races were too short, etc.
Even allowing for problems still had 6,000+ joiners and the 4 rooms were mostly full all day all night. When popular combos were up you could wait for hours to even get in.

What you need to do is find a group of people like the same content and formats and host yourself. I hosted from same PC for years ( F3 Rookies ) had joiners everyday without fail, 330 drivers that I kept record of and their lap times at the 3 historic tracks.
That is still the slowest car in rFactor 2 yet got 100's in.

So I don't know what to say ?
That online simmers are a fickle bunch these days ?
Get off ya' bums and make a effort :)

 
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I insist that Studio 397 put the AI behavior back to the way it was. It was great training for the nimrods that I race against online. :whistling:

Yeah the AI was fine around 5 years ago... Then S397 tried something and it failed... It wouldn't be at all surprising to see them just revert to the ISI AI code...
 
No offensive, but the mod's ruined rF2 for me. There is not a single populated server in rF2 that hosts recent original content and that has some racers in it, zero. It ALWAYS starts downloading mod's and then when I'm in the server(in 10% of the cases it succeeds, in most cases I cannot even download the stuff/it crashes) the game looks horrible compared to the original content of rF2 that I can play ONLY with hotlapping. But I don't like to hotlap/timetrails AT ALL, I want to race against humans, but it's simply not possible. I would have preferred if rF2 had zero mod's/mod's disabled for online and a good server system so that the game was actually playable with proper content of consistent quality. But that won't ever be the case, so rF2 is an unplayable sim for me. Even while it does have good content/vr/ffb/physics/graphics, so it's a big loss.
That's exactly why I've always thought rfactor2 needed a dedicated team to the modding support. Such an ambitious title relying on modded content, it has always been beyond me to see this part of the game staying ignorezmd ans abandoned ; and so modders abandoned modding for this game and sticked to AC, and so we now have a bunch of obsolete content on the workshop and it's been hard to think of buying official content because it may have be men abandoned in few time later after several general updates, like all the previous official content.

Unfortunately the problem you've identified is just the logic consequence of this bad strategy. It's a pity because it seems rfactor2's physics and tire model seem to have been stabilized for a long time and it would be the right time to update all the existing mods without fearing everything will get broken in a few months. At least these old.mods played online...

Well, I stop my rant, it's always been ignored and, worse, badly received by rfactor2's players. I take the game as it is, just waiting a good AI update to race offline with the.most up to date content. It is what rfactor2 has become, the more ambitious project is over. If at least this narrower part of the project could work perfectly, I'd be happy after all these years. The game seems on the right way.
 
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Yeah the AI was fine around 5 years ago... Then S397 tried something and it failed... It wouldn't be at all surprising to see them just revert to the ISI AI code...
Nope.

A lot of the code was re-written or changed heavily very recently.

Source: Devs on the Discord forum.
 
That's exactly why I've always thought rfactor2 needed a dedicated team to the modding support. Such an ambitious title relying on modded content, it has always been beyond me to see this part of the game staying ignorezmd ans abandoned ; and so modders abandoned modding for this game and sticked to AC, and so we now have a bunch of obsolete content on the workshop and it's been hard to think of buying official content because it may have be men abandoned in few time later after several general updates, like all the previous official content.

Unfortunately the problem you've identified is just the logic consequence of this bad strategy. It's a pity because it seems rfactor2's physics and tire model seem to have been stabilized for a long time and it would be the right time to update all the existing mods without fearing everything will get broken in a few months. At least these old.mods played online...

Well, I stop my rant, it's always been ignored and, worse, badly received by rfactor2's players. I take the game as it is, just waiting a good AI update to race offline with the.most up to date content. It is what rfactor2 has become, the more ambitious project is over. If at least this narrower part of the project could work perfectly, I'd be happy after all these years. The game seems on the right way.
This is true - Official support felt like it was non existent at times, but there are still some excellent mods. Just look for those with high ratings that are still coming out, or getting updated
 
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Even without mods what bugs me most is the inconsistency of the content regarding FFB-gain and seating position while both is just f-ing annoying to adjust. Still no shortcuts to adjust the FFB while driving and the seat....seat....seating position keys seems to be in nanometer increments:thumbsdown:.

In one car you sit on the backseat and in another car (even within the same class of official paid rF2-content) you might sit with the face over the dashboard, visually speaking. And once setup correctly, it's only saved globally, so you basically need to adjust the seating position in every session if you don't like to drive the same car every time and the same goes for the horrible mirrors.

Similar with the FFB and this multiplier in the settings, but it's saved to the livery (not the car itself) and once the car gets an update, it's on 100% again. And why do cars with power-steering have typically far stronger default-FFB than cars without? The default-gain in the Caterham, Radical or the 70's cars is just ridiculously low while with GT3/GTE it's like 5 times stronger:mad:. How can I believe in the physics if such simple basics are obviously completely the opposite in reality?
 
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Never thought I'd see the day. RF2 used to have the best AI in the business until they borked it a few years back. Glad they've got it in focus. I expect they're doing this to ready up for their new title.

That's exactly why I've always thought rfactor2 needed a dedicated team to the modding support. Such an ambitious title relying on modded content, it has always been beyond me to see this part of the game staying ignorezmd ans abandoned ; and so modders abandoned modding for this game and sticked to AC, and so we now have a bunch of obsolete content on the workshop and it's been hard to think of buying official content because it may have be men abandoned in few time later after several general updates, like all the previous official content.

Unfortunately the problem you've identified is just the logic consequence of this bad strategy. It's a pity because it seems rfactor2's physics and tire model seem to have been stabilized for a long time and it would be the right time to update all the existing mods without fearing everything will get broken in a few months. At least these old.mods played online...

Well, I stop my rant, it's always been ignored and, worse, badly received by rfactor2's players. I take the game as it is, just waiting a good AI update to race offline with the.most up to date content. It is what rfactor2 has become, the more ambitious project is over. If at least this narrower part of the project could work perfectly, I'd be happy after all these years. The game seems on the right way.
Human beings were prepared by nature to avoid spend much energy. If you can achieve equal or best results with 1/10 of effort, they'll do. Assetto Corsa mod process is much easier and with CSP provides way better results, so no surprise mod comunitty went for that, even more considering they don't make money from it.

As for rF2 aí, did few races with some fellows in a online server plus a bunch of AIs and the result was excellent, remind me the same old RF2 AI of ISI times. Even the Full Course yellow worked more or less flawlessly. Need more tests anyway.
 
Even without mods what bugs me most is the inconsistency of the content regarding FFB-gain and seating position while both is just f-ing annoying to adjust. Still no shortcuts to adjust the FFB while driving and the seat....seat....seating position keys seems to be in nanometer increments:thumbsdown:.
FFB - You can actually.

Open up a web browser and navigate to the following address:

Yes - not ideal, in fact really rather stupid, but hey, it's a work around :D
 
This fix came a little too late for me when it comes to rF2 but this is excellent news for the upcoming Le Mans game. I have high expectations on the AI of that game.
 
No offensive, but the mod's ruined rF2 for me. There is not a single populated server in rF2 that hosts recent original content and that has some racers in it, zero. It ALWAYS starts downloading mod's and then when I'm in the server(in 10% of the cases it succeeds, in most cases I cannot even download the stuff/it crashes) the game looks horrible compared to the original content of rF2 that I can play ONLY with hotlapping. But I don't like to hotlap/timetrails AT ALL, I want to race against humans, but it's simply not possible. I would have preferred if rF2 had zero mod's/mod's disabled for online and a good server system so that the game was actually playable with proper content of consistent quality. But that won't ever be the case, so rF2 is an unplayable sim for me. Even while it does have good content/vr/ffb/physics/graphics, so it's a big loss.
Not really true. It depends on where you are located but I think LFM is still the best bet to get easy MP racing in rF2. You aren't forced to download wierd mods and have enough info beforehand what you need to join a server. And the best thing about LFM is, that they use a mix of good mods (especialy tracks) and official content. And if you don't want to use mods at all there is a nice choice of races only using official recent content. If you aren't living in Timbuktu, that's the way to go.
 
That's exactly why I've always thought rfactor2 needed a dedicated team to the modding support. Such an ambitious title relying on modded content, it has always been beyond me to see this part of the game staying ignorezmd ans abandoned ; and so modders abandoned modding for this game and sticked to AC, and so we now have a bunch of obsolete content on the workshop and it's been hard to think of buying official content because it may have be men abandoned in few time later after several general updates, like all the previous official content.

Unfortunately the problem you've identified is just the logic consequence of this bad strategy. It's a pity because it seems rfactor2's physics and tire model seem to have been stabilized for a long time and it would be the right time to update all the existing mods without fearing everything will get broken in a few months. At least these old.mods played online...

Well, I stop my rant, it's always been ignored and, worse, badly received by rfactor2's players. I take the game as it is, just waiting a good AI update to race offline with the.most up to date content. It is what rfactor2 has become, the more ambitious project is over. If at least this narrower part of the project could work perfectly, I'd be happy after all these years. The game seems on the right way.
rF2 not having enough modding or general support? Are you for real? I don't know what you guys are smoking but reading statements like that make me completely shake my head and wonder if some of your guys claiming that have actually tried it or understood that you are recieving updates for a game for ten years now. But I guess you don't even know that there is a DEV guide well worth a book reading. All the info you need to build a car or track for rF2 is out there. The info that is there is overwhelming. When I started modding Battlefield 2 around 12 years ago I would have liked to have such a huge amount of well documented information from EA or DICE at that time with a forum to engage with the developers. All the knowledge that I gathered over the years was self studie and lot's of trial and error with a few nice individuals in the community sharing their knowledge. People just don't know how well they are supported by Kunos or S397, wich is a bit of a shame. And surprise, surprise: there is someone who needs to be payed to offer that support. So better think about that the next time you complain about DLC pricing or pick up the pitchfork when a mod isn't perfect.

Modding took more off in AC because it's simply easier to mod and offers a naturally bigger playerbase. Another huge advantage of AC is that it hasn't recieved official updates since a couple of years now. Times are easily forgotten, when AC updates broke the sounds and there are mods out there for AC that aren't usable anymore aswell. rF2 is a very complex, still evolving product, wich makes it much harder to mod. Long story, short answer. And the proof is in the pudding as they say. There aren't as many fantastic mods out there as for AC for example, but there are enough great examples that showcase that well executed modding projects are possible. I just need to drive a lap around Dundrod or Knockhill to know that there was enough support.
 
rF2 not having enough modding or general support? Are you for real? I don't know what you guys are smoking but reading statements like that make me completely shake my head and wonder if some of your guys claiming that have actually tried it or understood that you are recieving updates for a game for ten years now. But I guess you don't even know that there is a DEV guide well worth a book reading. All the info you need to build a car or track for rF2 is out there. The info that is there is overwhelming. When I started modding Battlefield 2 around 12 years ago I would have liked to have such a huge amount of well documented information from EA or DICE at that time with a forum to engage with the developers. All the knowledge that I gathered over the years was self studie and lot's of trial and error with a few nice individuals in the community sharing their knowledge. People just don't know how well they are supported by Kunos or S397, wich is a bit of a shame. And surprise, surprise: there is someone who needs to be payed to offer that support. So better think about that the next time you complain about DLC pricing or pick up the pitchfork when a mod isn't perfect.

Modding took more off in AC because it's simply easier to mod and offers a naturally bigger playerbase. Another huge advantage of AC is that it hasn't recieved official updates since a couple of years now. Times are easily forgotten, when AC updates broke the sounds and there are mods out there for AC that aren't usable anymore aswell. rF2 is a very complex, still evolving product, wich makes it much harder to mod. Long story, short answer. And the proof is in the pudding as they say. There aren't as many fantastic mods out there as for AC for example, but there are enough great examples that showcase that well executed modding projects are possible. I just need to drive a lap around Dundrod or Knockhill to know that there was enough support.
Lowering your tone and listening ot others will be much appreciated ; getting emotional just blind yourself. You absolutely missed my point and at the same time just gave the arguments which have always made it. I have already went into details many times before and can't see the need to do it again, it is to late for that, rfactor2 went in another direction, I'm ok with that, it's neither my game or my life. There just a part of the game, after all the investments you were absolutely right to mention, and that no one denies, which is partially lost because the investment, which I called "support", has not been enough. P1ssionate 1nd dedicated ldeveloppers do not replace good project management (in general both are even incompatible), that is were your confusion is imho.

Half the investment, half the job, less than half the result.

What you don't understand, and what the developpers of this new game announced lately, iPista Motorsport, does, is mod management, not tutorials, help and half backed workshop. Mod management is just the next step to be a successful full features moddable racing sim, it is just, to sum up, offiicial quality control ; it hasn't been done before, rfactor 2 had to do it, it didn't (probably the same with AMS2 in the next years). Proof is, rfactor2 is a failure face to a largely inferior, in terms of features (even with CM, sol...), title like AC. AC mod success just relies on its development termination and its lack of features.

You got it, it is indeed too bad mods become obsolete because the game has been evolving during years and because the workshop haven't been able to give any indication on the mods (the only thing you can do is filtering on dates and trying to figure out if the mod is ok reading more or less useful comments, which may be also obsolete depending on the date they have been published and the taste of the posters ; and youbhave tongo through all you subscribed mods). It is just a mess. And previous official content are not up to date, what a good example for modders and.the community (if a company don't care about parts of its own game, who cares?).

And you're right avout AC when many mods have been lost after a specific update which broke the car sounds. It happened once though. And stopping the development of the game may was a bad sim move but it was a a great business one. And we know the rest of the story, a hotlapping game taking the lead of the racing sim market, on which it's not really competent (don't get me wrong, I like AC).

Ambitious games need ambitious means to work. And rfactor2's ambition required ambitious true modding management, a whole dedicated team working with the modders, helping them to update their published content, taking out the obsolete content or modifying it if possible, to avoid losing content, which should have been a major selling point for the game (it is obviously not the case now); we touch the frontier between official content, licensing and mods there, an interestkng question that would have been rised if the job had been fully done on that aspect.

If everyring possible had been done to make modding successful in rfactor2, we would see the result, and it is obviously no there, especially considering the age of the game. You are blindly focusing on technical aspects support of mods, the exact same mistake this game has been making from the beginning. There's a real notion of managing mods and a community. I can understand ISI initial developers may have ignored that aspect because of a lack of vision about the online social network management (or because it wasn't just a priority), not just managing a community, but this has never been changed. Being the lack of means and money isn't my concern there, it just has never been considered in the project. I would say Reiza should be aware of that in their future official modding support, especially since its only for cars, which are the main target of updates (that's exactly why I don't even bother with installing modded cars in AMS2).

Again, I'm glad Pista Motorsport team has come to the exact same conclusion, which means rfactor2's mistakes are not useless at the end, for other developpers though.

What has been done, or not done in that case, will stay in that state, we have to keep passion aside to stop the frustration and the passionate non sense debates, and to analyze these experimental softwares to be able to enter a new era of solid experiences. Let's hope MSG and S397 are entering this era.

EDIT : it is strange to get such offended reaction especially after I've stated I didn't care anymore and was ok with rfactor2 how it is now. I just unsuscribed many mods and wait for a good ypdate to be able to race offline with cars I enjoy, being mods or paid content (Enduracers, Kartsim, old official GT3s and eformulas, F1 1975, Reiza pack...). The tracks 1re at worst just obsolete graphically, it may be annoying (under rainy conditions without water) but there's always something usable. I understand the lack of quality of life bothers many users, by chance I am ok with that. We accept many unacceptable things (in 2023) in rfactor2... is it he right rime to play rfactor2? We'll see, the oosts here are quiet confusing as everything and its contrary can be reas.
 
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Lowering your tone and listening ot others will be much appreciated ; getting emotional just blind yourself. You absolutely missed my point and at the same time just gave the arguments which have always made it. I have already went into details many times before and can't see the need to do it again, it is to late for that, rfactor2 went in another direction, I'm ok with that, it's neither my game or my life. There just a part of the game, after all the investments you were absolutely right to mention, and that no one denies, which is partially lost because the investment, which I called "support", has not been enough. P1ssionate 1nd dedicated ldeveloppers do not replace good project management (in general both are even incompatible), that is were your confusion is imho.

Half the investment, half the job, less than half the result.

What you don't understand, and what the developpers of this new game announced lately, iPista Motorsport, does, is mod management, not tutorials, help and half backed workshop. Mod management is just the next step to be a successful full features moddable racing sim, it is just, to sum up, offiicial quality control ; it hasn't been done before, rfactor 2 had to do it, it didn't (probably the same with AMS2 in the next years). Proof is, rfactor2 is a failure face to a largely inferior, in terms of features (even with CM, sol...), title like AC. AC mod success just relies on its development termination and its lack of features.

You got it, it is indeed too bad mods become obsolete because the game has been evolving during years and because the workshop haven't been able to give any indication on the mods (the only thing you can do is filtering on dates and trying to figure out if the mod is ok reading more or less useful comments, which may be also obsolete depending on the date they have been published and the taste of the posters ; and youbhave tongo through all you subscribed mods). It is just a mess. And previous official content are not up to date, what a good example for modders and.the community (if a company don't care about parts of its own game, who cares?).

And you're right avout AC when many mods have been lost after a specific update which broke the car sounds. It happened once though. And stopping the development of the game may was a bad sim move but it was a a great business one. And we know the rest of the story, a hotlapping game taking the lead of the racing sim market, on which it's not really competent (don't get me wrong, I like AC).

Ambitious games need ambitious means to work. And rfactor2's ambition required ambitious true modding management, a whole dedicated team working with the modders, helping them to update their published content, taking out the obsolete content or modifying it if possible, to avoid losing content, which should have been a major selling point for the game (it is obviously not the case now); we touch the frontier between official content, licensing and mods there, an interestkng question that would have been rised if the job had been fully done on that aspect.

If everyring possible had been done to make modding successful in rfactor2, we would see the result, and it is obviously no there, especially considering the age of the game. You are blindly focusing on technical aspects support of mods, the exact same mistake this game has been making from the beginning. There's a real notion of managing mods and a community. I can understand ISI initial developers may have ignored that aspect because of a lack of vision about the online social network management (or because it wasn't just a priority), not just managing a community, but this has never been changed. Being the lack of means and money isn't my concern there, it just has never been considered in the project. I would say Reiza should be aware of that in their future official modding support, especially since its only for cars, which are the main target of updates (that's exactly why I don't even bother with installing modded cars in AMS2).

Again, I'm glad Pista Motorsport team has come to the exact same conclusion, which means rfactor2's mistakes are not useless at the end, for other developpers though.

What has been done, or not done in that case, will stay in that state, we have to keep passion aside to stop the frustration and the passionate non sense debates, and to analyze these experimental softwares to be able to enter a new era of solid experiences. Let's hope MSG and S397 are entering this era.

EDIT : it is strange to get such offended reaction especially after I've stated I didn't care anymore and was ok with rfactor2 how it is now. I just unsuscribed many mods and wait for a good ypdate to be able to race offline with cars I enjoy, being mods or paid content (Enduracers, Kartsim, old official GT3s and eformulas, F1 1975, Reiza pack...). The tracks 1re at worst just obsolete graphically, it may be annoying (under rainy conditions without water) but there's always something usable. I understand the lack of quality of life bothers many users, by chance I am ok with that. We accept many unacceptable things (in 2023) in rfactor2... is it he right rime to play rfactor2? We'll see, the oosts here are quiet confusing as everything and its contrary can be reas.
The thing you wanted/asked for/expected wasnt really realistic.
Mods are inevitably going to become outdated over time in a game that is still in development. This cant be prevented and shouldnt, the game devs cant just go and update user made content, its not their content and cant even officially be used by them -> licensing.
The only thing a dedicated modding team within the devs could do would be to remove old content, but why would you remove something someone may or may not want to use?
Its the same issue with some old isi content, it cant be updated (depending on the individual content its either the lack of license, the fact its 3rd party and has no source file or both that doesnt allow it), which is why some of it is already in a seperate workshop list. They should also not be removed, the may be a bit terrible now, but still working and being used in some capacity by users.

This is pretty much true for all modding games ever, the prime time usually is when the game isnt updated anymore and mods dont break, as after a few years some mod makers are just not coming back for some stuff. A little comment to Pista, so far there has been a bit of talk here or there, unless there is going to be a playable game I wont believe anything, by now Im used to games being overpromised.
 
The thing you wanted/asked for/expected wasnt really realistic.
Mods are inevitably going to become outdated over time in a game that is still in development. This cant be prevented and shouldnt, the game devs cant just go and update user made content, its not their content and cant even officially be used by them -> licensing.
The only thing a dedicated modding team within the devs could do would be to remove old content, but why would you remove something someone may or may not want to use?
Its the same issue with some old isi content, it cant be updated (depending on the individual content its either the lack of license, the fact its 3rd party and has no source file or both that doesnt allow it), which is why some of it is already in a seperate workshop list. They should also not be removed, the may be a bit terrible now, but still working and being used in some capacity by users.

This is pretty much true for all modding games ever, the prime time usually is when the game isnt updated anymore and mods dont break, as after a few years some mod makers are just not coming back for some stuff. A little comment to Pista, so far there has been a bit of talk here or there, unless there is going to be a playable game I wont believe anything, by now Im used to games being overpromised.
This is realistic as the developer can decide at what point he want to be involved. It can be only the minimum service, workshop management with quality control, validating mods and delisting them if obsolete. This doesn't exists in other games as no other game has been in that specific situation (well maybe AMS2 in a few months). Hiding the fact that mods were badly implemented is fine, but the result is there, it is just a failure. As I had already stated and as you have repeated, the involvement of the developpers for sure brings a licensing issue, but it is already borderline to create a workshop, for mods using brands, which anyone can check before buying the game, meaning that these mods and brands are already real selling points for rfactor2. At the moment, from waht I personnally know, not any brand has jumped on ISI, S397 or MSG ; and MSG is not a small company at all ; it would make sense for brands (being cars and tracks) to take legal mesures ; Disney does it for much less than that. Is that legal to put mods on RD for AC and not in the dedicated official workshop for rfactor2? The frontier is thin but it is real. Developpers already help modders, they are already involved. Would an official validation for quality control would be really something different? Probably not, and we can't make assumptions on that without no company trying to go further in the modding scene.

As I said, if you think modding in rfactor2 is a success, go for it. If you think simracing can't go further and explore other possibilities to make better experiences, I'm fine with it and if developpers think the same and are proud with their current products, I just won't buy any of their future half backed games, I have enough enjoyment from the current ones. Imagination and innovation are keys to improvement, that's all I say. Some are ok with stagnation, I am not. rFactor2 is good in some of its aspects, but its second initial main appeal (with physics) just went bad. I just learned to accept that fact and this made the game more enjoyable for me.
 
Lowering your tone and listening ot others will be much appreciated ; getting emotional just blind yourself. You absolutely missed my point and at the same time just gave the arguments which have always made it. I have already went into details many times before and can't see the need to do it again, it is to late for that, rfactor2 went in another direction, I'm ok with that, it's neither my game or my life. There just a part of the game, after all the investments you were absolutely right to mention, and that no one denies, which is partially lost because the investment, which I called "support", has not been enough. P1ssionate 1nd dedicated ldeveloppers do not replace good project management (in general both are even incompatible), that is were your confusion is imho.

Half the investment, half the job, less than half the result.

What you don't understand, and what the developpers of this new game announced lately, iPista Motorsport, does, is mod management, not tutorials, help and half backed workshop. Mod management is just the next step to be a successful full features moddable racing sim, it is just, to sum up, offiicial quality control ; it hasn't been done before, rfactor 2 had to do it, it didn't (probably the same with AMS2 in the next years). Proof is, rfactor2 is a failure face to a largely inferior, in terms of features (even with CM, sol...), title like AC. AC mod success just relies on its development termination and its lack of features.

You got it, it is indeed too bad mods become obsolete because the game has been evolving during years and because the workshop haven't been able to give any indication on the mods (the only thing you can do is filtering on dates and trying to figure out if the mod is ok reading more or less useful comments, which may be also obsolete depending on the date they have been published and the taste of the posters ; and youbhave tongo through all you subscribed mods). It is just a mess. And previous official content are not up to date, what a good example for modders and.the community (if a company don't care about parts of its own game, who cares?).

And you're right avout AC when many mods have been lost after a specific update which broke the car sounds. It happened once though. And stopping the development of the game may was a bad sim move but it was a a great business one. And we know the rest of the story, a hotlapping game taking the lead of the racing sim market, on which it's not really competent (don't get me wrong, I like AC).

Ambitious games need ambitious means to work. And rfactor2's ambition required ambitious true modding management, a whole dedicated team working with the modders, helping them to update their published content, taking out the obsolete content or modifying it if possible, to avoid losing content, which should have been a major selling point for the game (it is obviously not the case now); we touch the frontier between official content, licensing and mods there, an interestkng question that would have been rised if the job had been fully done on that aspect.

If everyring possible had been done to make modding successful in rfactor2, we would see the result, and it is obviously no there, especially considering the age of the game. You are blindly focusing on technical aspects support of mods, the exact same mistake this game has been making from the beginning. There's a real notion of managing mods and a community. I can understand ISI initial developers may have ignored that aspect because of a lack of vision about the online social network management (or because it wasn't just a priority), not just managing a community, but this has never been changed. Being the lack of means and money isn't my concern there, it just has never been considered in the project. I would say Reiza should be aware of that in their future official modding support, especially since its only for cars, which are the main target of updates (that's exactly why I don't even bother with installing modded cars in AMS2).

Again, I'm glad Pista Motorsport team has come to the exact same conclusion, which means rfactor2's mistakes are not useless at the end, for other developpers though.

What has been done, or not done in that case, will stay in that state, we have to keep passion aside to stop the frustration and the passionate non sense debates, and to analyze these experimental softwares to be able to enter a new era of solid experiences. Let's hope MSG and S397 are entering this era.

EDIT : it is strange to get such offended reaction especially after I've stated I didn't care anymore and was ok with rfactor2 how it is now. I just unsuscribed many mods and wait for a good ypdate to be able to race offline with cars I enjoy, being mods or paid content (Enduracers, Kartsim, old official GT3s and eformulas, F1 1975, Reiza pack...). The tracks 1re at worst just obsolete graphically, it may be annoying (under rainy conditions without water) but there's always something usable. I understand the lack of quality of life bothers many users, by chance I am ok with that. We accept many unacceptable things (in 2023) in rfactor2... is it he right rime to play rfactor2? We'll see, the oosts here are quiet confusing as everything and its contrary can be reas.
Sorry if my post came across as a bit agressive but some discussions make it just too apparent that the simracing community is completely spoilt and doesn't know how comfy our hobby is. I hope you are aware that this hobby wouldn't be what it is if it wasn't for the great support of any developer out there, and this goes back to the early ISI days. It's no god given garantuee that developers will even allow modding and then I read comments like yours and it reads like a story from uthopia.

I don't think that it is acknowledged often enough but modmanagement and support with the wiki like in rF2 with the workshop integrated into the UI and still having the options to manualy install mods the good old way is not just on the very sharp end for sim racing but gaming in general. It doesn't get much better. Sure, there are a few areas that could be improved but that's whining on a very high level. Not even ArmA III has mod support that goes as far as installing mods ingame via the workshop. What else do you actually need? You go to content management ingame, enter the workshop enter a few keywords, use the filters or tags that were and you have a very good chance to find 3rd party content that actually looks good and works decently. You can even do that while you aren't on your PC. For some people it might sound like a burden but it's very nice to have a choice. You can't demand people to maintain their mods for over ten years with an evolving platform and the studio doing that work isn't possible due to lisencing and finacnial reasons.

As @sbabb allready mentioned, what you are asking for is out of this world. Who is going to pay the modmanagement staff? You can't have sustainable development like that, if your small team is busy enough with keeping official content up to date and creating new one. That even studios like Reiza struggle to support their DLCs for rF2 should give you an idea that content maintainance is a very time consuming task.
 
Just a heads up.

Anyone trying the new AI that also does AI tweak to *.json need to backup and reacquire it from Steam.

Possible old tweaks could break it. :x3:
Hey mate, how exactly can I reaquire the json file from Steam?
I've done some modifications ages ago, and forgot to backup the original.
 

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