Formula Legacy Manager - 70s

[Milos]

Yes and while I understand all of that I still think you should let us choose our own sponsors. Different payouts for different tiers could be a thing as Aidan mentioned before. It'd be way more difficult for a tier 3/4 team to score points than it would be for a tier 1/2 team. So you should give the tier 3/4 teams a bigger payout for the same sponsor. It's all about risk v reward and I seem to think you're forgetting that.

This.
While I was moderating my own manager game, this is something I would have added in the off season had I continued. Have one risky/difficult to achieve sponsor, one likely achieveable sponsor that pays less and one easily achieveable sponsor that pays even less.

 

[rubaru]

Jason Lutz
March
No Purchases.

 

[Jimlaad43]

I understand why you've done it, but it's still not fair. The reshuffling idea and way it was done was utterly fantastic, some teams did really well out of it, while others got screwed, but that's the point. Tyrrell for example did extremely badly. However, being Tier 1, we were stuck with the Victory sponsor, which was not achievable. I would happily have dropped it to a Top 10 sponsor to try and make some buys. Currently this season I've not been able to make any buys because of an unacheivable sponsor.

What should have been done is what I suggested earlier, where Tiers have multipliers. Allow everyone the choice between the sponsors we had in Seasons 1 and 2. Now the thing is, higher Tiered cars will naturally get more money from better results, but they could just choose the top 10 sponsor for little risk. Keep the prize money for finishing positions the same for every driver, but add a multiplier to the sponsors.

Tier 1: x0.6
Tier 2: x0.8
Tier 3: x1.0
Tier 4: x1.2

This means that everyone can still get money to upgrade, but it doesn't snowball for the bigger teams. Look at BRM, they're doing really well and for being in a lower tier, should get more money from their sponsors for finishing in a position Tier 1 cars should be in, than a Tier 1 in the same position. This rewards big teams for punching above their weight, while not punishing large teams for having a bad off season. I'm fine with my team being demoted a Tier, I really am, but without any option of my choosing to get back up there, I am not happy. I would happily take a reduced Top 10 sponsor over a full Victory sponsor at the moment.

You could obviously restrict the sponsors each Tier is allowed. Maybe Tier 1 is only allowed Victory, Podium and Top 5. Tier 2 can have Podium, Top 5 and Top 10, Tiers 3 and 4 can have Top 5, Top 10 and Finish.
But this season is needlessly demoting some teams without giving the managers a chance to save the situation.


What also needs changing is the cheap buys. Ben has found a spectacular loophole and has managed to cheaply buy some Red Bull front and rear wings and bolt them to the Surtees, which is fine under the current rules, but seems a bit silly IRL. Maybe restrict everyone to 5 cheaper parts from the next monetary tier, along with the Max 20 clicks coming in.

 

[Meff28s]

it says "per parts", so iassume you can go for +20 aer, +20 eng and +20 mec at the same time

Yes Ben is right, +20 each will be possible. Prices will certainly change a little bit as some of you have increased their ratings way too fast ! I would need a reshuffle sooner than excepted

About the sponsors :
As i said, I need FIRST to see how it works with only one sponsor (which is the risky one). But the sponsor choice is already written in my Excel sheet since a week. I need to set the rewards correctly, i've added to the first page what i currently have.

About the DNFs :
This is how DNF basically works. If you are 50 mechanics you have 50% chance of retire. If you are 60 mechanics you have 40% chance of retire etc... BUT it also depends on the profile of your drivers. 50 mechanics with a 75 aggression represents 60% chance of retire. Same mechanics with a 25 Aggression driver represents 40% chance of retire.

 

[rubaru]

I'm happy with the reshuffle, but I think it was too much. I am in the same situation some as others, so it's fair, but I don't like that my Aero dropped 31 points in the off-season. It would take me $3000-4000 to make that up again.

 

[Meff28s]

@Jimlaad43
This could be a good idea but who loose in your system ? This is a game, we need to have winners and loosers. If everyone can get money every race, everyone will upgrade their car. What will happen is that the gap between teams' ratings will be tighter. Everyone will be sort of Tier2. And in fact.. everyone will loose. Results will be 100% random. Some Teams NEED to earn nothing. I mean the game needs that some teams earn nothing. One looser per Tier seems to me very fair and quite realistic.

You're absolutely right, this season you can't buy anything. This is the truth, your sponsor is unreachable. You can throw this year away. But where is the problem ? That does happen sometimes. Next Year you'll be Tier2. Like Matra or BRM are doing, you'll try to find a way to reach Tier1 again. The game goes 4 races by 4 races. A season represents a week. This week is a shitty week for you while for some others everything works fine. Stewart's contract will expire and future Tier2 Tyrrell is going to write a new history.

 

[Benutzername]

Agree on @Jimlaad43

I think pmultipliers for each tier would work great.
The idea to make it max +20 an upgrade is great aswell.

Also it should be disallowed to do what the cheeky germans did: Upgrading massively while still having a cheaper value. -> Maybe just allow the cheaper buys til +5 or +10 of the normal level -> If you have 32 Aero you can upgrade til 45 cheaper if you buy it in one go. The 46 point would cost the normal price.

Also i think there should be a some kind of season cut in the future.
I had the idea to save my money for 2 seasons or so and then upgrade everything to 99 in one go, while still needing to invest less money than usual. Its not the spirit of the game for sure but it wouldve worked. I mean its nice that poor teams could be patient, wait some time and than have a realistic approach towards a great result in a season, but there should be some kind of restriction.

Maybe each team is only allowed to carry over 30% of their budget over into the following season. You can still save some money up but it can't get too high.



Just some thoughts. I think they could work out pretty well.



-


The game will work out really well in the future once we find a good balance with the regulations. The fact that each season is relatively quickly done will mean that
a) we can try some things out
b) it will also need some seasons to adjust.




Edit:

@Jimlaad43
This could be a good idea but who loose in your system ? This is a game, we need to have winners and loosers. If everyone can get money every race, everyone will upgrade their car. What will happen is that the gap between teams' ratings will be tighter. Everyone will be sort of Tier2. And in fact.. everyone will loose. Results will be 100% random. Some Teams NEED to earn nothing. I mean the game needs that some teams earn nothing.

You're absolutely right, this season you can't buy anything. This is the truth, your sponsor is unreachable. You can throw this year away. But where is the problem ? That does happen sometimes. Next Year you'll be Tier2. Like Matra or BRM are doing, you'll try to find a way to reach Tier1 again. The game goes 4 races by 4 races. A season represents a week. This week is a shitty week for you while for some others everything works fine. Stewart's contract will expire and future Tier2 Tyrrell is going to write a new history.

Havent thought about it that way, interesting point of view and i think having that in mind its easier to take it as it is.
But still there are som valid arguments on both sides

 

[Benutzername]

I'm happy with the reshuffle, but I think it was too much. I am in the same situation some as others, so it's fair, but I don't like that my Aero dropped 31 points in the off-season. It would take me $3000-4000 to make that up again.

Everyone was cut a percentage of his points anyway, so it was quite equal. That's why the number is so high. Without that it wouldn't be a change as big, but it has to be done equally for everyone to bring the field closer together again (big teams will loose more points (just maths) and at some point teams wouldnt have been able to upgrade anymore.

I think it was quite well done

 

[Meff28s]

Obviously the problem was +60 Engine XD
I couldn't avoid you to do this as it was planned for some days and Tobi (BRM) already did it.

Next season, +20 maximum per parts should work. But maybe +10 will be more fair, as some teams will not have the opportunity to be Under40/60/80 and go directly to a different category in one buy.

By the way, a Multiplier system is very similar to what i'll propose. 2 sponsors, a risky one, an easy one. A risky one that earns the most. An easy one that earns quite nothing.. but it is still better than nothing. No Tier3 will ever choose Podium or Victory sponsors so it seems useless to give this possibility. Also, in my opinion, one Tier1 team should fall off per year to offer a Tier 2 a title shot. But a Tier1 team won't loose their ratings. If the team is still better than the new Tier1, the team will just have the opportunity to have an easier sponsor.

Anyway, waiting for the buys of :
@Jimlaad43 @Manolis Sigoulakis @Aidan Keranen @The_Laskinator & @TTupsi

 

[TTupsi]

I think there should be more randomness to the results. Back in the day there were some VERY odd results from time to time (Minardi on pole and all). Now the strong teams are strong whatever what happens and the weaker teams have zero chance of getting results. If it was just 1% chance of getting a points finish it would be more realistic

 

[Jimlaad43]

I cant make any buys because of the stupid sponsors.

@Meff28s, you said you're trying things, this system has not worked. Give people at least 3 sponsors to choose from regardless of Tier, two is not enough.

 

[kedy89]

I think there should be more randomness to the results. Back in the day there were some VERY odd results from time to time (Minardi on pole and all). Now the strong teams are strong whatever what happens and the weaker teams have zero chance of getting results. If it was just 1% chance of getting a points finish it would be more realistic

As said before already, not enough driver scoring points. 1971 13 (22 rl), 1972 14 (21 rl), 1973 13 so far (21 rl).

Also I still feel that the only way to improve right now is to luck out in the shuffle, but there's pretty much nothing you can do as manager yourself to improve your team towards the top.

Who wants to sign unknown guys with terrible ratings ^^ ?

Also, drivers, this should neither be a reason to restrict the grid, nor the drivers market. If someone hasn't heard of one of them, there's google. Would give more choices if you're looking for someone within a certain budget range/age.

 

[Meff28s]

@Jimlaad43
Jim, the system actually works quite perfectly. On team per tier is loosing and will be relegated. One team per tier is winning and will be promoted. This is exactly what i wanted and this is exactly what is happening. We'll have 2 sponsors per Tier next season. Not 3.
The worst Tier1 car have the ratings to finish at least 5th without any DNF. I won't let you choose a Top5 sponsor as i won't reward a team to finish at a position it should finish. Rewards should be reserved for something abnormal, something great.

@TTupsi
I know that it could/should happen. But i don't want to be as odd as it was at that time. It has already a lot of randomness. Last 2 years, Stewart in his Tyrrell was absolutely unreachable on the paper. Best driver on the best car, everyone behind was theoretically driving at least +0.300 seconds behind per lap. I gave a maximum +0.400 random value to each lap which is very high. This way, other drivers could win a race and he could finish behind Cevert at least once or twice ^^. 22 cars was faster than a Shadow car. To get a point, Milos would need at least 10 DNFs and have a way better "random value" than 7 other cars. You see ?

@kedy89
Not enough drivers scoring points compared to what they should score... ok but some teams ran with more than 3 drivers ! If there were only 2 drivers per team, 18 guys in 1971 would have scored points. I assume that it is still more than what we have.
By the way, it isn't the reshuffle which made you Tier1 right now. First, having a very cheap driver to increase the rewards. Second, save money nearly a whole year. You have currently the fastest car. Without the reshuffle (but with the -30%) you would have been the 2nd fastest car. In my opinion there are several ways to improve your team. Surtees, Matra, March, Ferrari, even Shadow are good examples.

 

[TTupsi]

@TTupsi
I know that it could/should happen. But i don't want to be as odd as it was at that time. It has already a lot of randomness. Last 2 years, Stewart in his Tyrrell was absolutely unreachable on the paper. Best driver on the best car, everyone behind was theoretically driving at least +0.300 seconds behind per lap. I gave a maximum +0.400 random value to each lap which is very high. This way, other drivers could win a race and he could finish behind Cevert at least once or twice ^^. 22 cars was faster than a Shadow car. To get a point, Milos would need at least 10 DNFs and have a way better "random value" than 7 other cars. You see ?

If odd is realistic, why not do it? That's what F1's excitement used to be - the odd results. Spa 1998, Monaco 1982, Monaco 1984, Italy 2008 are races every F1 fan remembers but the oddities like that are impossible in this game unfortunately

 

[Meff28s]

If odd is realistic, why not do it? That's what F1's excitement used to be - the odd results. Spa 1998, Monaco 1982, Monaco 1984, Italy 2008 are races every F1 fan remembers but the oddities like that are impossible in this game unfortunately

Theorically, this could happen. Radom values are everywhere in my simulator. On the paper, every one has a chance to retire. There's a random possibility that only two Tecno cars finish the race XD But you'll understand it has less than a tiny little chance to happen ^^ However, i'll see what I can do to randomize a little more the results

 

[Meff28s]

@Jimlaad43 @Manolis Sigoulakis @Aidan Keranen @The_Laskinator & @TTupsi
Guys, you've got 26h to make your buys (or not)

 

[Jimlaad43]

I've already said I'm not making any

 

[Meff28s]

Ok I didn't see

 

[Aidan Keranen]

ahh +6 aero I believe.

 

[The_Laskinator]

Jack Laskey
Brabham
+2 Mec