PC1 Is Project Cars realistic?

[Dan Allen]

Don't worry...

 

[Birddogg66]

Yep, no doubt about it. Pcars is fun to race, great online racing here at the Pcars club, but it is very much "simcade" when compared to the other established race sims. It is without a doubt, Shift 3 in all but name.

If you think pCARS drives like Shift there is not much hope for you

 

[ouvert]

since we are talking about realism .. I tried to do more testing but run into one obstacle.. is it possible to get lower than 16 degrees without raing? .. I`ve tried Silverstone - january after midnight with fog which was 16C and that wasn`t low enough .. I don`t think I wanna try all possible combinations of season, time and weather so if you have any tips .. thankx

 

[CCL71]

My main issue with pcars is the lack of front grip information. Every car has a feeling of driving on glass. I'm using the tweaker files from the forum and that helped a lot, especially with the race cars but even with them, there is no communication when the front tires have washed out. In other sims, my wheel goes light or there is interruption of vibration, something that says I'm understeering. If I could find a way to improve that, I don't think I'd much else to complain about. No, PCARS doesn't do weight transfer very well but then, neither does Iracing. I've accepted that every sim has it's own traits and handling characteristics. PCARS is really good simcade to me, it's not the most realistic but it isn't complete arcade either. It puts a smile on my face most of the time so that's all that matters.

 

[Andy_J]

PCARS is really good simcade to me, it's not the most realistic but it isn't complete arcade either. It puts a smile on my face most of the time so that's all that matters.

That's how I feel about it. I like it, it's great fun.

 

[ouvert]

That's how I feel about it. I like it, it's great fun.

mod-edit: please stay polite and within forum rules

 

[AndrewBo]

Here is a last warning for you as well to stop adding fuel to the fire. Guys, behave like adults please and if it aint possible to react like one, then simply don't reply at all

 

[ouvert]

ok, sorry, it was just inocent joke, that I`m sure Andy gets and wont mind .. I`d like to be little less serious when it gets to this kind of discussions

 

[Andy_J]

ok, sorry, it was just inocent joke, that I`m sure Andy gets and wont mind .. I`d like to be little less serious when it gets to this kind of discussions

Well I never saw it due to the mod editing, but I guess it was harmless fun. Some people do take things a little too seriously around here. Especially the guys that seem keen to just call names and aim verbal abuse due to losing pathetic arguments. But as they say in Austria " it's all water off a dingo's back mate"

 

[Birddogg66]

My main issue with pcars is the lack of front grip information. Every car has a feeling of driving on glass. I'm using the tweaker files from the forum and that helped a lot, especially with the race cars but even with them, there is no communication when the front tires have washed out. In other sims, my wheel goes light or there is interruption of vibration, something that says I'm understeering. If I could find a way to improve that, I don't think I'd much else to complain about. No, PCARS doesn't do weight transfer very well but then, neither does Iracing. I've accepted that every sim has it's own traits and handling characteristics. PCARS is really good simcade to me, it's not the most realistic but it isn't complete arcade either. It puts a smile on my face most of the time so that's all that matters.

Your Avatar is what's Simcade LOL Actually I find that I am in tune with what the front wheels are doing in pCARS which may slightly side on understeery like GTR2 was while rF1 and rF2 may be considered oversteery and I find it hard to tell what the rear is doing with the lack of the seat of the pants instincts you get in a real car. So I am the opposite.

 

[CCL71]

Hey, don't knock Speed Racer, he's the greatest driver of all time (we won't debate if Racer X was better,lol)

I can't remember which tweaker file I used but I do remember wanting more information from the rear and wanting to feel bumps better. The net result is now my wheel tugs like it should when the rear is stepping out and now bumpy tracks now feel bumpy but I still don't get anything from the front end. I can only tell I'm going off line by eye balling it. Interestingly enough, front wheel drive cars feel pretty good though. If I get on throttle too early and light up the fronts, my wheel gets stiff, I like that. By contrast, Iracing gives decent feedback from the fronts but I'll be dammed if I can save myself when the rear steps out. Other than the MX, if I don't catch the rear immediately, I'm going into a wall. I will say that over all, I have to adjust my driving to PCARS and Iracing more so than in R3E,A/C and rF2.

 

[Deleted member 113561]

Well I never saw it due to the mod editing, but I guess it was harmless fun. Some people do take things a little too seriously around here. Especially the guy that seem keen to just call names and aim verbal abuse due to losing pathetic arguments. But as they say in Austria " it's all water off a dingo's back mate"

Ohhh youre talking about yourself ^^
Btw they dont speak English in Austria normally

PCARS is really good simcade to me, it's not the most realistic but it isn't complete arcade either. It puts a smile on my face most of the time so that's all that matters.

Why is it Simcade for you?

 

[David Cordell]

At the end of the poll, only a 1/3rd of the people think it's a true sim. More than a 1/3rd think it's a sim but in a simcade sense. The rest think it's not a sim or are undecided.

Simcade means simulation with arcade elements. The parachute/quicksand grass, by itself, puts this title into the simcade category. I can't see anybody that could argue for it being realistic for grass to slow down a car like it does in this game especially when you floor the throttle and even downshift and floor it, the cars still slow down. If RF2 or GSCE had grass like this, I would call those simcade as well.

 

[CCL71]

@neuer31
My criteria for judging a sim vs an arcade comes down to how the car handles to me. I don't really care about laser scanned tracks and pit lane features and etc.... Without going into a long post, I'll put it like this, Horizons 2 is arcade to me...the cars are numb and super easy to do whatever in. Whether you use a wheel or controller, you will find that you can be a driving god with very little input. On the other end of the spectrum (for me) is rFactor2. The cars are very communicative, my wheel responds the same way it does in a real car and the physics mimic what would happen in real life. Both are fun but in very different ways.

Project CARS is right in the middle for me.....where it does take some skill to keep the cars under control, they also seem easier to control than other sims...A/C, r3e and rF2. I find myself catching slides that I know I wouldn't be able to in other sims, let alone, real life. In A/C, when I go into a turn, I can feel weight transfer as my wheel loads up and gets a little stiff, then the stiffness lessons as the car rotates, then it disappears once the car is straight again. PCARS has none of that. I also can feel camber changes in the roads in other sims, not just bumps, but my wheel will pull to whatever angle the road is cambered on. I get none of that in PCARS. Yes, I can feel some bumps, take Monza or Satikko for example, but I never get a feeling like my car is skipping across the surface, which is what would happen in real life when taking a bumpy curve.
Damn, this post was longer than I intended, my bad. For me it's all about feeling and physics...can I feel what the car is doing and how the road feels. I think most would agree that Iracing is certainly a sim but in my opinion, the driving dynamics are, shall we say confusing to me. In Iracing, I feel like I'm driving to accommodate Iracings physics as opposed to driving the car all out like I would in rF2 or A/C.

A favorite test of mine is to pick a car and track that is in all or most of my sims and drive it back to back in each sim. Any of the Nurburgring courses are good or Monza as they all are bumpy and have camber and off camber turns. Decide for yourself which car communicates when you test...can you tell/fee when the car is understeering or oversteering? Can you tell when you've loaded up the outside tire and need to back off or adjust your steering input? If you're in a high speed sweeper, can you feel the car go light if there is an elevation change? Being that we don't have the benefit of g forces in sim racing, I for one, need all the feedback I can get. BUT, I have buddies that don't require that. They have the ability to eyeball everything so FFB and physics aren't as important as they are to me. They're also very good with controllers so take that for what it's worth.

But let me be very clear, THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, so don't flame me bro. I am by no means a fast guy. I drive more for the challenge and enjoyment than lap times and victories. There is no right or wrong in this topic. With all of my sims, there are things that each one does better than the other. I love them all individually for their specific traits. But purely in terms of driving pleasure, devoid of graphics and sounds, PCARS (and Iracing for that matter) is lower on my scale. But when I factor in the "theater" of PCARS or the online community in Iracing, they quickly gain points as overall enjoyable experiences.

Again, sorry to be so long winded.

 

[Deleted member 113561]

I find myself catching slides that I know I wouldn't be able to in other sims, let alone, real life.

How do you know that?

In A/C, when I go into a turn, I can feel weight transfer as my wheel loads up and gets a little stiff, then the stiffness lessons as the car rotates, then it disappears once the car is straight again. PCARS has none of that. I also can feel camber changes in the roads in other sims, not just bumps, but my wheel will pull to whatever angle the road is cambered on. I get none of that in PCARS.

That is simply wrong - but it very much depends on your FFB-settings though.

A favorite test of mine is to pick a car and track that is in all or most of my sims and drive it back to back in each sim. Any of the Nurburgring courses are good or Monza as they all are bumpy and have camber and off camber turns. Decide for yourself which car communicates when you test...can you tell/fee when the car is understeering or oversteering? Can you tell when you've loaded up the outside tire and need to back off or adjust your steering input? If you're in a high speed sweeper, can you feel the car go light if there is an elevation change? Being that we don't have the benefit of g forces in sim racing, I for one, need all the feedback I can get. BUT, I have buddies that don't require that. They have the ability to eyeball everything so FFB and physics aren't as important as they are to me. They're also very good with controllers so take that for what it's worth.

I can do all that in PCARS ... a matter of FFB-settings

But let me be very clear, THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, so don't flame me bro.

Flaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame

Again, sorry to be so long winded.

No sry needed - i really like such detailed posts

 

[Deleted member 113561]

At the end of the poll, only a 1/3rd of the people think it's a true sim. More than a 1/3rd think it's a sim but in a simcade sense. The rest think it's not a sim or are undecided.

Simcade means simulation with arcade elements. The parachute/quicksand grass, by itself, puts this title into the simcade category. I can't see anybody that could argue for it being realistic for grass to slow down a car like it does in this game especially when you floor the throttle and even downshift and floor it, the cars still slow down. If RF2 or GSCE had grass like this, I would call those simcade as well.

This is not true. There is a poll which was during release with a much clearer answer on that. This one barely anyone voted on it. The following one is much more representative:

.
I agree about Grass - this was a design choice to prevent people cutting the corners / against rammers. But then you have to call rF2 & GSCE simcade cause of its bad graveltraps which are totally unrealistic.
1 thing that is not 100% realistic doesnt make a game arcade or simcade.

PCARS is a Sim.

 

[ouvert]

@CCL71 :
Agree but you can dial ffb on pC to be possibly better than AC (subjectively speaking of course) .. You can add mass transfer, you can adjust it how you like it, i like how they interpret sliding front tyres .. The way you have to do that is annoying but you can..

And I dont consider being simcade as handicap. I wouldn't like it, still play it and certainly not taking about it otherwise.
pC is doing a lot of things great, some better than other games.. Except rather slow and terrible AI, some engine sounds, some ui choices and few missing features of like to see it is not much i can say against it. Feature wise it is almost like they collect every complain player had and put it in
Things like:
- FOV sliders for every camera view (how is this not standard in every game?)
- At least limited adjustability to HUD elements positions.
- Real time delta, telemetry (we need motec support)
- weather (ok you can argue about wet road physics but even if you exclude rain still pretty impressive) and time progression
- pits (still not really standard in racing games)
- you can adjust camera to any position you can imagine
- and many more

And physics, handling, driving model... It is well balanced (ok car dependable), believable so you don't feel bad when driving, most realistic from all simcades I've played, fun to drive, you feel good about yourself while you drive yes sometimes you have those "what?!" moments but nothing really immersion braking.
Once they improve AI it is pretty much exactly what i wanted it to be.. (and saving mid race would be nice too. Or is it possible? Few days ago I didn't know it is in a way possible in rf2 and i haven't really tested endurance races in pC).

 

[Deleted member 113561]

saving mid race

Nahhh its not possible atm
Would be huge save files ... but devs are aware of that many many players want that badly.
Im pretty sure they wanna do that in PCARS 2, not sure if it comes to PCARS 1.

 

[ouvert]

This is not true. There is a poll which was during release with a much clearer answer on that. This one barely anyone voted on it. The following one is much more representative:

.

How many weeks was this pool after release? Cause of it is too soon, it could be affected by most voting being backers or as you said people not having at least 50 hours in game (which could easily be 3-4 weeks for lot of players)...
You could also tell that the second one has bigger value as it is made later, after players had time to test it and decide how they feel about it.

basicaly.. I think this pools (whether you lean towards first or second one) don't really have any value...

There must be way how to save mid race with reasonably big saves.. RF2 is doing it via replays apparently...well I'm sure they will figure it out somehow

 

[CCL71]

@neuer31
Yes, I'm using the Jack Spades files, I just don't remember which one I installed off the top of my head. I tried a couple of them until I found one that I liked. To answer your question about car control, I know I drive better in certain sims, because I drive better in certain sims. In terms of weight transfer, again I can only speak from my perspective. I'm sure their are many adjustments that can be made to improve feeling but I don't know how nor do I have the desire to spend any more time trying to find out. I've spent weeks,if not months trying to get PCARS to an acceptable level (for me). The J Spades files helped with that and now I can enjoy the game without feeling like I wasted my money. I look at it like downloading someone else's car setup...what works for them may not work for you, even if they're faster with that setup.

@ouvert
I agree for the most part man...I can tell that they have worked hard to continually improve the game. I used to get rammed left and right by the AI, now I can have enjoyable races with minimum contact. And don't get me wrong, I don't want to come off like I'm some expert, because I'm not. All I can do is tinker with settings to find a happy medium for me. Last night I was driving Snetterton 200 and was honestly challenged by the track. There are a couple of turns where you need to brake while the car is still turning. I kept losing the rear as soon as tapped the brakes...that's genuine physics for you. I knew I'd lose the rear but dammit, I couldn't figure out how to brake and be fast at the same time. Then it hit me...brake earlier and softer dummy. lol. Thats the kind of things I look for in a sim...realistic reactions from the cars. Next thing I knew I beat the AI in 3 races back to back at 80% difficulty in the FRS. So then I got the big head and bumped it up to 100% and I still beat them. So now I'm feeling like a beast and jumped in the older DTM cars and was left after one lap. lol. So apparently, the AI difficulty is different depending on the cars. Needless to say, I brought the difficulty back down.

Like I said, I enjoy them all and I don't knock any of them. But like anything else, I have my preferences as everyone has there's. Again, not right or wrong, just preference.

 

[Deleted member 113561]

So apparently, the AI difficulty is different depending on the cars.

True that, but you will find that in every Sim. Also sometimes the driver is just better with certain cars or can do better setups

@neuer31
Yes, I'm using the Jack Spades files, I just don't remember which one I installed off the top of my head. I tried a couple of them until I found one that I liked. To answer your question about car control, I know I drive better in certain sims, because I drive better in certain sims. In terms of weight transfer, again I can only speak from my perspective. I'm sure their are many adjustments that can be made to improve feeling but I don't know how nor do I have the desire to spend any more time trying to find out. I've spent weeks,if not months trying to get PCARS to an acceptable level (for me). The J Spades files helped with that and now I can enjoy the game without feeling like I wasted my money. I look at it like downloading someone else's car setup...what works for them may not work for you, even if they're faster with that setup.

So thats why you call it Simcade? Seems legit (NOT)