PC1 Reaction to the newer builds

[Randy Winston]

I have been avoiding pCARS for a while, because of problems with input lag and laggy graphics at the lowest settings. I decided to give it another try this evening as I had nothing to do. I'm glad I did, as it is massively improved since I last tried it a couple of months ago. I think some fine tuning with regards to my ffb settings and this could be great fun. I'm looking forward to this game, mostly on the consoles, because if there isn't going to be modding, I'd rather have it on there anyway. So to the detractors, I urge you to give it another shot. They are getting there.

 

[traind]

For those who do like it in this thread, all I can say is I'm sorry and hope you take it with a grain of salt. I will not stand for promises SMS have given us about Sim racing from Shift 1 on and be lied to and I will NEVER support them again..

It sounds like sms came to your house and shot your dog.

 

[traind]

Basically the problems seems to be that many people just cannot handle seeing software in development and don't understand the development cycle.
.

I think this is true. Most of our experience in this area is with demos and betas much closer to completion and thus many people have expectations that are significantly off target with pcars at this stage. Most game companies don't let anyone outside the team play titles in alpha... journalists included.

Another confounding factor is the graphics in pcars are so good that many people expect the rest of the code to be as far along as the graphics. It isn't, precisely because they are starting over on so many things vs. the EA driven shift titles.

That doesn't mean pcars will meet everyone's needs...even when it is done next year. Much of how we perceive sims is subjective thus you have fans of one sim over another as you do in all forms of entertainment. Unfortunately, many people proclaim their preferences as fact instead of personal opinion.

 

[traind]

I'm thinking that b272 is the best yet, as all round, some of the cars{L78/DTM} drive well for a simcade, but when I did my usual Zonda vs Zonda comparison between pcars and Simbin GT power pack, the pcars version still feels centre mounted[vs the more independent feel of Simbin zonda], and lacks the fidelity on the front end and braking.

Also, unless I'm mistaken, the FFB doesn't seem to load much around corners and such, it is well weighted as you exit the pits, but seems to maintain that load, but Simbin does a great job a dialing in weight transfer via FFB loading, and that's on medium FFB settings.

I've never particularly liked the rear grip levels of simbin Z, but pcars is strange, it feels like both rear wheels are stuck to the road, and if you try and accelerate, the whole rear end almost bounces across the track vs a progressive and more independent feeling slide from even the simbin z which has ordinary rear grip behaviour IMO.

Given that rf2's best cars and GSC 2012 tintops are the no1 sims IMO, we can see the problem pcars has from a sim POV if even an ordinary sim car from older GTR evo can still expose many weaknesses in the physics and FFB.

Ok, this is supposedly the console physics/FFB, fair enough, I can wait, especially if things do improve and the BMW's and Fords are amongst those improvements, however, I thought it pertinent to mention my views as people at WMD and elsewhere are still saying silly things like pcars Lotus is comparable to rf2's F1's......but this is simply an outrageous amount of nonsense.

I don't like rf2'S 60F1, I think it's a crazed machine, but it still has a very detailed front end, though it's prone to obscene amounts of understeer in general and in comparison to the magnificent F2{probably the best sim car in existence}, it still has excellent brakes etc, but IMO, doesn't properly transmit power to the chassis.

Between rf2's F2/3/F3.5, BT20, GSC 2012 Camaro, F1 modern, V8SC, and many cars in the simbin range, we have numerous benchmarks to compare any racing game/sim to.
That said, pcars precision with my G27 is close to perfect, though clearly, FFB isn't finished, and they claim wide ranging changes are still on the way.

I appreciate that you are getting more balanced in your assessments David.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

I appreciate that you are getting more balanced in your assessments David.

I wasn't ever off balance champ.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Unfortunately, many people proclaim their preferences as fact instead of personal opinion.

The cars are still center sprung, and I'm not sure if you saw that vid where even the loss of a rear wing didn't cause the Formula B to spin.

 

[Kazumi]

But that's normal, wing loss and loss of aerodynamics (downforce and/or drag) are independent.

Didn't even expected loss of downforce watching that video

 

[DrJustice]

I tried to explain that the damage model is incomplete a few postings back. It's in development, and the physics will of course be affected as one would expect in a racing simulation/game.

 

[Farrell Hudjik]

It sounds like sms came to your house and shot your dog.

Oh that's was a detrimental to my health shot there son. No I just play racing SIMULATORS. Simcades like I know Pcars will be will be great for my bloopers section of my page. I also enjoy being able to drift a Formula B car around the track like a full blown drift car, and I enjoy the Pagani Zonda R feeling more like it's got sandpaper on it's tires and driving on a track with velcro on it for the amazing grip I get..

It is a definately gonna be up for best arcade racer for 2013. Be proud. Be very proud. anymore things I sound like to you that you'd like to be given a seat for?

 

[Ryan Vickery]

Why can't these threads go anywhere without people getting angry? I'm a fan of the game Project CARS, I try to keep calm and think/post rationally while thinking about all the other great sims out there and trying to compare them fairly.

Then someone comes in who doesn't like pCARS and just starts to throw turd around. I mean it is not even remotely constructive or well thought out and is incredibly one sided, as if the posters have a personal agenda against the game, posting without looking at all the facts, choosing them carefully to use as ammunition.

It really isnt a healthy discussion when it goes like that, I fully understand both the strengths and weakpoints of pCARS at the moment and I can fully understand where it could be in a year, and where it is right now compared to other sims. I can also fully understand all the same aspects about the other sims and always try to take those factors into consideration before posting with emotion (like the above guy).

I don't understand why people have this tendancy to cling to one small negative aspect to blow out of proportion, whilst then ignoring all the other factors and important details completely. Following that you round it up by giving the game the titles like "simcade/arcade" to give fuel to an aggressive response from the people you're posting to.



The sad thing is that this thread isn't about discussing the good or bad points of the game anymore, it has become about personal agenda's against the developers and the game itself, using small factors and isolated situations as ammunition to devalue or discredit the quality of the game.



TL;DR version - It's ok to not like the game, but why does it have to be so personal, so emotional, so aggressive and so lacking in any facts or constructive thoughts? All I see on this forum is turd throwing contests about this game, and it's only this forum.

 

[Mapu]

It only shows how controversial this thing called pcars is. There never was such a heated debate among racing sims before mediocre games made it into this niche and introduced a completely different audience, mostly having a lower level of expectations than the standards of racing sims do meet today.

Shiny graphics try to hide a weak or faulty engine, that's my opinion on pcars.

You do not fully understand what sim racing is all about and what it includes. Otherwise your message would have been different than this: http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/reaction-to-the-newer-builds.52765/page-9#post-1218499

 

[Ryan Vickery]

It only shows how controversial this thing called pcars is. There never was such a heated debate among racing sims before mediocre games made it into this niche and introduced a completely different audience, mostly having a lower level of expectations than the standards of racing sims do meet today.

Shiny graphics try to hide a weak or faulty engine, that's my opinion on pcars.

You do not fully understand what sim racing is all about and what it includes. Otherwise your message would have been different than this: http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/reaction-to-the-newer-builds.52765/page-9#post-1218499

Elaborate, explain what aspects I don't understand about sim racing, or what aspects I dont understand from your point of view. If you just leave me with something so ambiguous as that then I will just sit here with question marks.

Throw some facts (or atleast a clear to understand opinion) my way to support why/how the engine is faulty, or why the standard is lower? The thing is, the whole thing is up for mostly interpretation when it comes to arguements like this. Just as I said in my post, the same could be said for all of those other sims.

The hard part is that for me to make my arguement understandable to a wide audience I would have to spend a lot of time and work documenting and exploring all the sims and putting in a massive ammount of effort just to make a point on a forum, which I don't really think is worth my time.

In the same manner, nobody is willing to put in any real effort to put a good easy to understand arguement about the negative points they see in Project Cars. It is mostly emotionally triggered posts containing little substance with the intention of simply discrediting the game.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

The thing is, the whole thing is up for mostly interpretation when it comes to arguements like this. .

Maybe, it depends on your equipment, your skill level and your attention to detail{some not keen to know}, but I have a popular G27, and some of the cars are extremely good simcade cars, most of my friends would love driving the Audi at Bathurst, but for someone used to sims, pcars has a long way to go.

The fact is pcars is unfinished, and in it's current state it doesn't feel like a typical sim, but I sure hope it does become one, if it can just outdo GTR2 I know I'd lap Bathurst 1000's of times in the Fords and BM's.

As I've said, I'm prepared to wait for updates, but I don't want to be told to shut up about it's state.

SMS have to prove they can actually build a good racing game{I have no idea of what the Ferrari game's like, but it wasn't well received by anyone}

 

[Mapu]

I will repeat myself for Ryan but wonder if he read and understood what I wrote in the message from which this quote is from.

Yes pcars is still not ready, just like criticizing its current status, often frowned upon, it is not appropriate to promote it as something what it may or may not become when it is released. Both strings of the discussion are run on the same level and [in the] sphere.

I'm tired of this, and just like you I'm not willing to add my arguments anymore because they won't be read and considered or even change opinions. At least not here. Let's have another ale, or do you prefer snaps?

 

[Nathan Robinson]

Maybe, it depends on your equipment, your skill level and your attention to detail{some not keen to know}, but I have a popular G27, and some of the cars are extremely good simcade cars, most of my friends would love driving the Audi at Bathurst, but for someone used to sims, pcars has a long way to go.

The fact is pcars is unfinished, and in it's current state it doesn't feel like a typical sim, but I sure hope it does become one, if it can just outdo GTR2 I know I'd lap Bathurst 1000's of times in the Fords and BM's.

As I've said, I'm prepared to wait for updates, but I don't want to be told to shut up about it's state.

SMS have to prove they can actually build a good racing game{I have no idea of what the Ferrari game's like, but it wasn't well received by anyone}

I agree with a lot of what you say here david. I feel it drives much better than six months ago and feel its showing more promise than not. At least i can point the cars where i want them to go now. Some cars like the caterham will even break traction under acceleration. People will never agree with each other tho because they base things off their own experiences. I have driven many sims and while pcars may have a bit much grip, its giving me some enjoyment and hopefully that will translate into multiplayer. Some members here are so hardheaded about sms "lying" to them that they cant see past it. Thats fine but we've all gotta get over it and move on eventually.

 

[Nathan Robinson]

Thank you ryan for your sensible posts. Unfortunately im not good with words and come off like an asshole but you have a way of expressing the same views as me without being a dick. Can i hire you for a translator?

 

[David Ignjatovic]

I. Some members here are so hardheaded about sms "lying" to them that they cant see past it. Thats fine but we've all gotta get over it and move on eventually.

True, but each in their own time.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

But that's normal, wing loss and loss of aerodynamics (downforce and/or drag) are independent.

Didn't even expected loss of downforce watching that video

I'm not sure what you're saying, but generally speaking when high downforce owers loose their rear wing, they spin as the speed builds and load increases.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

I Some members here are so hardheaded about sms "lying" to them .

It's also some bizarre comments from some WMD members suggesting from video footage alone, that pcars best cars drive better than AC.

 

[Henk van der Meulen]

It's also some bizarre comments from some WMD members suggesting from video footage alone, that pcars best cars drive better than AC.

LOL don't forget the AC fans proclaiming it's the best thing since sliced bread.

The playing field has been stagnant for ages.
Time for something really, really groundbreaking.

Get away from brush models for tyres or do away with the dome projection used for the graphics so the world view isn't all distorted when looking to the side etc.

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

I don't understand why people can't just enjoy the fact that we seem to be getting several new good looking sims/games the next year or so.