PC1 Project CARS is very good SIM

[HSken]

Hey,

I have been sim racing since my 16 (now 28), TOCA Race driver, richard burns rally with my brand new Logitech Momo, I have played almost all race/rally game out there.
Rfactor, GTR 1/2, Race 07, all the colin, GT Legends, F1 2010-2011, IRacing, you name it.

I have bought rFactor 2 and CARS, and I have to say they bought feel realy good, but the looks and sound of CARS are amazing! Its almost like real.
What I also like is that every week you get a new build and its is better and better each time.

Believe me its becoming the best sim game out there ever!

If you like to drive on pc and have a good wheel just try it your self, its only 10€ for Junior memeber ship, thats cheap : http://forum.wmdportal.com/toolpacks.php

http://forum.wmdportal.com/toolpacks.php

 

[Andy_J]

BTW, Nic is a regular in the top spots on the pCARS leaderboards, routinely holding No. 1, or close positions. I guess he's improving his skills both as a result of his real life racing and his continued sharpening of his sim skills

No. It means as a pretty well off guy and brother of Lewis, he's got more time on his hands.

 

[Eckhart von Glan]

There's also next to no weight transfer, which won't be felt by pad users, but is critical for a sim.

spot on, to me it still feels like a nice gamepad title with great visuals. I frankly cannot be bothered, I only paid 10 quid and get new stuff to try out, which I do every couple of weeks, still sounds like a more than reasonable deal to me. I am a solidly slow player, but to me the game still does not feel not like a sim at all, more Shift than SimBin. But good fun, like I said.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

the game still does not feel not like a sim at all, more Shift than SimBin. But good fun, like I said.

I agree, and can't understand how anyone can say it's comparable to this or that established sim, it really is ludicrous for anyone to say such a thing unless they're using a gamepad.

I'm glad it's now on steam, but as usual, I load the new version, drive for a while, realize it still drives like crap and uninstall till next build/s.

 

[TherealWalkman]

I know that there's no chance of getting people here to admit to players using anything other than pedals can be "sim racers".

Let me ask you: would you trust a pilot who was trained on a gamepad to fly a real aeroplane?
I don´t.

 

[Peter]

Let me ask you: would you trust a pilot who was trained on a gamepad to fly a real aeroplane?
I don´t.

It's not only that, but how can somebody with buttons and ABS give (paid) feedback for wheel and pedal users.

 

[Chronus]

It's n
It's not only that, but how can somebody with buttons and ABS give (paid) feedback for wheel and pedal users.

He can't, and quite probably he isn't supposed to anyway. More than 90% of the target audience for PD's GT, Forza, Shift and C.A.R.S. comes from the "casual gamers" side; statistics show that way over 90% of people use gamepads, so that is what his feedback is good for.

Something else to consider:

people with some form of disability are probably limited to gamepads even if they really like simracing. So, to be fair, in his case, he may just be an actual simracer with relevant restrictions imposed upon him by the type of controller he can use. His feedback is, however, severely limited by/to that type of controller. Pretending this is not so is just one more stunt by those who opportunistically choose what is important in a sim (and only because there's something at stake for them: $$$).

 

[myvracelog]

I know TONS of people that race rfactor 1 with d-pads. Also there are a lot of people playing Iracing with D-pads as they even advertised it is D pad friendly.

So this myth that only d pad / xbox players play PD's GT, Forza, Shift and C.A.R.S. is FALSE.

For the record I can easily state RF1 and RF2 and Nascar 2003 all considered top Sims
have major arcade facets. MAX aids, spin control, traction control, damage control abs on and on, and Nascar 2003 has a entire arcade mod inside the game itself without even going into aids or no aids. I also knew guys in N2003 that only raced infinion and watkins glen and used a keybord and would regularly post fastest times, so saying a guy with a keyboard can't race in a excellent mannor is also FALSE.

So just because a game/sim has Arcade features does not mean it is an arcade game at all.

))))))))))

 

[LaFail]

So just because a game/sim has Arcade features does not mean it is an arcade game at all.

))))))))))

It's called simcade, and my little brother will love playing it with a joystick on the ps3. He won't have to deal with the shitty FFB hehe.

 

[TherealWalkman]

Let me ask you: would you trust a pilot who was trained on a gamepad to fly a real aeroplane?
I don´t.

 

[traind]

people with some form of disability are probably limited to gamepads even if they really like simracing. So, to be fair, in his case, he may just be an actual simracer with relevant restrictions imposed upon him by the type of controller he can use. His feedback is, however, severely limited by/to that type of controller. Pretending this is not so is just one more stunt by those who opportunistically choose what is important in a sim (and only because there's something at stake for them: $$$).

First, a sincere thank you for the first couple of sentences there. That is an inclusive statement and very much needed in this thread. I would add to it the many players who may not have funds for a wheel or are happy with a pad and haven't ever had the chance to try a wheel and thus won't make the financial commitment sight unseen. I find no need to dismiss people based on their preferences in a game or sim title or their preferences in controllers for that matter. Yet I read many comments that are doing just that here at Race Department. Not from the majority, but not limited to just one or two people either.

Second, the comment on "opportunistically choose what is important in a sim" leaps out at me. I think many people posting here (on both sides of arguments) do that frequently. Including a number in this thread. Perhaps I would change the word opportunistically to arbitrarily. "This title isn't a sim" "That title isn't a sim" "you like simcade" "you're ridiculous if you think this is a sim" "only titles I like are sims". All based upon an arbitrary set of criteria that, are starting to appear to me at least, to be pointed at excluding the opinions of others and belittling their experience.

I am trying to figure out why but haven't quite hit on a formula yet. Just to be argumentative? Schoolyard bully syndrome? Overly passionate about their hobby? Feeling wronged by some game previously bought and taking it out here? Wanting to feel like they are in an elite club, like racing drivers, because they play the right title? Or maybe just trying to avoid admitting to themselves that their hobby is, in the end, "just" playing video games?

Defining a sim is an interesting conversation-- I get that. We're all interested in realistic titles. But all attempts at defining are, in the end, arbitrary. The slippery slope is right there and you could easily make the argument that none of these titles are really trying to simulate real racing. After all, there are things they could be doing that they are not...like a financial penalty for wrecking a virtual car. How would you like to pay for a whole new car in iRacing every time you wrecked, in either practice or a race? Or we could go down the slippery slope a little further and say unless you have a motion set-up it isn't a sim. Or unless you have pedals with a load cell you aren't a simracer because logitech or thrustmaster brakes do not work as brakes do in real life.

See what I mean? Anyone can pick any point on that continuum and claim your favorite sim is not really a sim at all either because of the design of it or because of the equipment you use to play it. And that is exactly what is happening here from a number of people posting. It's just that the arbitrary point you are picking suits you.

Why not try to understand the other person's opinion a bit more fully rather than attacking it? Why not take a second to adjust your comment slightly to be a bit more inclusive? Why not just say I don't like this feature of that title instead of labeling the whole thing negatively? Why not try to simulate a healthy community here?

 

[David Ignjatovic]

I am trying to figure out why but haven't quite hit on a formula yet. Just to be argumentative? Schoolyard bully syndrome? Overly passionate about their hobby? Feeling wronged by some game previously bought and taking it out here? Wanting to feel like they are in an elite club, like racing drivers, because they play the right title? Or maybe just trying to avoid admitting to themselves that their hobby is, in the end, "just" playing video games?

It could also be that some of us drive real cars, have an interest in real cars and race cars and KNOW the difference between sim and simcade, now that hardly means everyone with any knowledge of cars must agree, but two criteria strike me as critical....

1...it strongly reminds you of driving a car vs a video game
2...that the combo of physics/FFB and steering precision are at a high level.

pcars fails by both criteria, especially on smooth fulltime FFB.

Bottom line is that pcars FFB sux atm, and its also an outrageous gripfest, brakemash fest at times, especially around the 2nd sector of bathurst.

I no longer believe that pcars will be a sim, {they've had long enough}, but actually no longer care either, but I do care that the term sim isn't hijacked for marketing purposes, so that's why I speak my mind on this issue.

 

[Mark Quigley]

It could also be that some of us drive real cars, have an interest in real cars and race cars and KNOW the difference between sim and simcade, now that hardly means everyone with any knowledge of cars must agree, but two criteria strike me as critical....

1...it strongly reminds you of driving a car vs a video game
2...that the combo of physics/FFB and steering precision are at a high level.

pcars fails by both criteria, especially on smooth fulltime FFB.

Bottom line is that pcars FFB sux atm, and its also an outrageous gripfest, brakemash fest at times, especially around the 2nd sector of bathurst.

I no longer believe that pcars will be a sim, {they've had long enough}, but actually no longer care either, but I do care that the term sim isn't hijacked for marketing purposes, so that's why I speak my mind on this issue.

I think most here drive and have an interest real cars, some may even race.
Most know what a sim is but I, personally am having problems with "simcade".
I know what an arcade game is and also know what a sim is but when I combine the two things I do not come up with pcars. Simcade is a made up term therefore I do not think many know the difference between a sim and a made up, imaginary thing.

Point 1. yes, it does.
Point 2 yes, it is.

I agree, ffb and steering fidelity are dodgy but I have a feeling this is because of performance issues and not a issue with the game having low steering precision. Any lag, even normal everyday latency can have a massive impact on a a sims performance. Remember nKpro? magic offline, unplayable online.
Infact, the opposite may be true, trying so hard to up the fidelity of the whole experience that they are having problems getting it all working together. Who knows.

In regard to them {they've had long enough} , If it were done behind closed doors you would no nothing about the progress and it would be done when its done which may be at least 12 months away. I think you are being, at best, premature.

I do not often go spinning off the road in a ball of fire when I go out for a hoon in a real car, nor do I lock the brakes every time I overcommit to a corner. My mother can drive a 440 bhp impreza in the wet and not die. Gripfest, brakemash fest?

 

[David Ignjatovic]

ISimcade is a made up term therefore I do not think many know the difference between a sim and a made up, imaginary thing.

. My mother can drive a 440 bhp impreza in the wet and not die. Gripfest, brakemash fest?

re-Simcade, I think it's more the case that many don't like the term as it best describes the game they favour.

Driving a car at road going speeds is incredibly easy, even in the wet, so I'd be surprised if even your grandmother couldn't do the same, lol.

Anyway, the crux of the matter is that you have faith and I'm an atheist.

 

[traind]

pcars isn't done yet and it also isn't perfect... those are self evident.

But it is not a "gripfest" across the board, not even close. Try the Hyuara, SLS, 98T, 49, atom v8 etc, etc. They have plenty of power on & lift throttle oversteer. Cars like the 78, which definitely did have too much grip, now are more nicely balanced due to recent adjustments so you will have the back end come around if not careful. Yes, tire changes build to build shift the balance between grip and too little but that is the process of getting it right.

And "brakefest"-- well maybe a few cars are at their current lack of tune... but the reality is exactly the opposite in all recent builds for many of the cars. Brake lock up and subsequent loss of stability (really very uncontrollable) is actually way too much on many of the cars. Many people have complained about this including Collins.

David...this makes me think you haven't driven it any time in the last few months or, perhaps you only tried one or two cars when you did. Your observations are significantly off the mark from the current status, except perhaps your complaints of the FFB. That is changing lately as well but I find wide variance in personal taste for FFB so I can't argue with your reaction about it.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

David...this makes me think you haven't driven it any time in the last few months.

Don't you guys ever tire of saying this?
It's on steam, it dls in a few hrs.

 

[traind]

Don't you guys ever tire of saying this?
It's on steam, it dls in a few hrs.

David-- your observations in the post above are not in synch with the current builds.Thus the doubt you have really spent significant time with it any time recently unless you only try one or two underdeveloped cars.

I don't think project cars is perfect and fully admit it has a ways to go regarding several features to match the best of other titles in those same features. But pcars a gripfest? That is just not the case with the majority of the cars and hasn't been for months as they are playing with the tire model.

 

[Mark Quigley]

I'm looking at what people call a simulation and I see no reason why pcars is not a sim.
Look at euro truck simulator, I'm sure everyone agrees it is a truck simulation game, do the brakes or grip levels match reality, no, not really.
A quote from the military sim wiki "Simulations exist in many different forms, with varying degrees of realism".

The term "sim" has not been hijacked for marketing purposes by project cars and is an accurate description.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

The term "sim" has not been hijacked for marketing purposes by project cars and is an accurate description.

In your opinion, but the game lacks FFB detail, lacks weight transfer and is just plain boring to drive.
For me and others it's just another simcade title, and generally speaking most people just accept that and play the game, but for marketing purposes pcars boosters want to hijack the term despite it's inferior status.

 

[Mark Quigley]

Inferior to what?
Are you comparing it to something else or are you seeing if project cars holds up to the definition of the word "simulation"?
I would include "simcade" in here somewhere but that is not a real word and when I search for the word "simcade" I end up back here.

Military simulations based on bullet physics and military simulations based on numbers relating to resource usage with not a drop of physics to be seen are both still simulations.

 

[Chris Partridge]

I think it's only fair to properly judge the product at release. Much will change between now and then.