PC1 Project CARS is very good SIM

[HSken]

Hey,

I have been sim racing since my 16 (now 28), TOCA Race driver, richard burns rally with my brand new Logitech Momo, I have played almost all race/rally game out there.
Rfactor, GTR 1/2, Race 07, all the colin, GT Legends, F1 2010-2011, IRacing, you name it.

I have bought rFactor 2 and CARS, and I have to say they bought feel realy good, but the looks and sound of CARS are amazing! Its almost like real.
What I also like is that every week you get a new build and its is better and better each time.

Believe me its becoming the best sim game out there ever!

If you like to drive on pc and have a good wheel just try it your self, its only 10€ for Junior memeber ship, thats cheap : http://forum.wmdportal.com/toolpacks.php

http://forum.wmdportal.com/toolpacks.php

 

[LaFail]

Inferior to what?
Are you comparing it to something else or are you seeing if project cars holds up to the definition of the word "simulation"?
I would include "simcade" in here somewhere but that is not a real word and when I search for the word "simcade" I end up back here.

Military simulations based on bullet physics and military simulations based on numbers relating to resource usage with not a drop of physics to be seen are both still simulations.

Inferior to other racing simulators of course, stop doing stupid pointless comparisons, nobody is buying it. It hurts my eyes to see such idiotic arguments from you like "simcade is a made up word, therefore pcars is not simcade" and pretty much everything else you said. Nobody ever said ETS is great at simulating grip or weight transfer, it is a good simulation because you can start a business, have a huge map, fuel consumption, switches, etc., but it's not a racing simulator.

Time is ticking and after a year cars still have the wrong amount (of every type) of grip, and the FFB is just laughable, dead in the center, no info whatsoever, NOT A HINT OF WEIGHT TRANSFER, NONE. You can just smash the brakes and they will not block or upset the car, and if they do you will not find out until it's to late, cause there's no FFB to inform you. Try to do that in rFactor and you will feel the car "dancing" beneath you, forcing you to adjust the braking pressure just a little bit every second, and make small corrections with the steering wheel, just to get it right. No, in pCARS you just smash that damn pedal and steer to the left/right at the same time and you're done.

How many times i (and many, many others) tried to bring these points up, but the usual answer was "Have faith" "Troll" "lalalala i can't hear you" "pcars is za best shut up".

You pCARS fanboys should jump right back on the WMD vagon, i'd say. You're so used to bringing up these type of arguments on your forum that you actually believe someone is going to believe it outside the "virtual office".

 

[Mark Quigley]

Inferior to other racing simulators of course, stop doing stupid pointless comparisons, nobody is buying it. It hurts my eyes to see such idiotic arguments from you like "simcade is a made up word, therefore pcars is not simcade" and pretty much everything else you said. Nobody ever said ETS is great at simulating grip or weight transfer, it is a good simulation because you can start a business, have a huge map, fuel consumption, switches, etc., but it's not a racing simulator.

Time is ticking and after a year cars still have the wrong amount (of every type) of grip, and the FFB is just laughable, dead in the center, no info whatsoever, NOT A HINT OF WEIGHT TRANSFER, NONE. You can just smash the brakes and they will not block or upset the car, and if they do you will not find out until it's to late, cause there's no FFB to inform you. Try to do that in rFactor and you will feel the car "dancing" beneath you, forcing you to adjust the braking pressure just a little bit every second, and make small corrections with the steering wheel, just to get it right. No, in pCARS you just smash that damn pedal and steer to the left/right at the same time and you're done.

How many times i (and many, many others) tried to bring these points up, but the usual answer was "Have faith" "Troll" "lalalala i can't hear you" "pcars is za best shut up".

You pCARS fanboys should jump right back on the WMD vagon, i'd say. You're so used to bringing up these type of arguments on your forum that you actually believe someone is going to believe it outside the "virtual office".

I do not think you are able to understand my point.
What is the definition of a "simulation" and does pcars fit that definition?
And no, not your definition but THE definition, also no madeup words please, thats just silly.

My username in the wmd forums is Plasticspoon.
LaFail, go check if I am this person "You're so used to bringing up these type of arguments on your forum that you actually believe someone is going to believe it outside the "virtual office"."
I think you may have made more posts here in the pcars forums than I have in the whole wmd forums, I know some who hate pcars but can not stay away from these threads.
I do not think I could be classed as a fanboy. You and others here can not be described on this forum without me getting a ban.

I would ask anyone reading this that does not have access to the wmd forums just to look at the language used in some of these replies, from people that openly do not like pcars they are very excitable and a permanent feature in almost every pcars thread on Racedepartment saying the same old BS.

 

[Mark Quigley]

Inferior to other racing simulators of course, stop doing stupid pointless comparisons, nobody is buying it. It hurts my eyes to see such idiotic arguments from you like "simcade is a made up word, therefore pcars is not simcade" and pretty much everything else you said. Nobody ever said ETS is great at simulating grip or weight transfer, it is a good simulation because you can start a business, have a huge map, fuel consumption, switches, etc., but it's not a racing simulator.

But words have meaning and you do not get to change the meaning of a word to suit your self.
ETS is a simulator "it is a good simulation because you can start a business" so it is a business simulator? map simulator? fuel consumption simulator? Either way its still a sim.

There is no such word as "simcade" and every way I try to put arcade (as in amusement arcade) and simulation together I get mighty confused.

Does "simcade" mean a coin operated amusement simulation? oh, wait, it's a madeup word so I would imagine the meaning will also be made up.
Over half a million words in the english language and some need to make new words by sticking bits of two other words together to help them communicate, and I'm the one making idiotic arguments?
Arcade games in my day were Pacman, Space Invaders, Asteroids and my favorite Salamander, pcars does not reflect arcade games in any way.

It is inferior to my favorite simulation therefore it is not a simulation is idiotic. Being inferior to say iRacing, rfactor or nkpro does not define whether or not it is a simulation.

 

[Peter]

It's all Simbin's fould they introduced " Arcade mode" in Race07 (that's a sim).

For me it's very simple, ISI games (gMotor2), Nkpro etc. are traditional sims. Shift, F1 series, R3E are Simcades.
At this moment pCars is not a sim, but if they have full working ffb/physics they can move over to the sim side of life.
I'm talking about the state of pCars now and not what it's going to be some day.

 

[LaFail]

But words have meaning and you do not get to change the meaning of a word to suit your self.
ETS is a simulator "it is a good simulation because you can start a business" so it is a business simulator? map simulator? fuel consumption simulator? Either way its still a sim.

There is no such word as "simcade" and every way I try to put arcade (as in amusement arcade) and simulation together I get mighty confused.

Does "simcade" mean a coin operated amusement simulation? oh, wait, it's a madeup word so I would imagine the meaning will also be made up.
Over half a million words in the english language and some need to make new words by sticking bits of two other words together to help them communicate, and I'm the one making idiotic arguments?
Arcade games in my day were Pacman, Space Invaders, Asteroids and my favorite Salamander, pcars does not reflect arcade games in any way.

It is inferior to my favorite simulation therefore it is not a simulation is idiotic. Being inferior to say iRacing, rfactor or nkpro does not define whether or not it is a simulation.

You're speaking nonsense again buddy, i did not invent the word simcade, and it's been around for quite a few years now. Saying that i doesn't exist again and again will not make it disappear, you know ? This isn't kindergarten anymore. (you might also need to check what a neologism is)

pCARS is a simcade, just like GT and Forza, it isn't arcade but it also not a hardcore simulator like the ones i mentioned. It's something teenagers will jump onto after finishing the latest NFS. Flashy graphics, cool cars. But lacking fidelity. That's how you define a sim, how close to the real counter-part can the car behave, this includes general handling but also all the feedback a real car would give you. This is where REAL sims excel and where pCARS sucks so much.

You can cough up definitions of simulation all day, it's useless and so stupid it makes me wonder if you're trolling or not. Is NFS a coin operated amusement arcade ? No. Then it's clearly a simulator. You see, you keep bringing idiotic arguments.

You made an account here just the defend your dear simcade, looking at your comments you only posted on the pCARS threads, mr fanboy.

 

[Mark Quigley]

First off Lafail, do not buddy me.

"In psychiatry, the term neologism is used to describe the use of words that have meaning only to the person who uses them, independent of their common meaning. This tendency is considered normal in children"

Is this what you mean because it is funny you mention kindergarten?


I have decided to create a new category of cheeses called "sweese" Sweet cheese
IMO Mascarpone does not taste like cheese, cheddar or stilton for example, nor does it have the same texture, it is more like cream in texture and taste. I would like to call it cream cheese but its already taken so am calling it sweese.
I know I am causing my own problem here by comparing Mascarpone to chedar, rather than attempting to identify the group of food mascarpone belongs too based on the definition of the word cheese, but who cares.

Mascarpone is not a cheese because it does not melt well on toast like cheddar.
Pcars is not a sim because the brakes are less realistic than (insert chosen sim here)
Mascarpone is not a cheese because I can not grate it into my pasta like parmesan.
Pcars is not a sim because steering and ffb is not up to par with (insert chosen sim here)

And it is not even released to the public.

Also Lafail, please check when I signed up, there is a lot of "something" here on Race Department and I have spent a few years figuring it out. I now know what that "something" is and was correct in showing caution posting here.
Your account is new and with you being so opinionated I have a feeling it is not your only account and you accuse me of making this account for one purpose?

 

[LaFail]

"In psychiatry, the term neologism is used to describe the use of words that have meaning only to the person who uses them, independent of their common meaning. This tendency is considered normal in children"

1. A newly coined word or expression.
2. The coining or use of new words.

You're aren't even able to use google, are you ?

I have decided to create a new category of cheeses called "sweese" Sweet cheese
IMO Mascarpone does not taste like cheese, cheddar or stilton for example, nor does it have the same texture, it is more like cream in texture and taste. I would like to call it cream cheese but its already taken so am calling it sweese.
I know I am causing my own problem here by comparing Mascarpone to chedar, rather than attempting to identify the group of food mascarpone belongs too based on the definition of the word cheese, but who cares.

Mascarpone is not a cheese because it does not melt well on toast like cheddar.
Pcars is not a sim because the brakes are less realistic than (insert chosen sim here)
Mascarpone is not a cheese because I can not grate it into my pasta like parmesan.
Pcars is not a sim because steering and ffb is not up to par with (insert chosen sim here)
?

Dear god, i pretty much got it that you don't have anything to do with sims, but this...i don't know should i laugh, or should i feel bad for you ? I guess this happens when you run out of arguments, buddy. This, uncensored, would be perfect to describe your post.

 

[Mark Quigley]

I was trying to find the meaning of simcade, google gave few results that gave meaning so this tickled me "that have meaning only to the person who uses them"
I think that relates to what is happening here and is apparently normal in children.

I am not throwing cheap insults about nor am I mentioning kindergarten or the reason for your new account or why you are posting in a section of a forum you have no interest in.

Just one look at the language you use tells quite a lot.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

I think it's only fair to properly judge the product at release. Much will change between now and then.

I agree, so please take to task those calling it a sim.

 

[Mark Quigley]

David, reading through your posts relating to project cars, it looks like you ARE judging pcars harshly long before anticipated release date and, infact, you do not agree with C3PO.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

David, reading through your posts relating to project cars, it looks like you ARE judging pcars harshly long before anticipated release date and, infact, you do not agree with C3PO.

I counter people who describe pcars as a sim, but I've never suggested pcars will be a bad racing game as I won't know till the end.
Btw, wrt definitions....simcade is language that most sim racers and more and more arcade racers understand, especially when they try a sim with a FFB wheel, also, if simcade becomes a mainstream word, it'll be added to dictionaries as that's how language works.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

. Try to do that in rFactor and you will feel the car "dancing" beneath you, forcing you to adjust the braking pressure just a little bit every second, and make small corrections with the steering wheel, just to get it right.

Atm I'm mainly driving Power and Glory, and the quality of physics and FFB on some of those cars is superb, ie, Boss 302, Falcon ATCC, Lotus Works etc, needless to say, these cars remind me of how cars drive and by all accounts reflect well with reality....can't say the same for pcars as it reminds me of a digital sponge with broken FFB.

 

[Mark Quigley]

Ok, so simcade is added to the dictionary, what would it's definition be?

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Ok, so simcade is added to the dictionary, what would it's definition be?

A mix of sim and arcade

 

[Mark Quigley]

I'm sure the Oxford English dictionary people will love you.

My whole point in this was, simulation has massive scope, to exclude pcars would be silly.
Racing games are no longer just that, they take on many forms and the word simulation is no longer descriptive enough for us, we need more holes to put things in just like the music industry.
I love my bleepy electronic music but when I first heard the term dubstep I gave out a large wtf.
Calling it dubstep does not remove it from the category of electronic dance music and there are many many different styles of electronic dance music all with their own descriptive names. Techno, D+B, Jungle, hardstep, gabber, acid etc
Same with pcars, needing to refine our descriptions and give better names like simcade does not stop it being a simulation by definition.

In its current state, what would you have called pcars 15 years ago?

 

[David Ignjatovic]

My whole point in this was, simulation has massive scope, to exclude pcars would be silly.
In its current state, what would you have called pcars 15 years ago?

The forming and usage of the term simcade is due to the recognition of a new popular gaming type, namely that which is a mix of sim and arcade.

The fact is, MOST people aren't aware of how good/precise sims are as they either don't play them or don't use a FFB wheel, but it's the fine detail and the relentless quality of the FFB that not only separates sim from simcade, but great sim cars from other sim cars.....that said, generally speaking, in most sims, all the cars are precise, but sometimes you do wonder whether one particular car should behave in such a manner.

Can't remember 15yrs ago, but who cares tbh, GTL from 2005 slays pcars for quality of FFB and driving sensation.

 

[Mark Quigley]

You don't remember Grand Prix Legends?
There are some very old games out there that are no more than a few lines on a screen that people still consider sims.
Do people here that were born at the time, still consider old Papyrus racing games as sims?
Indy 500 - The simulation I think one was called, very poor by todays standards, still a simulation tho.

 

[Chris Partridge]

I think pCARS just needs to improve the FFB and also make greater use of the camera shake settings (even ramping them up). That latter visual cue has a huge effect on the perception of how the vehicle handles and might well go a long way to improve the experiences of others. FFB is a trickier thing, but there are specific testing scenarios now being worked through and I think it'll deliver large benefits to the FFB model.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

You don't remember Grand Prix Legends?
There are some very old games out there that are no more than a few lines on a screen that people still consider sims.
Do people here that were born at the time, still consider old Papyrus racing games as sims?
Indy 500 - The simulation I think one was called, very poor by todays standards, still a simulation tho.

The oldest racing game that I can remember how it drove was CM's Toca 3, but I did have GP4 etc but really don't remember that much about them.

Also, for anyone who drives cars and watches and appreciates racing, it should be apparent that sims hit a decent standard with the release of GTR in 04/5, then we had even better games in the form of GTL and to some degree GTR2{GTL a better sim IMO}......in fact we had a real burst of them around the 05-08 period with GTR, GTL, GTR2, RACE, RACE07, rfactor1/GTR EVO.

We now have Kunos with 3 great sims on the trot{Netkar/FVA/AC} and also Reiza.....so these are the benchmarks, ie, regardless of any flaws any of these games have, they all have good FFB and physics, but to put pcars in it's current state in the same category is just plain ridiculous IMO.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

That latter visual cue has a huge effect on the perception of how the vehicle handles

True, and casual racers might enjoy it, but it can't compensate for actual FFB detail.
Drive Power and Glory and you have terrific FFB and weight transfer+ fantastic FFB indicating low speed understeer etc.