Slide control

[Terry Rock]

I think Kunos have...and are continuing to do a remarkable job with ACC.
It is my 'go-to' title for all things racing.
I have though noticed many of the car's exhibit extreme difficulty in response to oversteer correction.
I've corrected lots of real and virtual OS in cars and karts over the years.
Anything more than a slight oversteer 'wiggle' in ACC, seems to be non-responsive to opposite lock inputs... until the very last moment.
At that point it goes wildly opposite...mostly resulting in an actual loss of control.
Anybody else notice this phenomenon?
AMS2 and AC feel and respond quite a bit more natural in this regard.

 

[Breakdown81]

I think Kunos have...and are continuing to do a remarkable job with ACC.
It is my 'go-to' title for all things racing.
I have though noticed many of the car's exhibit extreme difficulty in response to oversteer correction.
I've corrected lots of real and virtual OS in cars and karts over the years.
Anything more than a slight oversteer 'wiggle' in ACC, seems to be non-responsive to opposite lock inputs... until the very last moment.
At that point it goes wildly opposite...mostly resulting in an actual loss of control.
Anybody else notice this phenomenon?
AMS2 and AC feel and respond quite a bit more natural in this regard.

I've recovered from some very bad oversteer situations and binned it completely in others. I find the ability to correct increases the more familiar with a chassis you become. For instance, I've settled into maining the 2018 GTR for the time being and have been able to rapidly become accustomed to it's quirks. I am comfortable enough with the car now that I am predictive about when it will oversteer based on my input chain, so I am ready with counter-steer if needed. But it's important to remember that counter-steer isn't your only tool, brakes and gears are available as well, and brake bias. However the goal is to eliminate these kinds of situations. I suggest you ease back a bit and move to a manageable pace. Oversteer really does a number on the compound and just makes you lose time.

 

[Terry Rock]

I've recovered from some very bad oversteer situations and binned it completely in others. I find the ability to correct increases the more familiar with a chassis you become. For instance, I've settled into maining the 2018 GTR for the time being and have been able to rapidly become accustomed to it's quirks. I am comfortable enough with the car now that I am predictive about when it will oversteer based on my input chain, so I am ready with counter-steer if needed. But it's important to remember that counter-steer isn't your only tool, brakes and gears are available as well, and brake bias. However the goal is to eliminate these kinds of situations. I suggest you ease back a bit and move to a manageable pace. Oversteer really does a number on the compound and just makes you lose time.

I do get your point on managing oversteer.
They're all valid as well.
I've also corrected some lurid slides over the years...on all kinds of tarmac.
I started my real motorsports career in karting before moving to rally cars.
In both of those, you spend a large percentage 'sideways'.
I've caught and corrected lots of slides in ACC but on many occasions the car did not respond immediately to inputs despite low speeds.
It could be a latency issue. I'll have to investigate more.
I'll need to go back and identify which cars at which tracks.

 

[Neilski]

It could be a latency issue. I'll have to investigate more.

Yes, worth checking that, e.g. if you have any kind of slow-motion capture on a phone or other camera (even 120fps could give you a pretty clear indication of the lag between real and virtual steering wheel).

 

[Terry Rock]

Wow!
Just came across this video a few minutes ago.
Go to 12:49
He just experienced the exact thing I described in this thread.
The input demonstration he does at the beginning of the video to highlight latency has to be a contributor.
You don't immediately get a response to oversteer correction.

 

[race_flo]

I saw the video from Niels but I do not know if his assumptions are correct here.
For sure, you can see a lag between the steering input and the visual representation in the simulator. But I think the physics simulation is running much faster than the visual representation. Meens the software is calculating the physics, based on you input, much more often than the images is rendered. That meens you have a visual lag but not a physical leg (on you ffb wheel).
That is my understanding of the simulation.

 

[Terry Rock]

I saw the video from Niels but I do not know if his assumptions are correct here.
For sure, you can see a lag between the steering input and the visual representation in the simulator. But I think the physics simulation is running much faster than the visual representation. Meens the software is calculating the physics, based on you input, much more often than the images is rendered. That meens you have a visual lag but not a physical leg (on you ffb wheel).
That is my understanding of the simulation.

I have to respectfully disagree.
After switching to a 144Hz monitor the slide control got way better.
We're only talking micro-fractions of time as demonstrated in the video over the 60 Hz panel.
The ever-so-slight advance in the car's response to input information, suggest lag is synchronous with virtual steering wheel input...not physics.
The benefit of the faster panel means the response time of the car got better since I was able to faster react. It was simply a by-product of the...a good one none the less.
That in essence puts the handling even closer to the physics component.

 

[race_flo]

ok, interesting. I can not validate this.
That was my understanding after watching one of the Aris videos. Therefore I ignored my framerate ... maybe until now

 

[Kurupt CDN]

Wow!
Just came across this video a few minutes ago.
Go to 12:49
He just experienced the exact thing I described in this thread.
The input demonstration he does at the beginning of the video to highlight latency has to be a contributor.
You don't immediately get a response to oversteer correction.

Thanks for posting this it answers alot of things!

I just started racing ACC this past week and for the most part really enjoying it.
First thing I noticed was the slides and lack of information through the ffb leaving you guessing on what to do.

Lift off over steer was another and I was finding myself doing the same as him after awhile.

Niels is using a high end DD wheel while I have TM TX so he's getting alot more detail in ffb.
I've struggled trying to find a good adhesive tire to road feel. The only time I've felt tire grip is under heavy braking.

On the TX the ffb in ACC feels more like bungy cord with bumps...always there tightens when entering a corner, tightens more throughout the corner, slightly lessen with understeer than releases once traction is lost leaving you guessing on what to do due to the lack of info.
In general I've found I've had to rely on audio and bass shakers/Simhud to make up for what the wheel is not telling me.

I've also noticed a few instances where the ffb or physics just don't register any feedback at all.
The little yellow and black sausage kerbs to prevent corner cutting and running wide. I can run two tires over them and not get any feedback...if I drive the entire car/4wheels visually and audio all hell breaks lose like I'd expect but the ffb only feels like a slightly stronger road bump and info through the wheel is telling me the car is hardly unsettled tho my eyes and ears are telling me differently.
In fairness I have experienced this on the madness engine aswell tho the effect is present in iracing, AMS & RF2.

Another instance @ zolder t3 I believe it is, the fast right with the sand trap to the left...I've run wide several times and put two wheels in the sand and the ffb tells me that I am still on tarmac, smooth no pulling or rough feeling....all 4 wheels in the trap and I start to get feedback telling me I am on rough terrain.
I've noticed this running wide at several tracks.
Also the outside curb coming out of the second last turn at nurburg gp running into the last turn.... visually I see a chambered cuub, when I drive up and along it there is no effect or intial force detailing it's chambered the ffb tells me it's still flat and I just hear the audio zing of flat curbs in the game.

The 60hrz could be part of the issue. I run in VR normally @90hrz in other games but Unreal engine is so graphically taxing and blurry that I've had to lower to 60hrz just to get some clarity and make it acceptable.

Few other things....
Is there a FFB clipping meter or tool/app?
How would I set a 5% dead zone on my csl elite load cell brake?
It seems to be sticking and triggering the brake meter in the first 2% input and I tend to rest my foot on it.
Where would I get the motion App he mentioned at the beginning of the video and would it work in VR?

Thrustmaster TX servo base with Sparco Rally rim

TM Profile
900 degrees
75/100/100/100/100

In-game settings
900 degrees
FFB 65-85% depending on car and really need a per car ffb setting added to the game or per car ffb multiplier
Min ffb 2%
Dynamic dampening 100%
Road bumps 10%

 

[eco2006]

 

[Taranta]

and see Jardier video ........ better then Niels at home video .....

 

[Taranta]

I saw the video from Niels but I do not know if his assumptions are correct here.
For sure, you can see a lag between the steering input and the visual representation in the simulator. But I think the physics simulation is running much faster than the visual representation. Meens the software is calculating the physics, based on you input, much more often than the images is rendered. That meens you have a visual lag but not a physical leg (on you ffb wheel).
That is my understanding of the simulation.

I have never looked at the steering wheel while drifto / dorifto in real life

 

[Kurupt CDN]

I've gone through a good portion of the cars now and have come to a reasonable conclusion in regards to my previous comment on slides.

My favorite car atm is the mcleran 720s using the same ffb settings as I did with the cars I had no feeling with during spins or slides, the 720s feels fantastic!
I can tell when the car is getting lose and can tell what the tires are doing and actually have a tire to road feel.

So it's one of two things, like every game some cars feel better than others and need some tweaks or Kunos need to add a per car ffb multiplier and ffb save option per car feature to dial in each car without going in and out the ffb menus when switching cars.

Personally I'd like to see both added
Along with some more menu details regarding tuning options so I don't have to stop during a session to Google what that setting does.
Ex. Engine mapping, all the cars are different...the 720s has 12 options!
Some have quali power yet without googling you'd never know.
Optimal tire range also makes a massive difference 28 psi dry and 30 wet.

Overall the game could have a good menu overhaul to make it more user friendly.

 

[Kurupt CDN]

and see Jardier video ........ better then Niels at home video .....

It's a good tutorial on catching drifts yes but I feel your missing the point of niels comment, he was saying that the car wasn't giving him any feedback after the wheel tells him it's breaking lose where he is than left guessing. He also says he doesn't think it's right or wrong either as he was missing more data to compare.

Like I said in my latest comment it could be merely the different ffb strengths between cars not set right?
But I am no physics guru lol

In the real world you have forces and the seat of the pants feel which you don't have in games.

Overall a great game, but like every title has tons of room for improvement.

 

[Gevatter]

Like I said in my latest comment it could be merely the different ffb strengths between cars not set right?

In the cars with less FFB feel you could try to use a bit higher caster setting. More caster usually makes the steering heavier, which in turn usually helps with FFB feel.

 

[gwr3850]

I've had some hairy moments myself in the Bentley, sometimes the ones on curbs or overruns, a quick flick of opposite lock then central saves them. Then tank slapper slides seem hit and miss to catch. I tend to save them but then the car snaps the other way. But then yesterday I was full sliding on the grass and the gravel at the Lesmos at. Monza, kept the power on which seems backwards to do in a RWD car then just carried on straight bizarre.

My strangest save and most fulfilling was a 4 wheel drift over the crest at eau rouge. Never know how I managed that