Balance Of Performance

Deleted member 387850 · Dec 21, 2017

I notice in the release notes for the latest R3E update the BOP has been adjusted for the Alpina B6 GT3 and the Leaderboard entries for this car wiped. Currently the top of the Leaderboards seem to be dominated by the new Merc and Corvette, but there were quite a few entries for the B6 until the update.

I was just wondering why the new cars seem to be so dominant? Is it simply because they are new and as a result people are putting in a lot of laps with them? I assume the BOP is done in such a way that theoretically the oldest car in the GT3 pack should be capable of lapping as quickly as the newest car?

Personally I see quite a bit of variation in lap time between cars, but I'm aware that some cars are better suited to some tracks and it can take some time to adapt your driving style to the different characteristics of each car. I guess the default setup for some cars might suit some tracks better than others as well?

natedogg1867 · Dec 22, 2017

suspectmonkey said:
I was just wondering why the new cars seem to be so dominant? Is it simply because they are new and as a result people are putting in a lot of laps with them?

This is one of the reasons for it. Most people started using the new GT3's immediately and would put up lap times in those.

I reckon an extremely small % of people actually tried out every single other GT3 car to see which car they were truly fastest in.

1 month for that is a very short amount of time to test 18 cars. 19 now with the Porsche.

Besides that, some cars excel at certain tracks. The Camaro for instance is awful at every track with corners... but it slays at Monza.

suspectmonkey said:
I assume the BOP is done in such a way that theoretically the oldest car in the GT3 pack should be capable of lapping as quickly as the newest car?

BoP is a very complex thing. Each car has it's own characteristics, and things it does well in. Not to mention the BoP needs to work on all ~40 tracks. Having exact parity where every single car can do the exact same laptime wouldnt be any fun, as that would remove a lot of their variation. Not to mention that would likely be an impossibility.

I believe another round of BoP will be done to some of the cars now that they have all been released.

It's true that some cars are simply faster overall than others.

Case_ · Dec 22, 2017

natedogg1867 said:
I believe another round of BoP will be done to some of the cars now that they have all been released.

Yeah, it was mentioned there will be more BoP done based on the data acquired after the release.

UMC 22 · Dec 22, 2017

It'll resolve itself in time I think. It's hard to get BoP perfect first time as the cars all have their own characteristics... getting them level without destroying their uniqueness is hard work. Plus we as drivers all have our own styles and preferences, so depending on who's driving a car may seem faster/slower.

Kenny Paton · Dec 22, 2017

@suspectmonkey
After having watched the league where two unfancied cars ended up in the top three places S3 appear to have got it more or less right.

Deleted member 387850 · Dec 22, 2017

Thanks for the replies, it's interesting to get your thoughts! BoP is a concept quite new to me and it's fascinating how they strike that balance (both IRL and the sim world). I ended up buying the new AMG GT3 and took it for a quick spin at Nurburgring. Sure enough I'm still faster with the B6 and the 650S, two cars I feel I know fairly well now, as I just haven't got my head around the strengths and weakness of the AMG yet. Reminds me of something Aris said on the AC "talk and drive" the other night about the best thing you can do is to pick something and stick with it to build that muscle memory rather than chopping and changing.

Serj · Dec 24, 2017

My post addressed to physics developers. It concerns about BoP of some cars class of GTR3. Simply my opinion...where did you find p4-5 competizione at this class in real life? This exclusive track car with some close BoP and characterisitcs of GT2 class, but not even GT3, neither. It was pretty good car earlier GTRX, but now..... its useless.... the slowest car in a row, ti cant be true. It should powered up of course if your vision of it in class GTR3.
I simply dotn understand why this car transform from GTRX to GTR3, wheres better and real would be to put it into class GT2, because the GTR3 class already overloeded with manu many many cars. IMO.

UMC 22 · Dec 24, 2017

The P4/5 Competizione was in an experimental class, so wasn't GT-anything. To perfectly represent it in R3E it would need to be in a category all of it's own with nothing but itself to race against. Sure there are other cars that have their own class but I don't think this car is interesting or iconic enough to warrant that kind of attention. (Personal opinion I know.) So they stuck it in with a nice big class with plenty of opponents, which is fine with me... the GT3 class is certainly not overloaded as we're still missing some big names. The more they add the better, for me.

That said, S3 mentioned back in `15 that there would be a GT2 version once they had updated the GT2 physics. Given it's been almost three years since then, it seems that won't be happening.

Serj · Dec 24, 2017

Ross Garland said:
the GT3 class is certainly not overloaded as we're still missing some big names.

Say it to GTR1 and GT2, wheres 2 cars and 4 cars only))) yeah GTR-3 not overloaded with three ADACs in a row)))

UMC 22 · Dec 25, 2017

Serj said:
Say it to GTR1 and GT2, wheres 2 cars and 4 cars only))) yeah GTR-3 not overloaded with three ADACs in a row)))

I didn't say that we shouldn't get more GTR 1 & 2, I said that GTR 3 isn't overloaded because it isn't. There are lots of GTR 3s in real life and so there are in this sim too. I personally feel that GTR 3's provide much better online racing than the faster classes so I am more than happy to see more being added. Where are the Ferraris and Lambos? The Astons? The Maseratis? The Lotuses? The Jags? I'd rather see all of those before more GTR 1 or 2, especially since neither of those classes is on the latest physics. I don't really think the ADAC classes count because they are just liveries for the existing GTR 3 cars.

Serj · Dec 25, 2017

Ross Garland said:
I don't really think the ADAC classes count because they are just liveries for the existing GTR 3 cars.

Yes. sure its all gtr3 cars allround. Thats why I want to seening more autobrands in GT2 and GT1.

Kenny Paton · Dec 25, 2017

GT3's are ATM the most popular IRL as well as virtual.
With the DTM license finished and WTCC gone, I like to think that S3 are still focused on a series rather than a mish mash of cars. If they were able to snag a TCR deal and get the cars into the game then it would be IMO the most relevant racing sim around.

Case_ · Dec 26, 2017

I vaguely remember some rumours the GT1 And GT2 classes could get some restructuring along with a physics update.

Kenny Paton · Dec 26, 2017

Martin Fiala said:
I vaguely remember some rumours the GT1 And GT2 classes could get some restructuring along with a physics update.

Yes that was said in a stream from a long time ago, some other things must have got in the way.

UMC 22 · Dec 26, 2017

Perhaps they want to get more licenses for GT1/2 cars before bothering to overhaul their physics?

Kenny Paton · Dec 26, 2017

Ross Garland said:
Perhaps they want to get more licenses for GT1/2 cars before bothering to overhaul their physics?

The same stream mentioned removing the GTR X class and possibly moving them into 1 or 2, add in some extra car licences and it would be another good series to have.

PresidentSmug · Jan 2, 2018

I've tested 8 GT3s around Spa, 7 new 1 old and i think the BoP is decent among them, Z4 being the slowest but still only a sec off. Times range from 2:15.5xx to 2:16.5xx, i also feel like the times in the slower cars will be improved by more capable hands as im not very experienced with some. I also like how the trend is the faster cars have worse fuel economy while the slightly slower cars have better.

The only 2 of concern i have are the Porsche 911 because it has everything, i believe the pace and best fuel economy and the Z06 which is too fast in the straights. The latest RaceRoom competition is a prime example of it being OP. All top 30 times bar one (mine

) are Z06s at the time of writing now.

http://game.raceroom.com/competitions/766/leaderboard

ionONE1 · Jan 7, 2018

How can this happen, atleast 1 second faster than the next car?! Somehow nobody noticed this during beta testing, curious what real world data suggest this for both alpina and corvette.

Majuh · Jan 7, 2018

ionONE1 said:
How can this happen, atleast 1 second faster than the next car?! Somehow nobody noticed this during beta testing, curious what real world data suggest this for both alpina and corvette.

It's not 1 second faster, the point is that everybody switches to the fastest car so you don't really see what's possible in the other cars.

UMC 22 · Jan 7, 2018

The above comment is based on one person's experience, who himself said that the "slower" cars would likely be faster if someone more experienced with them were driving. Even the leaderboards are not particularly surprising because people will of course be using the new cars rather than the old ones, so obviously most of the current best times will be in those cars.

That's why BoP is so difficult... a car's pace can depend very heavily on who is driving.