So, what is the story regarding F2004 skinning limitations?

I proposed an F2004 league to a league administrator, and he said we can't because we're not allowed to skin the cars - that's why there isn't even a template for the car - besides the 3rd party one, which seems to be "illegal" in some way, judging by the text from the author.

Also, reading the text on this 3rd party template for the car seems pretty ominous:
NOTE : in case if sharing the templates of this car is forbidden, staffs/Kunos are allowed to take this down. as the car probably might not intended/allowed to be skinned due to licensing issue(s).

So, what is this based on? Why can't we skin a car like this for league use?
 
I know in the past Ferrari has been very strict with livery work on their cars.

In Test Drive Unlimited, for instance, you could only paint a Ferrari in one of its factory colours. There's another racing sim, I can't remember which one, which didn't allow any custom livery on any Ferrari at all.

Other marques have done this in the past, too. The McLaren 650S GT3 doesn't support custom liveries in ProjectCARS IIRC, and that was mandated by McLaren.

In the end, the license holder is fully within their rights to forbid such things. It's their property. I kind of understand the decision, while I disagree with it. What I don't understand is the inconsistency. Why McLaren made that decision for pCARS but not for AC, iRacing, Forza or Gran Turismo is what bothers me most.
 
I think your league admin needs to grow some balls. Nobody is going to stop a league from using custom skins even on the F2004.

Look, I agree with you, but on the other hand the league organiser is trying to stay 100% legal and above board, so I respect that.

I've seen other leagues doing skinning for this car, so it seems legal.

But there must be a reason they didn't include a template for the Ferrari F1 cars?
 
Look, I agree with you, but on the other hand the league organiser is trying to stay 100% legal and above board, so I respect that.

I've seen other leagues doing skinning for this car, so it seems legal.

But there must be a reason they didn't include a template for the Ferrari F1 cars?
I'm sure they don't want people to skin it just like they "restricted" its use against other cars besides other Ferraris. But in the end nothing is stopping you from skinning the car and nobody is going to care one bit about it in a league.
 
I think your league admin needs to grow some balls. Nobody is going to stop a league from using custom skins even on the F2004.
Some league admins prefer to avoid cease and desist letters, especially when renting servers. It can attract negative attention.
If someone ripped one of your mods without permission and used it in an online league you wouldn't be too happy I'd imagine.
 
Some league admins prefer to avoid cease and desist letters, especially when renting servers. It can attract negative attention.
If someone ripped one of your mods without permission and used it in an online league you wouldn't be too happy I'd imagine.
That comparison doesn't really hold up in my opinion. Stealing an entire mod is a bit different than throwing some skins on a car. Almost every league runs ripped off stolen content anyway and nobody bothers them. Nobody is going to care about a few skins on a Ferrari.

If anyone were to care don't you think they would care about where you can actually download them?

http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/basic-skin-pack-for-ferrari-f2004.18331/

http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/minardi-f1-team-for-f2004.18586/

http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/panasonic-toyota-f1-for-ferrari-f2004.18392/

http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/bmw-williams-f1-for-ferrari-f2004.18330/

http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/mclaren-mercedes-f1-for-f2004.18738/
 
In the end, the license holder is fully within their rights to forbid such things. It's their property. I kind of understand the decision, while I disagree with it. What I don't understand is the inconsistency. Why McLaren made that decision for pCARS but not for AC, iRacing, Forza or Gran Turismo is what bothers me most.

I do not disagree with you as such, however I would like to qualify this more. Specifically, there is a difference between:
- legality as far as the law is concerned
- breach of contract as far as kunos is concerned
- breach of "contract" as far as the end user is concerned

Law part:

How far trademarks and copyright can be enforced using intellectual property laws in models is debatable. This battle has been long ranging since before 3D came up, in plastic model kits and the like.

Some things are clearly enforceable using the law, such as the company logo and car logo, the car's specific name. Specific items constituting a "face" are probably enforceable, in the racing game field it would be the details of the grille design (for limits see how closely Ford copy the DB9).

Color trademarks need to be registered, but in any case you cannot restrict people from *not* using the registered trademark color. Trying to prevent people from repainting their 3D cars going *away* from the official color is ludicrous.

Contract part wrt game company:

Game companies play this licensing game to the extent that the car manufacturers want it to be played for a variety of factor ranging from bigger legal funds with the car companies to the benefit of having control about competitors, aka getting a license negotiated with a car company also allow you to predict what kind of license competing game companies will get in what timeframe.

The contract between car company and game company is clearly binding. Normal contract with signature.

Contract part wrt end user:

Nah. Lawsuits over the past 20 years prove that the contract that is passed down to the end user via EULAs is a valid contract, however that unusual parts extended far beyond intellectual property laws require a real contract, with specific parties, with signatures or equivalent.

It is absolutely safe for end users to repaint 3D models, especially if you move *away* from the official layout that might or might not be protected by trademarks and copyright.

It is also clear that the car manufacturer can restrict the game company from offering any kind of help. Their contract is binding and enforceable and it can contain whatever they like, including ludicrous restrictions for either party. However, not everything in their contract can be enforced down to the end user via EULAs.
 
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As an additional note to that; while there is no grounds for real legal action against end users in a case like this, if the licensed party (Kunos in this case) were to turn a blind eye to such things, Ferrari would probably be within their rights to revoke the license and Kunos would be legally forced to remove the content from the sim. Highly unlikely, of course, but that is a possibility. Ferrari provides Kunos with a license to use their product under certain conditions, if those conditions are not met/upheld, they can revoke it.

Note that I'm in no way defending Ferrari on this matter; just looking at the situation and the fustercluck that is the legal/licensing system.

As far as I'm concerned, the league should run custom liveried F2004s. I sincerely doubt anything at all will happen.
 

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