Can anything be done to improve the AI?

[John Kerry]

Hi all. I have had rf2 for about a year now and have had little joy playing it. I play offline and hence the AI has to be decent for me to enjoy the racing and unfortunately I have not found this to be the case and hence I have not played it alot.

Is there any suggestions or advice I would appreciate it. Thank you.

 

[davehenrie]

There is one guy working on just a few tracks to try and improve the offline racing. But in reality, S397 is eventually gonna have to rework many areas of offline play. They are so focused on esports and online that I don't expect much progress for a long time.

 

[John Kerry]

I find this very disappointing.

 

[MarcG]

Hi all. I have had rf2 for about a year now and have had little joy playing it. I play offline and hence the AI has to be decent for me to enjoy the racing and unfortunately I have not found this to be the case and hence I have not played it alot.

Is there any suggestions or advice I would appreciate it. Thank you.

What are your issues exactly? As much detail as possible please.
Are you using community made mods/tracks or official? (See the other AI thread for my response to this area)

There are ways to make it better, but without knowing exactly what you want from it it's hard to suggest where to go, thanks.

 

[Squared Circle]

As stated somewhere else, AI works for me. Tried only LeMans & Sebring so far running GTRs. The question is: What are the issues in your combo?

 

[John Kerry]

What are your issues exactly? As much detail as possible please.
Are you using community made mods/tracks or official? (See the other AI thread for my response to this area)

There are ways to make it better, but without knowing exactly what you want from it it's hard to suggest where to go, thanks.

Thanks MarcG for the response. I expect to have issues with mod cars and tracks (which I do excessively) so I tried to drive only base cars and tracks and it can be a bit better but the problems are:
* The AI is eratic. I might overtake a car and open a 3 sec gap without me making any considerable mistakes the AI will catch me and overtake in 1 lap.

*The AI is unrealistic. They can make overtaking moves which are impossible for me or I think anyone. Also the blocking is excessive to the point I need to push them out of the way, again it's unrealistic.

*The AI with each other is also crazy and I could loose half the AI in a race due their crashing, spinning off etc.

I have had these issues with these car/track combinations to name a few:
Honda Civic BTCC at ' Botniaring '
Nissan GT1's at Zandvoot
One of the Tatuus at Vintage Monaco ( at this race while I was leading on the last lap at the last corner hairpin the AI came for at about 2 seconds behind and rammed me from behind spinning me out.)

Note that I have refused to buy any DLC car/tracks for this reason and will not be conviced to do so as I have read and seen others having the same issues with the racing offline. I remember watching a Youtube video of someone's review of the then new GT3 dlc at Sebring and he said the cars are great and the track is great but there is no joy racing the AI (

), right at the end of the video.

So thanks again and any help or suggestions will be appreciated.

 

[MarcG]

Thanks MarcG for the response. I expect to have issues with mod cars and tracks (which I do excessively) so I tried to drive only base cars and tracks and it can be a bit better but the problems are:
* The AI is eratic. I might overtake a car and open a 3 sec gap without me making any considerable mistakes the AI will catch me and overtake in 1 lap.

*The AI is unrealistic. They can make overtaking moves which are impossible for me or I think anyone. Also the blocking is excessive to the point I need to push them out of the way, again it's unrealistic.

*The AI with each other is also crazy and I could loose half the AI in a race due their crashing, spinning off etc.

I have had these issues with these car/track combinations to name a few:
Honda Civic BTCC at ' Botniaring '
Nissan GT1's at Zandvoot
One of the Tatuus at Vintage Monaco ( at this race while I was leading on the last lap at the last corner hairpin the AI came for at about 2 seconds behind and rammed me from behind spinning me out.)

Note that I have refused to buy any DLC car/tracks for this reason and will not be conviced to do so as I have read and seen others having the same issues with the racing offline. I remember watching a Youtube video of someone's review of the then new GT3 dlc at Sebring and he said the cars are great and the track is great but there is no joy racing the AI (

), right at the end of the video.

So thanks again and any help or suggestions will be appreciated.

Ok firstly before you do anything else do this; go to your Playerdata folder and backup your Player.json (either move or rename to player.bak), then load the game and it will create a fresh player.json file.
Once you've done that race against the AI again, see if there's any difference, if there is and they're better could you please send me both your backup and fresh files?

As for your points;

- AI is erratic: Can't say I've noticed that behaviour myself, would need to see some video evidence.

- AI overtaking moves: Again hard to judge without video evidence, try lowering the Aggression setting to see if that "helps"

- AI with each other: Yeah that sounds like a mod/track issue, very rare that I've seen AI drop out that much during a race.

- AI at Sebring: I've had many many races at this track with the GT3 amongst others, never experienced any major issues at all and had some fantastic battles with the AI. Without knowing the guys settings in the video it could be his own fault not that of the game.

You may notice a trend to my points above "video evidence", if the player.json suggestion doesn't work (please try that first) then if possible take some video of the issues so it can be judged accordingly.
Over the years I've seen so many people claim to have AI problems and that they suck, only for them to never bring forward actual evidence or when they do it's clearly their driving style! It has to be viewed like a Race Steward at a real race meeting, whilst written text can point to some issues a video showing the AI is above all the best thing to see. I'm not saying you're at fault by the way (there may well be an issue), just that it's hard to say either way without seeing it for myself, especially as the issues you've stated above could be for any number of reasons.

I've not raced those cars on those tracks you've listed so cant comment on them specifically at this time.

Should the player.json change not work and you can't post a video, please post the exact AI settings you're using in game a long with exact weather conditions and RealRoad settings - which reminds me, the AI like rubber on the track just like us humans so on a Green track they may have a few moments just like we would!

Thanks

 

[Nano10]

John.

Some mods are frustrating (like F1 1979) but with official cars and tracks RF2 has together with ACC the best AI.

You just have to practice a few laps, compare your times with the AI, and then you already know if you have a level of 90%, 100% etc.

In addition you can set the tire wear, the progression of the track and the aggression of the AI, you have 4 slots to change the weather, pit stops, therefore within the race you will have different behaviors and performances.

In summary RF2 and ACC have the best AI, following these tips you will enjoy this game much more.

 

[John Kerry]

Ok firstly before you do anything else do this; go to your Playerdata folder and backup your Player.json (either move or rename to player.bak), then load the game and it will create a fresh player.json file.
Once you've done that race against the AI again, see if there's any difference, if there is and they're better could you please send me both your backup and fresh files?

As for your points;

- AI is erratic: Can't say I've noticed that behaviour myself, would need to see some video evidence.

- AI overtaking moves: Again hard to judge without video evidence, try lowering the Aggression setting to see if that "helps"

- AI with each other: Yeah that sounds like a mod/track issue, very rare that I've seen AI drop out that much during a race.

- AI at Sebring: I've had many many races at this track with the GT3 amongst others, never experienced any major issues at all and had some fantastic battles with the AI. Without knowing the guys settings in the video it could be his own fault not that of the game.

You may notice a trend to my points above "video evidence", if the player.json suggestion doesn't work (please try that first) then if possible take some video of the issues so it can be judged accordingly.
Over the years I've seen so many people claim to have AI problems and that they suck, only for them to never bring forward actual evidence or when they do it's clearly their driving style! It has to be viewed like a Race Steward at a real race meeting, whilst written text can point to some issues a video showing the AI is above all the best thing to see. I'm not saying you're at fault by the way (there may well be an issue), just that it's hard to say either way without seeing it for myself, especially as the issues you've stated above could be for any number of reasons.

I've not raced those cars on those tracks you've listed so cant comment on them specifically at this time.

Should the player.json change not work and you can't post a video, please post the exact AI settings you're using in game a long with exact weather conditions and RealRoad settings - which reminds me, the AI like rubber on the track just like us humans so on a Green track they may have a few moments just like we would!

Thanks

Thanks Marc for the suggestion I will try it and get back to you.

I am glad the racing is good for you. The examples I gave you were all base game content from when I bought it.

I have experience playing several other games and know what to expect from the AI and how to choose a difficulty level. Most of my races where I had problems where despite my being the fastest car on the track.

Anyway thanks again and I will get back to you.

 

[John Kerry]

John.

Some mods are frustrating (like F1 1979) but with official cars and tracks RF2 has together with ACC the best AI.

You just have to practice a few laps, compare your times with the AI, and then you already know if you have a level of 90%, 100% etc.

In addition you can set the tire wear, the progression of the track and the aggression of the AI, you have 4 slots to change the weather, pit stops, therefore within the race you will have different behaviors and performances.

In summary RF2 and ACC have the best AI, following these tips you will enjoy this game much more.

I am glad that the AI is working for you but from my experience and many others it needs to be improved. MarcG said in another forum;

"One day (I live in hope!) S397 will fix the issues most dominant in the AI and it will become the King again, there's 4 Major areas I consider that need to be fixed and it will be brilliant with anything else after that a bonus....believe me they are aware of those issues, it's just a matter of priority as to when they get fixed....unfortunately that priority has never been "high" so no idea when they'll get sorted." (7/7/2020).

 

[Salvatore Sirignano]

John.

Some mods are frustrating (like F1 1979) but with official cars and tracks RF2 has together with ACC the best AI.

You just have to practice a few laps, compare your times with the AI, and then you already know if you have a level of 90%, 100% etc.

In addition you can set the tire wear, the progression of the track and the aggression of the AI, you have 4 slots to change the weather, pit stops, therefore within the race you will have different behaviors and performances.

In summary RF2 and ACC have the best AI, following these tips you will enjoy this game much more.

Not sure I agree with your appraisal!

Marcel said the AI overtaking is on their to do list, it's been broken since 2012. They can't overtake on the straights, just divebomb into the corners. Have you guys never noticed the sea of brake lights coming on along the straights as they brake in the slipstream instead of using it to pass? That is in the code, not the track. Watch an AI race and see.
Not sure why it is lauded to such an extent when something so fundamental has been borked for so long. If I get a slow exit I want the AI to pass me, like in GP4, like in AMS1. That's racing - gaining and losing positions.

 

[Ace King]

Not sure I agree with your appraisal!

Marcel said the AI overtaking is on their to do list, it's been broken since 2012. They can't overtake on the straights, just divebomb into the corners. Have you guys never noticed the sea of brake lights coming on along the straights as they brake in the slipstream instead of using it to pass? That is in the code, not the track. Watch an AI race and see.
Not sure why it is lauded to such an extent when something so fundamental has been borked for so long. If I get a slow exit I want the AI to pass me, like in GP4, like in AMS1. That's racing - gaining and losing positions.

The problem is when the AI are on their pit-in lap that they won't pass a slower car on the straight

AI overtaking isn't a problem with a good working AIW as i show here:

Track AIWs

Could a kind AI guru take a look at these Team Tchacha tracks? He does great work with the tracks themselves, but the AI are a complete disaster....

forum.studio-397.com

 

[Salvatore Sirignano]

AI overtaking isn't a problem with a good working AIW as i show here:

Track AIWs

Could a kind AI guru take a look at these Team Tchacha tracks? He does great work with the tracks themselves, but the AI are a complete disaster....

forum.studio-397.com

Those Mugello vids look promising, and thanks for posing the question to Marcel in the interview. Rather than us sorting AIWs, it would be much better if this were solved at an AI coding level, in AMS1 they solved it totally, now you can port over the most rank average rF1 track with a poor AI line and they'll still slipstream pass for fun.
That way all the old ISI tracks Spa 66 etc would automatically get decent AI too, as we know S397 will never touch those again..

 

[Ace King]

I did many track AIW's in the early days of rF1 for personal use and just recently returned to my Road Atlanta in rF1 using the great CART 84 mod and i must say the slip-streaming is awesome and well done!

I watched my AI perform a full 15 lap race and a intense battle on the final 4 laps between Michael Andretti and Al Unser Jr using the slip-stream pass with precision! Every lap on the straights they would do a perfect slip-stream pass back and forth on each lap until Michael took the win by only tenths of a second.

 

[Nano10]

Salvatore

The pace, tire wear and the progression of the track are the keys to having excellent AI.

I do not know how you have it set, the easiest is to practice and see the pace with the AI.

When the tire wear is high, if you were very careless with the tires at the beginning of the race, at the end the AI approaches and it can happen to you in a straight line because they have better performance.

Add to that the changing climate, the possibilities of having a good and fair fight with AI are endless.

 

[Ace King]

There are several rF2 track aiw's released by t0p5secret over at S397 plus i plan to release several tracks like Barbagallo, Croft, iDTLongBeach, Le Mans 2017, Mid-Ohio, Mugello, Road America, Watkins Glen, etc.

All these redone track aiw's will help improve the offline experience for those like myself who enjoy racing the AI. With a good working AIW i can usually get a better competitor and improved races than online.

 

[John Kerry]

MarcG,
Sorry it took so long to reply but I was trying to get some races done on different tracks.
I did delete the 'playerdata' and the AI are not as eratic, not coming from very far back and overtaking, but there are still problems. Eg's
* Fist second and/or third corner AI crashing on first lap, driving Tatuus FT-60 at Zandvoort 2020. Also unrealistic defending at the end of the straight.

*Still excessive AI blocking driving Nissan GT1's at Zandvoort 2020, including moving across into me as I am overtaking at the end of the straight.

*Radical SR3 at Formula E test track, AI crashing on just about every lap around me and yet they continue as if nothing happened.

From the latest posts above it seems these issues are well known and have been around for a long time AND there is little priority for S397 to addressing them.

 

[MarcG]

MarcG,
Sorry it took so long to reply but I was trying to get some races done on different tracks.
I did delete the 'playerdata' and the AI are not as eratic, not coming from very far back and overtaking, but there are still problems. Eg's

Have you got your backed up player.json for me like I asked please? PM it to me, Thanks

* Fist second and/or third corner AI crashing on first lap, driving Tatuus FT-60 at Zandvoort 2020. Also unrealistic defending at the end of the straight.

Would need to see a video, "crashing on first lap" is very generic (did you see the IndyCar race at the weekend!?!), same with your interpretation of "unrealistic" defending but i will take a look at this track when i get time.

*Still excessive AI blocking driving Nissan GT1's at Zandvoort 2020, including moving across into me as I am overtaking at the end of the straight.

Would need to see a video, have you tried lowering Aggression?

*Radical SR3 at Formula E test track, AI crashing on just about every lap around me and yet they continue as if nothing happened.

Not driven there so can't comment.

From the latest posts above it seems these issues are well known and have been around for a long time AND there is little priority for S397 to addressing them.

Hmm yes and no, there are known issues with the AI just like with every other Sim out there. What you're describing could be anything from your own driving causing issues to the AI being overzealous, or they're just racing incidents,without those videos it's hard to tell.
Thanks

 

[John Kerry]

Have you got your backed up player.json for me like I asked please? PM it to me, Thanks



Would need to see a video, "crashing on first lap" is very generic (did you see the IndyCar race at the weekend!?!), same with your interpretation of "unrealistic" defending but i will take a look at this track when i get time.



Would need to see a video, have you tried lowering Aggression?



Not driven there so can't comment.



Hmm yes and no, there are known issues with the AI just like with every other Sim out there. What you're describing could be anything from your own driving causing issues to the AI being overzealous, or they're just racing incidents,without those videos it's hard to tell.
Thanks

Hi MarcG, here are the files you requested. Thanks

 

[MarcG]

Thank you