AC GT3 @ Okayama - Sunday 8th October 2023

[Interslice]

Interesting discussion. I don't think the system is that good now. I'll give an example of this. Let's assume a very fast driver drives every race with the same car that everyone knows is the slowest, and wins every time because he is by far the best driver. Where does this lead us?

We can just ignore Fulvio as an outlier

 

[stigs2cousin]

Wer can only agree on one thing:

it´s impossible to get the BOP right and fair for everybody and every track.

It will play out over the season, but will always struggle with cars newly added.
I don´t know a driver who can drive three laps with a car and then give a BOP that will work on every track, let alone for different driver skills.

At the Nürburgring 24h race in 2023 the Ferrari 296 was a little known entity.
Even the NLS Team that uses all the practice data available didn´t get it just right, the Frikadelli team dominated the GT3 class with the new car.
The team is extremely experienced and probably did a lot of things right, but the data showed that topspeed and corner gs where "out of their league"

TLR .

BOP will always be a bitch, so we take it as is or drive MX5s

 

[H_Belane]

We can just ignore Fulvio as an outlier

You got me. I just think to myself, good result in the last race, and then, oh, in the next race I should probably take a different car so as not to make the beautiful RSS M6 even slower. This is a dilemma. There must be another solution (which I don't know).

 

[Medilloni]

If the BTCC championship was BoP'd in the same way I wouldn't have signed up. Not a whinge, I love gt3'S but not when I can't know how the BoP will change

 

[Kek700]

Well said Hank, kept meaning to say that but always got diverted onto another point of view and forgot to state the bleeding obvious.

Now that would work, driver and car gets a BOP. Not the rest of the field in the same car.

I still cannot get this system right in my head to say yes I agree. The more I think about the less sense it makes.

All the comparisons are with professional drivers and professional teams.

Not Bert with his desk chair and DFGT wheel from Birkenhead.

 

[Interslice]

Some nice shiny new cars and people are asking me to apply a fixed hotlap BoP from race 1. Ah yes new cars from a new developer, never driven them before, sure ye that would be perfect and never need updating

 

[stigs2cousin]

Exactly our point.

So everybody shut up and always buy the newest cars for no BOP

" Pay to win?" Who said that ? Step forward and tell it to the class

Let´s not forget this is a loose series of unrelated amateur races, not a Racing League (still for internet points only)

Privately I have to admit that this whole "pay for new cars or eat dust" thingy kept me from participating.
I am too cheap to buy new cars every month and not motivated to invest several hours of practice into a car that is not competetive.

 

[H_Belane]

Some nice shiny new cars and people are asking me to apply a fixed hotlap BoP from race 1. Ah yes new cars from a new developer, never driven them before, sure ye that would be perfect and never need updating

Correct.

Here in Germany we had the discussion before video evidence was introduced in football that there would never be topics to discuss again.

After the introduction of VAR there is more discussion than ever before.

 

[Kek700]

My final word on this….promise.

There are people on our forum who are quicker than I am, I cannot return to my maker and demand an update to my DNA. And possibly an alteration to those who parented me.
.
I have to make sure that I find a league that I can survive in and race in. I generally use setup, car choice and circuit knowledge to help me bridge the gap. Now Fulvio is out of my league totally, irrespective of car he drives and if Robert does not mind me using him as an example in this series, so is Robert. Now I can pick a car, and compete effectively, set it up and try and do battle with Robert and those around me. Probably will still lose, but in with a shout. Now I am faced with a bopped car that is slow, unbopped car that I cannot find anyway of improving, and a cars that do not suit me. And the remaining top 5 from the obvious front runners will just find a less bopped car they can use and I cannot.

Are we going to go fixed setup the bop does not work, period.

I raced very well with the Kunos GT3, always finding a car that worked for me, and had a selection of 4 cars that I rotated.

All it achieves is the fastest drivers car gets the most BOP, the car is of no concern to them, anyone very close eventually chooses the same car and races on equal terms. The rest of us plod around in a heavily bopped cars and go further back than normal in what has become a dull plodder. And instead of in with a chance, we enter the school of no hope and eventually Bob hope.

I comfortably raced the Corvette on equal terms, these cars have strengths and weakness that pan out. Now the 911 RSR is useless against the Corvettes. I don’t like the Corvette, not for me.
Now I had no other choice but to race the Audi and Toyota, in a hopeless battle, I notice that the Toyota has not been bopped. It is clearly much quicker than the Audi in a race. If not over a lap so much, but you are never going to beat it over the start finish line.
I just do not understand the logic of the Audi and Toyota and then the Corvette and 911 RSR.
I can see this being applied to this series.
This really is my last word on the subject… I have deemed it a hopeless cause..

 

[Interslice]

I just do not understand the logic of the Audi and Toyota and then the Corvette and 911 RSR.

A championship you need to pick whatever car is fastest for you. If you didn't you live and learn, or enjoy the challenge. Championship BoP will always be fixed from start to end.

The gte cars were BoPd in traditional hotlap at one track system. Using data from me from one lap at one track.
If this was round 1 tomorrow I would do the same.
Since it is not here is a system that balances cars using data from many track and many drivers. Different logic. Adapts with setups improving and drivers tuning into cars in the long term. Takes into account performance over an hour.
You then arrive at a championship in these cars with a better BoP.
Caveat, see first paragraph.

 

[Kek700]

I throw the towel in.

 

[stigs2cousin]

It´s an unsolveable problem even with the resources of a world renowned irl racing series as stated above.

So above putting up a race very week (and putting up with our bitching and whining )
Brian could collect all the lap data from the practice server and run a statistical analysis to compute a fair BOP.
Of course every participant will exclusively practice on the server redface and nobody will sandbag with setup and or fuel load redface to not taint the data and to not gain a BOP advantage...

TL;DR thanks Brian for the Sunday races, I´ll step in when car and track are to my liking.

 

[H_Belane]

After sleeping on it for a night, I came to the realization that it's okay the way it is. It's also a nice challenge to keep the car you like fast despite the additional restrictions.

It's fun to fight the pounds.

 

[The Almighty Snark]

Remember in real life BoP is also a constant discussion point, take the recent Bathurst 1000 as an example and Ford's public whinging about the BoP applied to them and the vette. It's the same with F1 that doesn't have a BoP but a set of design regulations and restrictions where everyone is trying to play fast and loose with them. They make something dominating and often times the rules change to adapt it for everyone or nerf it for the designer.

Racing in a mixed car championship will require some sort of balancing act, that could be an up front application, balancing throughout the season or perhaps even applying it on a driver by driver basis. Many choices, many options.

Or we could just force everyone to drive the Kunos GT3 911

Be happy Brian is in charge here is all that I am saying

 

[Alfred Wayne]

My 2 cents, If BOP applied to drivers, I'd be fast in the M4 and very slow in the merc at this track.

If BOP applied to cars, Id be fast in the M4 but id have the option to choose the merc and still be competitive.

The BMW is just flat out fast with a short braking distance.

IDK about anyone else, but I can't recall a race I've had here, where i drove perfectly but it was due to BOP that I couldn't overtake or be competitive. It was more realistically me putting a tire in the grass or mucking up my pit stop which lost me time and positions

I've also gone back to the kunos cars sometimes since we started with the RSS, maybe it's just my lowly G27, but they seem to lack a lot of the sensitivity compared to RSS/URD. Especially in the braking. I don't remember enjoying GT3 driving in them as much as I am now.
I trust our race directors decisions....For now

 

[Kek700]

 

[Kek700]

The gears being fixed , is that meant or a server mistake.?

 

[The Almighty Snark]

I think it is by design as Brian mentioned earlier.

 

[stigs2cousin]

The gears being fixed , is that meant or a server mistake.?

Psst, I think someone sneakily "bopped" around there

S C N R

 

[Partick Eaton]

Hey Brian please sign me up with the URD Bayro 4 GT3 v2. I am not seeing the signup link.
Any livery will do.
Thanks