New Tactile Hardware 2023 / 2024

[Mr Latte]

After additional tweeking this morning, playing around with some of these effects for pedal immersion...

I really do find that the performance we can achieve with applying 2x MQB1 (Brake/Throttle) combined with 1x or 2x pairs of BDS exciters also applied directly to (foot/heel contact points) delivers a very enjoyable and high standard of tactile.

As a combination, these two types of units work so well together and will greatly improve over solutions that use HPR or other motors, as well as combos in pedals using TT25 / BST1 or other popular budget tactile.

Having the ability to apply that wide frequency range the BDS offers, across multiple effects but extend it's low bass further. This takes into account my original approach with employing "Dual Role" but now applies it in stereo, with additional channels and importantly for better experiencing a larger selection of active effects.

It would still be possible to consider a large BK or Earthquake for highlighting some key effects scenarios but that does come with a high cost these days, which only a small percentage of people might be interested in purchasing or even feel is necessary. I see more benefit for a unit(s) used in this role to be applied to a seat anyways.

The MQB1 has the advantage that we can mount it to pedals compard to Dayton 300 or BK option to consider for the extra oomph low bass utilisation. Clearly this is an advantage as it also enables direct to foot (per-pedal) effects roles like ABS and TC.


Progression / Superceded
What this current approach I have shared can achieve for pedal based immersion, has certain advantages over a much more expensive large BK/TST combo placed to a pedal region. So at the moment it's still my choice to consider, moving forward for how I want this concept to go.

Primarily as it will better support:

• Improve performance with multiple effects scenarios operating at once
• Enable specific effects layers containing low/mid/high bass sensations
• Direct sensations for all those frequencies into each foot
• Apply, advanced multi-layered effects over multiple units/channels
• Deliver (per pedal) based effects with high power & increased detailing
• Produce stereo sensations for greater sense of the cars activity
• Avoid limitations of wiring in series

 

[Mr Latte]

Another upcoming Fosi amp that will no doubt be excellent with 48V PSU
This is a monoblock only version of the previously shown V3 (excellent for stereo MQB1)
Quality build/construction with XLR connection.

Will wait for this to be benchtested but buying 2x of these instead of the V3 Stereo/Mono combo could offer additional wattage output for mid-large transducers/shakers.

 

[Mr Latte]

Also, this little audio toy I have recently ordered.

Might bring some use to offer simple A/B comparisons with:
2 x types of tactile
2 x different amps

 

[Mr Latte]

Over 3000 hours now put into ACC and messing around in different ways with tactile across the last few years.

It still fascinates me and surprises me, as today, I come across little discoveries with applying low frequencies. Just another little step, that helps towards improving and tuning how we can creatively apply effects. In particular with these, that connect the user with the onscreen action and or on-track scenarios.

The method of applying the MQ1B with the BDS, is working rather well.
My contined experimenting from using different octaves and applying certain response curves. Having these control the operation of these specific units in this combined way.

In doing so, by not just applying multi-layers to a single unti, but utulising the operational characteristics from each unit. This enables me to generate, felt sensations for key effects or scenarios, I don't believe we can achieve or get from either product on its own.

Likewise, the same applies, if we use/rely on the traditional approach and methods with, a single make/model of unit used to generate the effects.

Todays experimenting, is improving how I am applying the following effects to operate nicely together over this BDS / MQB1 combo, with each effects operation being made to complement the activity/operation of the others.

Speed Curving / Lateral G / Deceleration G / Acceleration G
What these bring, really helps get a feel of what the car is doing with the user inputs we apply.

 

[Peter Stevenson]

Hello Mr Latte, so I've decided to dip my toe into tactile. I'm coming at this from a point of close to zero with a goal of keeping things cheap and cheerful. My rig is pretty standard, 8020, throttle and brake mounted directly to 8020 profile and a regular car seat. Picture attached for reference.

After reading this thread I decided the BDS exciters would be as good a starting point as any, so from one of the sellers you linked to I purchased the last two they had in stock. I imagine the most straight forward thing to do with these is to mount them directly to the pedals. I would however like to add some under the seat itself and this is really where my current batch of questions lie.

When it comes to mounting to the seat area, what's my best option here? Single or a L/R pair? Should I go for more BDS or is it better to go with something like the ast-2b-4 or bst-1?

The seat itself has only a couple of obvious attachment points on the underside, the standard aluminium shell covering the first third of the base and then a solid bar that runs the width at the back of the base. The shell seems like a good spot to mount a stick on style mount, else where will involve some creative thinking.

Am I correct in thinking that either of those mounting positions would be preferable to using the profile that the seat rails are attached to?

And lastly whether I went with 4x exciters or 2x exciters + 2 transducers would something like the 4x50w nobsound amp you mentioned earlier in this thread be sufficient?

Anyway end of brain dump and thank you for all the information you've provided both here and in other areas of the forum, it's been very useful.

 

[Mr Latte]

Hello Mr Latte, so I've decided to dip my toe into tactile. I'm coming at this from a point of close to zero with a goal of keeping things cheap and cheerful. My rig is pretty standard, 8020, throttle and brake mounted directly to 8020 profile and a regular car seat. Picture attached for reference.

After reading this thread I decided the BDS exciters would be as good a starting point as any, so from one of the sellers you linked to I purchased the last two they had in stock. I imagine the most straight forward thing to do with these is to mount them directly to the pedals. I would however like to add some under the seat itself and this is really where my current batch of questions lie.

When it comes to mounting to the seat area, what's my best option here? Single or a L/R pair? Should I go for more BDS or is it better to go with something like the ast-2b-4 or bst-1?

The seat itself has only a couple of obvious attachment points on the underside, the standard aluminium shell covering the first third of the base and then a solid bar that runs the width at the back of the base. The shell seems like a good spot to mount a stick on style mount, else where will involve some creative thinking.

Am I correct in thinking that either of those mounting positions would be preferable to using the profile that the seat rails are attached to?

And lastly whether I went with 4x exciters or 2x exciters + 2 transducers would something like the 4x50w nobsound amp you mentioned earlier in this thread be sufficient?

Anyway end of brain dump and thank you for all the information you've provided both here and in other areas of the forum, it's been very useful.

Hi Peter, thanks for comments..

Experiencing two of these in pedals would be an excellent start, I would try to mount directly to pedal bases as it may fit to the side/back region. The other option is the pedal/plates but not sure if anyone has come up with a 3D print mount to this unit yet with various pedals.

So some d.i.y may be needed...

I would say that because the exciters are smaller in mass, you may not get the best results attaching both (L/R) units to the foot rest profile or one later for shifter?

What would improve any felt sensations is some form of metal plate to bolt the shifter/pedals to. Then isolators (stiff) between the plate and the profile, to help decouple the pedals/shifter from the main rig frame. We are simply reducing the mass of the primary surface/object the unit is vibrating and that helps increase the energy/detail and operating efficency.

For the seat, if you find you enjoy or see potential with how things go in the pedals, then it might be worth considering a more suitable seat for the future. You could yes adapt a plate under the seat or try to attach units to any metal/structural component of the seat but regardless of the tactile you go with, hardshell based seats will help to get much more out of the tactile you invest in.

Tt would be advised to consider some solution of isolation for the seat as well, to decouple it from under the seat rails and detached from the main rig. You will see many others have done similar, some use cheap options found on ebay and while those are rather basic, they will help.

You could also try a BDS unit attached under the wheel deck and certain effects I have made which are mono, could be an option. Tactile is quite a d.i.y and experimental thing...

If you would like, please do start a thread to share your journey and experiences?
Within that, I or others can offer you more assistance and I would be glad to get your impressions.

As for the amp, I do not recommend the M4 amp to power BST and the simple answer to this is that "Parts Express" that own the Dayton brand, with any of their own amp packages for the BDS they are 100w RMS models and not 100w Peak (only offering about 50w RMS). Such amps will overheat and I have read of issues from owners that bought the Slip Angle package using such combo. The exciters would be okay with the m4 or the newer 6 channel option. Those would cut down on multiple power supplies for 2 channel amps.

We can talk more on amps later, but appreciate doing this in your own thread as it may be relevant for others too....

 

[madforpancakes]

Thanks for posting about these @Mr Latte . I added a pair of BDS exciters to my pedals and they are great. Still experimenting with the simhub config but the ABS sensation is amazing. So much more direct and discernable than the BST bass shakers I have under the extrusion the pedals are mounted on to.

I designed a passable 3d printed mount for the Fanatec CSL pedals. Happy to share it if anyone on here would find it useful, the BDS unit can screw right on to it using the internal threads, but it is a bit annoying to attach the mount to the pedal.

 

[Mr Latte]

Thanks for posting about these @Mr Latte . I added a pair of BDS exciters to my pedals and they are great. Still experimenting with the simhub config but the ABS sensation is amazing. So much more direct and discernable than the BST bass shakers I have under the extrusion the pedals are mounted on to.

I designed a passable 3d printed mount for the Fanatec CSL pedals. Happy to share it if anyone on here would find it useful, the BDS unit can screw right on to it using the internal threads, but it is a bit annoying to attach the mount to the pedal.

View attachment 758351View attachment 758352

Glad you are enjoying them and confirm you feel benefits over the popular BST model...
Do you want to share the ABS settings or effect you used?

While ABS is quite limited in what we can do with it (settings options), do take into account that this approach also tries to embrace something different.

In combining other relevant effects for scenarios:
The goal is, going beyond the traditional or single channel restrictions / limitations (per foot) for pedal immersion we see most use. Regardless if it is motor based solution or transducer/shaker/exciter.

I would be interested to get your own feedback comparing another pair of BDS in the pedal platform, directly under your heel. That then gives you more options with applying the specifically made effects I was working on for these.

With 4 BDS units installed to pedal faces and heel plate do consder the following...
In the scenario of ABS activity we are decelerating, so this means we can also apply other effects to operate prior and with the ABS activity:

1) Speed
2) Ge Force load
3) Road Texture

My point is, we do not need to focus or rely soley on 1 key effects operation for scenarios.

Although, another example.....
The same can be seen with "slip effects", as often people become so focused in making or rely on "the slip effect operation" for that scenarios felt sensation.

The fact is, that "various effects" are operational in "various scenarios" including both of these.
My own approach, is to create effects that can operate better together (in common scenarios).
Yet each effect can bring its own felt character and individual responses in realtime together.

How?

Firstly by utilising the wider frequency response the BDS offers over other popular choices. Secondly, with the application of musically applied frequencies (octave bands). Lastly, by applying effects over additional units/channels for what can become a more comprehensive immersion in pedals.

This simply gives us much more scope to play around with possibilities, over what the normally done thing offers. To not be limited on a single units abilities, or having many effects set to output on that unit simultanesouly. Also to have options for different users to determine what effects they want operating to either:

A) Toes
B) Heel
C) Both
D) In Stereo
E) Or Mono


Setup Advice:
Consider selling your BST and purchase another pair of BDS.
This way, you now would have a wider usable frequency range, that can operate in dual stereo for pedals. You could then later add to this 1x 300EX or other recommended unit, for additional *(deeper) low bass extension.

Due to my approach of using musically applied frequencies. I can simply create additional effect layer elements, that generate (sub octave bass) for any of the desired effects. Consider this like a subwoofer LFE being applied. Scenarios for this might be, idle/impacts/largest bumps/max rpm for additional richness in the immersion.

This creativity and continued research means......
We can (in certain ways) actually now better what a much more expensive installation with large BK/TST combo and popular pedal options like TT25 or motor based units would achieve in pedals.

 

[NetLawMan]

Hi.
Thanks for the HW recommendations up top. I am looking for an amp recommendation for a Clark synthesis transducer (125w rms at 4 ohms). It will be strictly used for the iracing LFE channel, as well as to enhance soundtracks (engine and menu music) for other games. I would like it to be compact and to spend no more than $200. I will roll off at about 800 Hz using a mini DSP. Thanks in advance.

 

[Mr Latte]

Hi.
Thanks for the HW recommendations up top. I am looking for an amp recommendation for a Clark synthesis transducer (125w rms at 4 ohms). It will be strictly used for the iracing LFE channel, as well as to enhance soundtracks (engine and menu music) for other games. I would like it to be compact and to spend no more than $200. I will roll off at about 800 Hz using a mini DSP. Thanks in advance.

Fosi seem to be doing great work with mini amps as this thread has highlighted.
V3 and ZA3 would be worth considering but Id opt for the 48V PSU.

 

[Mr Latte]

Do take care not to over-drive the TST with amps using more than the rated wattage.
An alterternative option is just to use an amp with under 100W for added security and they can work fine with less anyways.

Previously I recommended and lots of people have went with the EPQ304 as it was only a 75W amp @4ohms. Even with those and powering upto 4x units the full volume was not needed.