Can a mod ever be better than the actual dev car?

[apex11]

I have found a few mods that IMO are a better drive than the in game cars..... Anyone else agree on this?
Case in point for me is the Audi LMS 2016.... the game car is good, but the mod car on RD is sublime..
Its the feel it gives on and over the limit. modders were/are AGU i think....wonderful car..

 

[Stereo]

I think it can because modders don't have the same time constraints but for the most part won't be.

 

[ouvert]

I guess depends on data they manage to get .. I remember Formula 3.5 was at that time better feeling/driving openwheeler than anything that was in game.
But than feeling and realism is another thing .. take Flat6 mod .. most people liked it but it has nothing to do with Prosche Cup car

 

[Kenny Paton]

As Devs move on and modders grow more knowledgeable and comfortable with the software then judging by the results in older games like Race07 and GTR2 etc then yes.

 

[Peter Kerényi]

Yes and no.

The developers have to deal with licenses and have to use data provided by the manufacturer. For a manufacturer, having a car represented in the game is advertisement, so in the case of simulators, I can see a possibility that they give pretty accurate data, but tweak a little bit here and there to represent their car in a more positive light. Another possibility is what happened with the SF70H, when they couldn't provide exact data due to the car racing IRL, so they gave intervals and the developers had to decide what numbers to use within those intervals. So from a logical point of view, I can not see a reason why a car would handle worse than in real life. Nobody would win from that. Unless it happens with all cars, in which case something is simulated wrongly (tires, general grip, etc.), or the baseline setup is just bad.

In the case of mods, there are a couple of modders who have experience with the car they are developing IRL, can measure stuff IRL, and overall can give a more detailed, and personal interpretation of the car. The number of such mods can be probably counted on one hand and the development takes a very long time, as they don't have deadlines as the developers do. In the case of comparing a car from Kunos and the same car from a modder, I generally trust Kunos more. I have driven a few mod cars that handled extremely well, to a point that it seemed very unrealistic (e.g. DeLorean having as much grip in the corners as the Tatuus FA. It might feel good and drive well but it's pure nonsense).

In the case of the car you gave as an example, it came out before Kunos released theirs. I didn't use it, only tried it, because the graphics weren't good enough for me. Unfortunately, even for myself often, I have very high graphical standards for mods, and I can't do anything about it. BUT even if the car would look nice, I would use the one from Kunos, as that car is balanced with other GT3s in the game. If you have a problem with the Kunos R8 LMS 2016, and no other GT3s, I suggest you look at the settings. IIRC that car has a quite understeery and counter-intuitive base setup, especially mid-corner and exit. If you feel the brakes want to kill you reduce the ABS number, it's pretty high default. Furthermore, I would check out the car in other games, e.g. R3E (free test drive)(or iRacing, but it's very expensive just for that).

However, everybody should sim race for fun. If you enjoy that car, nobody's opinion should stop you from enjoying it

 

[AccAkut]

Absolutely, as more time can be spend on a single car, and possibly more resources. In theory you could plug all sort of suspension curves and test bench data into your tool of choice and calculate "perfect" values for the sim's script language. Imo its rather this whats sets off "professional F1 level simulators" from the consumer stuff, the underlying structure is probably not much different.

But in all software there is also a lot of leeway and "grown knowledge" of the main coder (in ACs case Aris) which means that he may know better than we can how to get to a result if he has to take shortcuts, like translating convoluted suspension system into something AC can reliably work with.

In general I would trust the main Dev more, just based on experience and availability of data, as the normal modder just won't get as much. When doing the Porsche DLCs Kunos was in contact with Porsche engineers, could probably phone in whenever there was a question, and Hans Müller sent back excel files full of numbers, while a modder may be lucky to get some data, if it is even available (like I have contact with team KRB, the builders of the real KRB Lotus and the Audi S1 wingmonster, but they simply don't have the same amount of data available. For example I got the gearing data, but for the differentials they could tell me the ramp angles and preloads, but not what exact locking values this would result in, as they simply don't know)

Model wise its the same, if you don't have to worry about time, tris limits and file sizes you could model every bold and retainer.

 

[Ghoults]

With modders their only limitation is their skill. With developers their limitation is time. Also not all official content is same quality. Just like mods some is better than others.

 

[dud]

I don't think anybody can drive modern street Porsches (c2s, turbo s, 718) in AC and in Atlanta and think that the suspension came out right.

I think it is likely that Porsche contributed in a too restricting manner, trying to put "physically correct" values for every single item, but as a sum it just doesn't work right. With PASM, PDCC, and rear axle steering thrown in there is something wrong there. The 991.1 GT3RS used to be the worst, now it is kinda OK in the current version of AC. But the others still have body movement that the real cars just don't. Especially low-frequency oscillations in continued S-bends.

 

[Terry Rock]

I have found a few mods that IMO are a better drive than the in game cars..... Anyone else agree on this?
Case in point for me is the Audi LMS 2016.... the game car is good, but the mod car on RD is sublime..
Its the feel it gives on and over the limit. modders were/are AGU i think....wonderful car..

This has already been proven.
Much as I like most of KS' official cars, one lap with RSS' FH2018 and this question is answered.
It is the 'go-to' Formula car in simracing.

 

[Peter Kerényi]

This has already been proven.
Much as I like some of KS' official cars, one lap with RSS' FH2018 and this question is answered.
It is the 'go-to' Formula car in simracing.

I love the RSS FH2018, but I don't see how it should be much better than the KS SF70H?

 

[natedogg1867]

Isnt AGU only known for ripped mods?

Especially the guy that uploaded that mod here, "Firefighter." He was banned from the Kunos forum when modding was still allowed there for lying about a stolen/ripped mod he was trying to pass off as his own.

Im not sure that AGU is the hill you want to die on when trying to make this argument

 

[AccAkut]

Isnt AGU only known for ripped mods?

Especially the guy that uploaded that mod here, "Firefighter." He was banned from the Kunos forum when modding was still allowed there for lying about a stolen/ripped mod he was trying to pass off as his own.

Im not sure that AGU is the hill you want to die on when trying to make this argument

yes, on here, in the real world AGU actually managed to snag in some customer deals with their methods... the earliest car Firefighter posted on his own, before AGU was formed, was an enhanced Porsche 997 rip from Need For Speed. I'm don't remember the sequence but the M6 and the R8 were also ripped to a degree, tho I remember some sort of "retroactive permission" for the R8 I think, as it was a mod car that got bought by RF2 or PC and the original maker gave the ok for AC use...(tho correct me if I'm wrong)

last public AGU activity was almost a year ago so I guess those involved either grew up or got silenced otherwise

 

[Gevatter]

AGU faced a huge backlash when it came out that their M6 model had "dubious" origins. Lots of people donated to them because they thought their mods were scratch made, or at the very least made with legitimately obtained models.

I never heard from them again after that.

 

[AccAkut]

AGU faced a huge backlash when it came out that their M6 model had "dubious" origins. Lots of people donated to them because they thought their mods were scratch made, or at the very least made with legitimately obtained models.

I never heard from them again after that.

The M6 landed them a commercial deal, it was to be used on some promotion thing. Tho I don't know if that happened in the end as I heard about it before the dubious origins came out.

 

[dud]

Oh, almost forgot.

Anybody here thinks that the Porsche 918 in the default setup can possibly as unstable as the AC car under braking from moderate-high speeds? I didn't drive a real one, however that model is way too Newton-ish to be realistic. I realize it is a heavy car that plows over the tires, however that doesn't explain instability.

Yes, mods can easily be better than originals.

 

[Amanda]

Here's my take on MODs:

- Most mods for older games, like rFactor 1, Race07, GTR2, etc, are bad. They feel really off, if you compare to e.g. official rFactor 2, Assetto Corsa, or RaceRoom cars. Either that, or they look/sound horrible;
- Some mods are really good, but sadly these are just a handful - specially on sims like rFactor 2 where it is quite hard to mod because you need too much data. Still, sometimes we hit the gold mine, like when real racing teams develop mods such as the GP3 and the Palatov D4 for rFactor 2;
- Sometimes mods that are praised can be quite controversial, like the EnduRacers mod for rFactor 2;
- The overwhelming majority of OFFICIAL cars, no matter the sim, are miles away (way better than) the overwhelming majority of mods, because -for quite a lot of the cars- they work together with the cars manufacturers, they have way more data which moders simply cannot get, and there's also the money insentive.

Because of this, I always lean on trusting official cars for 99.999% of the content out there. And quite frankly I'm always extremely skeptical when it comes to MODs, unless I can prove they're actually accure - like this 458 from Apex Modding.

PS: The 458 is actually quite accurate. However, other cars from the same mod are completely broken, which is another reason not to blindly trust mods because even between the same mod some cars can be accurate and other drive like @$$.

Cheers.

 

[dud]

Because of this, I always lean on trusting official cars for 99.999% of the content out there. And quite frankly I'm always extremely skeptical when it comes to MODs, unless I can prove they're actually accure - like this 458 from Apex Modding.

PS: The 458 is actually quite accurate. However, other cars from the same mod are completely broken, which is another reason not to blindly trust mods because even between the same mod some cars can be accurate and other drive like @$$.

Kuno's own 458 was part of the trigger I finally got into car sims. I tried the Assetto Corsa official 458 very shortly after I drove a F430. The similarity was staggering. Same for the Gallardo.

That makes me feel so odd about the way that Kuno's street Porsche models drive. Somebody goofed here, big time. Maybe it is just the PASM, PDCC, rear axle steering, but then the 718 is screwed up the same way.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Typically original content should be better but as always there are exceptions.
Take RSS GT1 cars for instance
https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/rss-gt1-championship.140452/
I'd say for 3d modeling, graphics, sound, and physics they match or surpass Kunos standards.

 

[Peter Kerényi]

Typically original content should be better but as always there are exceptions.
Take RSS GT1 cars for instance
https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/rss-gt1-championship.140452/
I'd say for 3d modeling, graphics, sound, and physics they match or surpass Kunos standards.

To be fair, they surpass Kunos standards in price as well. So it should be expected.

 

[apex11]

Isnt AGU only known for ripped mods?

Especially the guy that uploaded that mod here, "Firefighter." He was banned from the Kunos forum when modding was still allowed there for lying about a stolen/ripped mod he was trying to pass off as his own.

Im not sure that AGU is the hill you want to die on when trying to make this argument

Well i got the mod from this site.
Wasn't there a few cars that Kunos used as DLC that modders made originally?