Formula Extreme/Reiza and lack of FFB info for spins

[P*Funk]

So the basic issue is that for me driving the F Extreme and F Reiza is not enjoyable because at those critical moments at the limits of grip I get no meaningful FFB information. This is in stark contrast to just about any other SCE car I can think of and definitely the opposite to how I experience the FFB from the monster that is the F V12.

As a result the ironic thing is that I find the FV12 far easier to drive and that's entirely down to the fact that I can catch spins and slides by sensing those traction events in the FFB. The classic example for me is something like coming out of the speedy left turn hairpin at Bologna historic, the one at the end of the Tamburello straight, and how its very easy to put too much power down and have the rear want to step out. With the V12 I can catch it, while with the Reiza and the Extreme I can't, not without turning my FFB up so high that I get significant clipping. At a FFB level that doesn't give me clipping I just feel nothing to indicate I've lost traction.

For reference I use a DFGT so its a pretty weak FFB wheel compared to most people's I'm sure. Still I've made a few tries at solving it by tweaking RealFeel settings, and the result is better but still lacking. It feels like going from a sharp crisp image with the V12 to a blurry one, or like trying to catch a ball with one hand over your eye.

Basically no matter how much time I put into either the Reiza or the Extreme I develop no confidence at the limit. I can only stay on the track consistently by under driving because I can't butt up against the limit without blowing through it. I find myself trying to guess at a spin not by feel but by inference from speed and conditions (basically pattern recognition) which is obviously no way to race. I'm going to keep tweaking and see what I can come up with. I'm hoping someone else has some insights that might aid me however.

 

[Alex McRacing]

Have you got enough steering lock? I've found it easier to catch slides in the Formula Extreme now that I've upped the steering lock to 21 degrees instead of default 14. This needs to be done on each car setup.

In terms of feel, I've set effects to high and strength on GSCE to -100%. When I had my DFGT I had all the settings in the profiler on 100%. I'm sure you have done most of this already, but that's all I can come up with

 

[Marcel Kleene]

Formula Extreme does not have that much downforce as other Formula Cars from the past, especially in low speeds. So that's normal... for catching slides...DFGT is probably not the right wheel for that within GSC. I had already problems with CSW... but now with Accuforce and strong FFB, it's feels kind of cheating . It feels so natural, that the front wheels know where to go ... and the force of the wheel "forces" you to catch the slide much...much easier.

 

[P*Funk]

I definitely have enough lock and since this issue is found in the Formula Reiza as well for me then it doesn't have anything to do with downforce. Its some peculiarity of the forces involved on the front wheels in these two cars and translated into the steering forces I guess. The Formula V12 however provides a lot of feedback for these things even with a DFGT that isn't present with the Reiza or the Extreme.

I have low hopes for any solution that doesn't involve a more powerful wheel.

 

[Marcel Kleene]

P*Funk, as said Formula Reiza and Extreme (most actual Formulas in GSC) have much less downforce than a Formula V12 or Formula Classic...for me at least, it's a question of downforce and for sure not being a DD Wheel. What Wings are you using with Formula Reiza/Extreme? Tried max Wings already?

 

[Paul Bennett]

Formula Reiza and Extreme, tweak setup by making changes to the 3rd spring settings in garage (middle section). Before I could never really drive these cars now I can

 

[P*Funk]

I tend to drive default set up. I'll play with 3rd spring and I think I should try higher wing, but I never bothered with higher wing since it was the lowest speed corners for me, like coming out of hairpins where extra aero seems a waste.

We'll see.

 

[Simon Friis]

P*Funk, as said Formula Reiza and Extreme (most actual Formulas in GSC) have much less downforce than a Formula V12 or Formula Classic...

Formula Reiza has by far the most downforce of any car in GSCE. It's based on a 2.4 V8 F1 car..

 

[P*Funk]

That's what I thought, but I don't know enough to say that. Its why I'm so confused why I get better feel from the V12 which is a more volatile car then a more well balanced modern one like the Reiza.

 

[Marcel Kleene]

Wait for the V10's... that will be a downforce monster Looking forward to get them in the beta...

 

[Alex McRacing]

Wait for the V10's... that will be a downforce monster Looking forward to get them in the beta...

what beta is that?

 

[Niels_at_home]

The Formula V12 and Classic have less tire grip and less downforce, so when that gets out of shape, it tends to be a bit more within human possibility to deal with it. The F Reiza will probably remain the one with the most downforce. The up comming V10 is not quite there, they had a lot of power making them super fast on the fast circuits, but not quite as much downforce.

Throttle control is very hard in the high revving cars, wheelspin gets out of control real quick if you're not super fast with your right foot. With the V10 ,they use TC ... Now this doesn't mean it won't oversteer or slide, but it keeps the extreme wheelspin from happening. Chasing the limit is more fun and accessible with it. (at the current development stage... but the plan is to keep it that way of coruse..

 

[Marcel Kleene]

Ok, so I was wrong... sorry ... thanks for clarification Niels

 

[Will Mazeo]

The Formula V12 and Classic have less tire grip and less downforce, so when that gets out of shape, it tends to be a bit more within human possibility to deal with it. The F Reiza will probably remain the one with the most downforce. The up comming V10 is not quite there, they had a lot of power making them super fast on the fast circuits, but not quite as much downforce.

Throttle control is very hard in the high revving cars, wheelspin gets out of control real quick if you're not super fast with your right foot. With the V10 ,they use TC ... Now this doesn't mean it won't oversteer or slide, but it keeps the extreme wheelspin from happening. Chasing the limit is more fun and accessible with it. (at the current development stage... but the plan is to keep it that way of coruse..

Will you guys give us small Monza wings?

 

[Niels_at_home]

Hah well our car will be more of a 'front running 2002 season' type spec, 6 seconds faster than that Minardi at Monza!

Our cars always try to have the full downforce range available so at wing settings F1 R1 you get the monza ish spec setup which is mostly useless anywhere else. But a 1:20 lap is more planted than Fernando's 1:26.

 

[Will Mazeo]

Well I prefer the Minardi, it looked so cool
Thanks for the answer

 

[Oscar Hardwick]

Well I prefer the Minardi, it looked so cool
Thanks for the answer

Tell you what'd be awesome is if when the V10 is released we get skin packs for the V10 era for leagues. I'd kill for a 2004 style season but with league "spec" car physics.

 

[Renato Simioni]

In part this would be due to the fact that as Niels´ explained - the modern cars have more downforce (and/or are more dependent on that downforce), so the loads are higher, which in turn means there is less margin for correction when the grip finally snaps.

There has been some improvements in both aero and tires for v1.50 though which I believe give the F-Reiza and F-Extreme a bit more feel on the limit, even if the above still applies.

 

[DeoraTwo]

Hah well our car will be more of a 'front running 2002 season' type spec, 6 seconds faster than that Minardi at Monza!

Our cars always try to have the full downforce range available so at wing settings F1 R1 you get the monza ish spec setup which is mostly useless anywhere else. But a 1:20 lap is more planted than Fernando's 1:26.

So is it gonna be based on the Williams or the Ferrari? I remember the Retro being a Brabham Bt44, the Classic kinda sorta being an McLaren, and the v12 being a Ferrari, so I look forward to seeing what model you pick for the v10.

Now that I think about it, the promo picture was a Photoshopped red Williams FW24, so , awesome!

 

[P*Funk]

Thanks Niels and anonymous Reiza person for your input. I haven't given them a try so far in this version but I plan to. My real issue has been a total, and I mean total, lack of feel for losing control under power in those things and that means that if the car is rotating under grip versus rotating without grip it would make no difference to my sensory experience so making corrective action is effectively impossible even when not pushing the limit. I would only know I'm losing control after I've passed the point of no return or past a point of appropriate action to achieve a good recovery.

This means that if the grip snaps I'm not even knowing its snapped. Dead wheel coming out of say the hairpin at Suzuka, car goes left into the barrier and it feels no different than if it were still under grip enough to straighten out under control.

I'm wondering if you think this is because I have a very low power FFB wheel. I have noticed increased feel at traction loss events when I push FFB up to levels of clipping which is obviously useless as a normal way to drive.

Anyway thanks for input and I'll report back on if 1.50 has improved my experience here.