Cars 1999 Nissan Primera BTCC 1.1

[arixant]

Had some free time, should be released tomorrow if i have the time to do the interior cards.

 

[Kyuubeey]

He is a nice guy, just in need for some ego bromide pills.
No matter what, the car is very believable, exactly what you would expect from a race FWD.
Don't coast, go on the gas as soon as possible and it makes wonders.

Being a modder wears down on your sanity a little. I don't have too much patience for some things anymore. I just offered my ideas and it's take it or leave it.

I know Abbo will leave it because he insists on doing trailing geo like this for years now, and it works well enough in a FWD car, so...

Truth be told because there's no power transfer via the rear, you can have the rear be 500% off and most of the userbase would not notice.

Right now I think the issue is that while curves are probably quite correct (If it's really 45deg~ then the gain should be severe, much more than I have in), the anti effect isn't as close as it could be, vanilla AC or not, and I have a decent suspicion that the RC loss in roll isn't close to IRL, resulting in a higher mid-corner RC than is desirable. Of course due to the nature of how RCs work in STA vs DWB, you can never really get it exactly the same because the principle is different, but that was my finding.

Making the lower arm the dominant arm in the E30, 930 and 964 resulted in severe understeer especially on power application due to the completely different RC loss in roll than when it's a bit closer to IRL, as the upper arm.

Oh well, not like it even matters since the car is not using load curves and must share tires with another different car and maintain handling between them, which is kind of impossible without at least load curves IMO.

 

[Avo77]

Truth be told because there's no power transfer via the rear, you can have the rear be 500% off and most of the userbase would not notice.

...and you may know something about it.
I agree with your analysis, mostly on the load sensitivity part.
Just saying that this mod is good enough even for me, so it can be perfectly fine for 99.99% of the users (yes, no ego pills tonight).

 

[Kyuubeey]

I personally like the car a lot, so I'd like to assist in this long-term issue. It's up to the team if they ignore it or use it.

I really do think the car just simply lifts the inside-rear too much at all times (Due to too high RC and maintaining the RC too high in roll; maybe) which means it oversteers a tad bit too much and simply cannot heat up the inside rear tire regardless of heat settings. The camber curve isn't nearly as important IMO and it's probably okay to even allow a good 10 - 20% error there if it means the rest is better. Even antisquat just doesn't matter that much because STA usually is "close enough" even with EX=0.

I say this because it seems the team is focusing on handling excessive oversteer via minimizing camber movement and have concluded that it's due to excessive suspension movement, but I believe the main issue is RC movement and RC height. There is a good chance the slightly too high camber change from the slightly too high suspension movement is inconsequential. It was in all my STA and TA cars. The RC change however was extremely severe.

I sent one more version to Ben, perhaps the best that I personally can make with the info given. It's up to the team now if they care.

 

[Leonardo Ratafiá]

it's definitely not the greatest feeling to drive this car now. Tried with tyre warmers on Mugello 2nd corner on the left and lost it. FFB also isn't great, it rumbles a lot on the straight (CSL Elite Wheel)
will wait to test the BMW, hopefully it drives better.

also numbers on LCD display are laggy as hell

 

[Kyuubeey]

I have some concerns too about the FFB personally. It's quite violent even on my 50% gain G27; will the DD users get injured?

It should be so; the car has A LOT of power and tire, very aggressive diff, lots of scrub radius, lots of caster. It's probably a real handful IRL under power.

That being said the default perhaps should be a little lower, lest DD wheel users rip off their thumbs on the first exit. I really could see it suddenly snapping towards lock with 10Nm+ of torque which could be...problematic.

Just my speculation of course, I don't know how the DD wheel users find it.

 

[Dave_6]

I have a DD and it's not that bad. I don't run crazy forces either, just what I feel should be life like to whichever car I'm driving. I'd imagine that these cars probably had some pretty wild torque steer while on power and I can definitely feel that. If they did have power steering, I could probably stand to turn down the car FFB from 100 down to 90 or less as it does seem to be kinda high for the lack of down force.

 

[Kyuubeey]

By the way;

STEER_ASSIST=0

That should be 1.

Lol.

It's a gamma, not a powersteering setting...

EDIT: Also, if it does nothing, it's probably because the engine sets it to 1 regardless. 0 should be either no FFB, or ALL of the FFB, so yeah...

Don't use it as powersteering, basically.

 

[Patrik Marek]

also numbers on LCD display are laggy as hell

That's as designed. Watching lot of onboards, those displays refresh rate wasn't brisk, so we tried to emulate that by making a slower refresh rate

this one is a good example where you can see how slow it is , towards the end

 

[iwn]

Thank you for the update and effort. I'll go back to earlier version though. The car is now completely unpredictable and throwing itself around how it pleases. Maybe too much coasting, I don't know. Not a single clean lap. Or is it meant to be driven without CSP? That I haven't yet tested. Uncontrollability is not realism.

 

[brad_co]

I am unable to get the new car to open in the game. I have uninstalled the previous version and installed as per instructions. The load screen starts - after selecting the car and the track then hit START button, but then after it seems to load it will revert back to the setup page without actually entering the selected track/game.

Am I missing something as to how to FULLY delete/uninstall previous versions? I have deleted the files pm3dm_nissan_primera_btcc and then searched my pc for other files with names like nissan and/or primera. Found a few more files and deleted them. But after copying the new games files into content>cars folder the above mentioned issues arise.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[felan]

FFB feels fine for me using a CSL Elite 1.1...but what I've noticed if you have some old entries from previous version of the Primera in the FFBClip-config file you should delete those lines.
Maybe it's just a placebo for me

 

[Patrik Marek]

hey everyone , I think I figured out what the issue is for some people when it crashes in vanilla AC

they might need to install this I think! it's used on side markers/reverse lights

Misc - PerPixelMultiMap with Emissive map

Stereo submitted a new resource: PerPixelMultiMap with Emissive map - allows an extra texture in PerPixelMultiMap that modifies emissive brightness. Adds a 5th slot, txEmissive, to ksPerPixelMultiMap, that's multiplied by the ksEmissive setting. Lets you go from this to this: (artist's...

www.racedepartment.com

 

[spanillo]

I can slow it down a bit. It feels bit fast, but when watching on board videos, these things were quick to shift

it would be great to improve animation, I have to say that driving this car in version 1.0 made me have a lot of fun, the way he jumped the curbs, the strong response to the FFB, even if when you came out of a curve and you gave gas it seemed that the response behind the wheel had some problems (it lightened too much), now this 1.1 I have to test it well, anyway congratulations

 

[NWRAP]

Might be time go back and revist all the skins I did when this was first released.

@Patrik Marek Is there an updated template?

 

[Giuseppe Abagnale]

You don't have to take me seriously or use any of my suggestions.

The text is for Giuseppe who I already hold high respect for, I'm sure he understands. My suggestion is just to stop thinking about it in the form of physical pivots and start considering the virtual ones, as long as we are chained to two sets of arms.

I will go on the record saying that there's also a decent chance I'm just missing something, but the relationship of the sweep angle and arm angle is clear and curves should be able to be established, so it's a case of creating them. If you have curves and the static 2D RC, I can do it for you as proof of concept.

I understand what you say, I would have no problem in matching real curves.
What I tried to explain is that if I used correct geometry this would happen:
- bug in vanilla AC makes a wrong calculation of anti-raise effect, increasing it way too much (probably it considers all the force pointing to wheel center instead than contact patch but I can't say for sure...)
- So to get the right raise I should lower all the arm down
- That would lower RC too
- So I'd had to use stiff rear ARB (as it is not stiff enough now )
- And this would cause too much instability on trail braking
- And at the end, all of this, just to have a +5% fidelity of camber curve on a wheel that barely moves 30 or 40 mm

It's not worth a while now.
I have a proper trailing geometry yet ready for when/if we'll use CSP

 

[Kyuubeey]

Just look at what I gave Ben. We can make trailing arms pretty reasonably, and even get the curves more or less right. Although for such a big sweep angle, the error is probably larger.

 

[Avo77]

It's not worth a while now.
I have a proper trailing geometry yet ready for when/if we'll use CSP

Do it now, please.
People not using CM, CSP and SOL in AC don't deserve your mods

 

[brad_co]

hey everyone , I think I figured out what the issue is for some people when it crashes in vanilla AC

they might need to install this I think! it's used on side markers/reverse lights

Misc - PerPixelMultiMap with Emissive map

Stereo submitted a new resource: PerPixelMultiMap with Emissive map - allows an extra texture in PerPixelMultiMap that modifies emissive brightness. Adds a 5th slot, txEmissive, to ksPerPixelMultiMap, that's multiplied by the ksEmissive setting. Lets you go from this to this: (artist's...

www.racedepartment.com

This seems to have done the trick. Loads fine now, thanks.

 

[umby4u]

I think that default setup is different than prev version, now the car is more unstable during fast corner. Rear wheels spin off very easily. You can suggest somthing to change in setup?