Is Metalmoro unfinished ?

[Jan Mikuž]

It feels like it's unfinished physics-wise. Is it @Reiza Studios ?

I find it's too twitchy and on the edge of losing grip all the time. Also when it bogs down mid slow corner, the traction fall off feels too severe and the car will spin at 40 kmh sometimes. I doubt the high tech modern racing machine is this awkward to drive...

It's definitely fun and challenging and all that, but I feel it still needs some adjusting of the numbers/physics.

Anyone else feels the same ?

 

[Andy_J]

I'm sure they have enough cash to fix it now.

 

[Nox]

I agree that the MR18 is very awkward, and can punish you in an instant, even if you take the lap the same each time. In a long race we had, I found the car got really bad as the fuel went down. Maybe it is like that in real life, but I'm not a fan. I tend to stay away from the car for now.

 

[Guilherme Borghezani]

one thing you need to know is, mr18 is a real ''prototype'' car, is a experiment
the real car have some problems (durability, gear, aero, engine)
but for brasil, this is a GREAT project, revolutionary for us (''cheap project'' made by ''amateur'' driver for 12 hours of taruma, yeah is awkward)
second version of mr18 is really better (http://www.correiodopovo.com.br/blogs/pitlane/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/mr18.jpg) with more downforce and other things (look the flipper)
talking about reiza physics , is very good, but , i think minor adjusts is coming of course

 

[Jan Mikuž]

The truth is i don't drive this much (every now and then) and i always need to spend a couple of hours to familiarize myself again with the physics (apparently). The track i was playing yesterday and based my opinion on was also not the best choice probably - Curitiba - since this car doesn't like curbs and bumps (so i notice) and i was having a lot of problems controlling the car on that track. Similar issues at Bathurst - very tricky to drive with this car there and very rewarding when you pull off a fast clean lap.

Anyway, now, after spending more time with it, i feel much more in control of the car. Yes, it's got some quirks of its own (and it still has problems at Curitiba , probably needs setup tweaking for the bumps), but i wouldn't necessarily say the physics is unfinished. My bad.
In need of some minor tweaking/adjustments, as Guilherme said, would probably be more accurate to say.

 

[Patrick Giranthon]

Default setup is a bit dangerous to drive I think. With a corrected one, you can do more laps without spinning ^^.
Very pleasant car to drive, but not the easiest

 

[Jan Mikuž]

Yes, i increased coast % (i like to stick to the 1st page in garage ) and it's more stable off throttle now. There's a lot more that can be adjusted, ofcourse, but i'm not good at setups. Just a matter of testing.

 

[C-B]

The Metalmoro is the car I spend most of my time with. It does need some setup work to get it to suit how you drive, but I find it to be the most fun and rewarding of all the cars. It really feels like you are pushing it to the edge (as you should be if you a racing) and very rewarding when you get it dialled in.
In my opinion if Reiza are planning on refining, please don't change it to much as I think you have produced an awesome sim car

 

[P*Funk]

Well since nobody has been mentioning this car around here much I'll necro this thread.

At first I felt like the car somehow wasn't right. It would spin a lot and I couldn't get consistent with it. Then I realized there were two problems and an additional thing to do.

#1 I didn't know how to drive it. I was driving it like another GT car but its really just an open wheeler with fenders. Don't do too much trail braking, just do slow in fast out. Brake in straight lines and at the right speed the car will come around the corner almost like an F3 that's really heavy and set up to understeer.

#2 Default set up for once in my history of driving a Reiza car isn't great. To get consistent laps at any track with bumps (see almost any track in Brazil that isn't new this decade) I had to soften the suspension about 30Nm/mm all around. In order to actually do Sunset Bend at Sebring without fearing severe inside lock up if I ever pushed a little too hard I had to increase coast about 15-20%.

#3 I cheated and started using TC on Low so I could actually finish some laps and ended up liking it. Reiza recently broke me of my habit of never using these assists by suggesting they're more realistic for the new Lancers. I found its nice and in endurance racing it seems like a fair thing to use (I know real life regs vary by year and series). I may try to see if my adjustments in #1 and 2 have sorted the need for it.

All in all I'd say its a blast to drive this thing, and I've just started testing out the prospect of doing a multi class race at Sebring using StockV8s and Copa de Marcas cars. Copa de Marcas are a bit too slow so I really wish we had those Copa Montanas.

 

[ThatRacingGuy]

. Copa de Marcas are a bit too slow so I really wish we had those Copa Montanas.

You know that the montanas (V8 Utes) are announced in the crowdfunding program right?

 

[P*Funk]

Yes, that's why I mentioned them. I also saw what looked like a Copa Montana in an onboard of an MR18 doing the 12 Hours of Taruma.

After even more driving I can say that the MetalMoro is a tough car to get right. Consistency can be elusive because its very unforgiving if you push it too hard. It has an understeering tendency I haven't quite sorted out entirely that means if you put any power down too early in a corner you're going wide, but it also means that its harder to modulate the steering as I would in a car like the F3 or Vee which has that very useful trait of lift-off oversteer. However if you don't carry enough speed into a corner you just lose your lap. Much harder to ride the edge in my opinion than with most formula cars that just turn for days and GT cars that can be teased around corners with oversteer or trail braking.

It also has the annoying tendency to careen out of control around a corner if I carry too much speed. Increasing preload might sort it a bit but its still dangerous, particularly if you're at the limit and getting into a rhythm. I found very little FF or visual cues for the kind of out of control tendency to just continue the rotation through a medium speed corner that ended one race I was doing earlier.

 

[xnorb]

The Metalmoro is the weirdest car i have ever driven in a sim.
You expect it to be lightning fast and glued to the ground but in reality this thing is nothing like that
With the default setup it's damn tough to drive it (as mentioned above by the guys who really know hot to drive) and if you are not good with setting up then you get frustrated super fast.

So, softening the suspension and increasing coast could be your first thing to do before even starting up the engine in the pits?

 

[P*Funk]

Honestly at this point setting TC to Low might be the first thing to do.

The problem is that I can't figure out how to eliminate its severe understeer issue that will suddenly turn into nearly unrecoverable oversteer. If you come in too fast its understeer city, but if you try to use brake or more lock you can spin out almost without a doubt. Even if you're too slow for the corner more power just sends you understeering off the track or occasionally spins you but I wouldn't want to lower the Power diff because when you get it right it feels like its the power that's bringing your around the corner.

Its very tricky. The worst thing is that in low speed hairpins I have my worst troubles. It feels down on mechanical grip or something and the line between coming in too slow and coming in with too much speed that you spin out is so fine that its consistently the thing that ruins my laps. The weird thing is that it feels like it should be able to carry the corner but then it just gives up traction.

Very strange. I spun out in a race last night and declared without intent or forethought "I hate this car!" I don't but it was an expression of how frustrating it can be. Maybe this is what all those F1 drivers feel when they mouth off to the press about how bad their cars handle.

 

[Kevin Pheiffer]

Our league has raced all the cars in the game at some point.
The ONLY one nobody likes is the Metalmoro, and it's also the only car we DO NOT use for league racing. Not one driver enjoys them.
You never feel in control of the car. 5 to 10 laps in you fine, then bang, back just comes around for no reason.
You so busy trying to keep the car on the road, you don't even notice you on the track with other drivers. No fun.
I hope Reiza can adjust them for a smoother ride.

 

[Will Mazeo]

If the car in real life is not a smooth ride then let it be the way it is now

 

[P*Funk]

You never feel in control of the car. 5 to 10 laps in you fine, then bang, back just comes around for no reason.

Absolutely. That is my experience. Even with set up tweaking and dozens of laps to establish a baseline of how to drive it and get comfortable with how it is on a track I did a race where about 6 laps in on a corner I never felt any danger in or spun out in before the rear suddenly lost it. I was in cruise mode, that kind of zone where you're hitting your marks and not thinking about it. I didn't lose concentration like it is with most of my mistakes, I didn't let up on my pace to try and be safe and inadvertently drive myself into a loss of control, no it was driven basically at the established limit I had found.

Inexplicable rear loss of traction. If I had to name a major trait the car possesses its that. Reminds me of driving the worse cars in iRacing.

 

[PieterN]

Maybe @Niels_at_home can shed some light on this ?

 

[Niels_at_home]

Renato, no stranger to modding (Champ Cars anyone?) made this car. I'm afraid I have yet to turn its 5 wheels (steering and tires..)

 

[Renato Simioni]

Worth remembering that despite the looks, this is a bit of a small shop prototype -it does not feature the downforce or generally the engineering behind your average LMP. With its actual specs (very stiff suspension, no roll bars), it is reportedly a handful.

With that said I generally agree it´s a bit too critical and tends to snap in a hurry, I´ve tuned it a bit for v1.50 but aero / suspension / tires probably need a full revision. Will get to it at some point.

 

[Will Mazeo]

Worth remembering that despite the looks, this is a bit of a small shop prototype -it does not feature the downforce or generally the engineering behind your average LMP. With its actual specs (very stiff suspension, no roll bars), it is reportedly a handful.

With that said I generally agree it´s a bit too critical and tends to snap in a hurry, I´ve tuned it a bit for v1.50 but aero / suspension / tires probably need a full revision. Will get to it at some point.

Make Niels work more!