Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[MikeThailand]

Thanks for the reply Mr. Latte.
I am well aware of knock-offs in Asia, anything and everything is copied. Visatron seems to be a German company but I am not sure. Basically it comes down to me taking a chance on either of these units. I was ready to buy the Aurasounds but a company who I won’t mention was trying to charge me about 5 times the norm for shipping, more to that story but I will leave it at that and under no circumstances will I deal with them. In any event between customs and shipping these get a little expensive, I am looking for bass shakers that work, that’s all I need.

Thanks again for the reply.
Mike

 

[Mr Latte]

The challenge (for me) has been sorting how to exploit what SimHub already provides.
For each effect, ShakeIt Bass Shakers offers Export output value a a property.
Then exporting WHEELS SLIP as corner properties
(which by observation are nearly identical left-to-right),
and importing those properties into a CUSTOM EFFECT already created for G forces
should enable 4 corner WHEEL SLIPS modulated by lateral and longitudinal accelerations.

WHEELS SLIP are evidently based on GameRawData.Physics.WheelSlip0[1-4] properties;
no need to re-export them.

@romainrob and some others on the Discord channel are very good at creating custom effects.
I don't have much of an interest in learning that side of it. However, when I have asked for a custom effect to operate for an idea or usage case. Often they will oblige and know what is possible.

His own Lateral G effect can work on a corner basis but I have not yet compared its operation to applying it as only left/right or the standard effect that offers speed-based curving that offers lateral operation. I would prefer to keep slip and G loads separated and not some combined effect as it may give more independent control of how each is being represented and output on the chosen transducers.


My own focus is more on the transducers and generating effects that work well.
Tests have been done with multilayer effects that can use much more frequency range with different settings applied to their operation. To bring richer or more variation.

Wheelslip, like other effects, as you alluded, can have more than one layer with additional layers activated only from high output values. Then like you mention that operation is given a suitable frequency range for its own operation, different from the effect with low output values. Now you get an effect operating with more dynamic range and detail.

Yet to do this to any level of much success. Having the hardware that can output a wider dynamic frequency range offers clear advantages to the immersion that can be enjoyed and discovered.

This is why I strongly advise the importance of having 1-200Hz output capability available for anyone serious about tactile. Even if it's a single large BK and exciter combo. This can perform much better than 4x BK Mini to Aura Pro type units on corners. The reason being it is not limited to having 4 units all with a restricted frequency range.

Instead, a user can experience the very lowest Hz, a more detailed midbass, and a greater higher range with harmonics that are being generated from effects which they likely dont feel. On top of that they can place effects to output at specific seat/body regions to achieve better detail when multiple effects are working or better spread of an effect over the seat by outputting it to multiple channels. All that brings much more potential than traditional corner installations.

My own approach by monitoring the operation of how an effect is working is helping me progress with combining effects to work better together. I enjoy how I can duplicate an effect multiple times with different settings applied to each, then compare how its activity/operation varies based on the parameters within settings. I like having this real-time analysis as part of my own rig setup.

So I want to look into G Loads and Slip. I want to see how Impacts, Road Vibration & Rumble differ in operation and how to combine each of them to offer a better all-round experience.

As often shared here and an area I differ to most. Is that I also look beyond the limitations, or mindset that a single transducer has to generate the effects coming from a channel on its own.

This is not the case but it depends how far someone wants to go with it.
One thing is clear, much better tactile is possible than what most people have or realise.

Yet you will always find newcomers to tactile impressed by what it offers even if they are using the most basic transducers/exciters available.

 

[blekenbleu]

Often they will oblige and know what is possible.

I have yet to obtain meaningful Discord responses

Having the hardware that can output a wider dynamic frequency range offers clear advantages to the immersion that can be enjoyed and discovered.

By analogy to home theater, that seems reasonable.
Practically constrained to an office chair and wheel stand, other opportunities beckon.
Based on track experience, wheel slip that does not also include wheel load can be misleading.
For example, an inside front or rear wheel may be fully unloaded when cornering, providing no sensible feedback
This GitHub SimHub G-force modulated wheel slip prototype profile, suitably tweaked,
should also be useful with more capable 4-corner transducers.

 

[Mr Latte]

True the Discord channel can often just be people seeking help with something rather than deeper discussion. Many of my own posts get ignored or receive valuable responses. Although I may have already bored people to death with my own OTT approach and long posts.

4 Corners Effects & Stereo Effects
Not something I can personally currently test as the rig is still being built...

I know from sharing test files with some people in the past that gave feedback they do not always realise when an effect is in stereo or mono. Some even preferred the mono effect operation not knowing what it was but just as it felt stronger coming from dual units.

Here we run into the biggest problem most sim rigs have.
They do not enable good stereo feedback and especially in the pedals.
How does the user clearly define between one wheel being loaded to another not loaded?
It's the same issue with other directional effects.

An exciter on each pedal stem with limited output may help (offering direct contact) but I have yet to see anyone do this and compare it to the small motor-based options.

So applying what may be per wheel response to a large extent is likely going to be lost on most people's installations? Alternatively, you may find someone will prefer mono-based feedback between front and rear as that might be able for them to distinguish better between the seat and pedals.

 

[blekenbleu]

An exciter on each pedal stem with limited output may help (offering direct contact)
but I have yet to see anyone do this and compare it to the small motor-based options.

That is/was indeed my current project until motivated to sort 4-corner wheel slip;
brake pedal rumble motor haptic was IMO too sluggish and uninformative.

So applying what may be per wheel response to a large extent is likely going to be lost on most people's installations?

That seems likely for rigid (e.g. 8020) rigs or unless tranducers directly stimulate distinct body parts
(e.g left and right sit bones, thighs and/or lumbars).
I suspect that wood or MDF rigs, as with musical instruments and loudspeakers, may be better for haptics,
thanks to distributed damping.

FWIW, tire squeal haptics above 200Hz from TT25-16 pucks are quite audible but also well sensed thru sit bones.

 

[Mr Latte]

Wood can offer good enough felt sensations, but it won't prevent L/R channel outputs from mixing.
From my own on/off tests over the last 2 years,

I looked at applying tactile using arm/extensions to make contact to the body and highlight stereo sensations via body regions, not just via rig objects or rig locations.

I tested L/R with:

Back of the ankle/calves
Underside of knees
Forearm - Elbows

Combined with multi-points on seat
Sides / Lower Back & Shoulders


As for applying slip effects that make the transducer/exciter generate audio-based sounds.
I found it can get annoying and as its limited tones, it doesn't quite suit all scenarios of slip.

An example would be slip-on grass or off-track generating the same audible response akin to a tyre like squeal on the tarmac.

You should try "Tyres" from game audio in ACC as it works well in stereo and that could be combined with Shakeit effects. The same soundcard can be used both for Simhub and Game Audio.

It may be possible to use that but then apply EQ etc to highlight only the primary frequencies that audio effect makes to help remove other sounds.

Then use specific transducers/exciters for this role and add in some effects from Simhub to work with it. Certainly possible to use directly mounted small units in this way to enhance stereo-based effects/sounds.

Different games own audio may vary in how good it can be adapted or used for this purpose though. But looking at the frequencies even "Tyres" produces much more complex audio than we could build from basic tones and it generates different sounds when of course the tyres are on tarmac, grass, stones etc.

You also get activity in responses from certain road surfaces or tarmac sections and that brrrrrrrr from curbs that can be felt from the game "audio". Yet these may have ZERO telemetry data and therefore generate nothing in Simhub/Simvibe etc.

 

[Mr Latte]

Rig Update:
Large BK - High Energy Bumps & RPM Isolation Stereo Test.
Note, additional processing Via DSP used with very high output levels to determine how well stereo crosstalk may be reduced with this custom build.

So a large BK mounted to a BK plate, that's bolted to my tubing.
Its energy will go directly into the supported steel tubing my seat and pedals will be installed on.
This as mentioned before is fully supported with six of these isolation support towers, previously shown quite a long time ago.

Yet this test was to see how much energy would pass through the isolation tower, into the bottom supported tubing frame, across that tubing to then have to come up through the isolation tower on the opposite side.

Example:
Each tower also has an additional 5 layers of vibration control materials applied (not shown) over 2x 8mm alu support plates. To minimise contact area, the only contacts, with the underside of the tower and its support plate is purposely reduced to only 4xM8 bolts with multiple weight spreading washers.

​

I stood directly on top of the tower, it compresses only about 5mm when I bobbed up/down on it with the pretension applied. So it's good that it does not bounce crazily with really low Hz and high energy output like can happen with springs.

On this mock build, even with all this effort, it appears with the high volumes used, about 20% of the energy is still coming through when having one foot on left & right opposite towers. It's good but you always hope for a bit more, yet the time has come to put things together, to get on with the next phase of the build and this upper tier.

While keen to progress, I want to test one side with all supported towers installed and 3x Buttkickers. One at each end and one in the middle. Let's see how it handles those.

 

[minez]

Hi all - I've been lurking in this thread for a while, and have read through probably the last 100 pages or so - lots to digest! Looking to make a few tactile purchases and wanted to get some feedback on the items I've selected, and a few questions as well. Rig is a Simlab P1-X (photo for reference).

So far, the list is:

• 1 x Buttkicker LFE for underneath seat
• 1 x Buttkicker for pedal plate (should this be LFE as well, or mini/concert?)
• 1 x Behringer NX3000D
• 2 x Douk Audio 4-ch amp (Link)
• 8 x Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 exciters (6 on seat, 2 pedal plate - thoughts?)
• Startech 7.1 USB sound card
• Isolators for the seat and the pedal plate

A few questions:

1. Any major issues with the equipment selected?
2. I have only chosen on buttkicker for the seat, to use in conjunction with exciters. Is this the best approach? It sounds like stereo separation for additional buttkickers on the seat is difficult to achieve, so one is simpler? I'm keen to try and keep to one of the NX amps, so two BKs total.
3. Which buttkicker is best for the pedal plate? Should I get a second LFE, or is a concert or mini a better option? Or would just a couple of exciters be adequate without the buttkicker?
4. Does anyone have any photos/ideas for mounting a buttkicker LFE to the Simlab pedal plate? Any possible issue with the LFE shaking the pedals themselves?
5. I don't really want to drill into the seat to mount the LFE. I was thinking of fabricating an aluminum/steel plate as below for the LFE to attach to in the centre. This would sit on top of rubber isolators with the seat mounted on top. The plate/LFE/seat should therefore be isolated from the rest of the rig. Is there any major drawbacks to this approach? Am I losing a great deal by not directly attaching to the seat for the low frequency vibrations?

Thanks for the help and for all the detail so far. Looking forward to sharing more as I progress through this build!

Cheers

 

[anton_Chez]

That is a SUPER clean rig dude, very nice!

 

[Mr Latte]

Some others may have thier own advice to offer, here is mine...

For Mono BK on the seat and a solution, I was discussing this with an old online friend from Cyprus.
He is seeking to do the same with his Trak Racer profile based rig.

Several people are happy with bolting a BK to the underside of the seat. Its energy will easily cover the whole seat and up the backrest. This, however, gives only one entry point (while direct) for the BK unit's energy to enter the seat. I refer to this as producing a potential hotspot and this area will have the most energy and disperse it over the whole seat.

Let us look at alternative options.

Plates
Others in the past have used steel plate beneath the seat that connects with each seat riser on the left/right. The plate is then isolated beneath connecting to the rig frame. Let's assume a person is considering some form of plate option for below

This plate may be drilled, so it can have a central Mono BK but also drilled that, the plate could be later cut in two if the user then wanted to mount Stereo BK to each of the L/R plates created.

If so, these (having their own pre-drilled holes) the user can avoid each unit's energy mixing into a single plate and each unit's entry point is at each side of the seat (via seat risers).

Yes of course the energy of each unit will mix in the seat but you do have individual effects being positional entering the seat from each opposite side.

A point to also raise here is that dual BK installed in such a way. While it can offer effects with stereo separation by not being on the same single horizontal plate. It can also apply specific effects layers or indeed effects (the user chooses) to both units at the same time. Let's say, impacts or gearchange (non-positional effects) can now be given twice the potential energy in output and avoiding the central (single unit) hotspot.

Dual units in this scenario can fill the seat better than a single unit will so performance gains are possible. Alternatively, a single unit with its volume cranked is not the same as two units with more moderate volume. Here you can discover the "hotspot" and "improved dispersion" factors.


Hold up, that's not all.
With a good design and implementation, you can have energy entering the seat from the seat risers but also from underneath too. Giving you additional entry pathways of the unit's energy into the seat rather than one direct application.

Some seats differ in their shapes/molds but how I would personally approach this if it was my own. Is have either profile drilled/bolted to the underside of the seat approx 6" apart. Or if needed shape 4mm aluminum strip/bars to then bolting these to the underside of the seat.

Either way, you can have two metal contacts beneath the seat for the buttocks/thighs that are bolted to the seat and then bolted to the plate/plates if stereo. The BK then bolt to the plate(s) and the energy is delivered now into the seat by both methods via the seat risers mounts and the seat's underside contact points.


Annnnnndddddddd yet more....
It's possible to even take this approach further by extending the 8020 profile used underneath that it comes out and angles up to offer two parallel extensions to the back of the seat that is then bolted to the shoulder regions.

Simply two profile "L" shaped channels for the tactile energy to flow over.
What this does is again offers another entry point for the BK energy to be purposely channeled into the seat. It will improve the energy felt in the back regions for low frequencies.

I did trials with these ideas/approaches with my own used steel/chrome tubing.
While it is possible and been suggested I have not seen anyone do this with 8020 but it's been shared a few times...

I couldn't even drill, but didn't let that stop me and got creative.
I've tested various configs and ideas but still more to learn and decide on.





Own previous tests with seat underside & seat back channeled distribution.
When you try things you discover and learn what works and what does not work so well.


8020 Frame Solution
Some visual references of past discussions with others on this going back 2-3 years.
I do think its possible to make a superb 8020 solution for this (not specifically as shown below) but talking with some interested and having their own feedback on how to apply such.



Let's consider from here an 8020 solution approach...

Dual "L" shaped profile from underneath the seat to the back. Drilled and bolted into place.
This lets you attach transducers to specific points or for the energy of a large unit to easily be channeled into specific seat regions for improved flow.

If the seat has quite a flat bottom and you use 8020, then it's possible to not only have underside - seat back extension arms but also seats supports deliver the tactile using an 8020 support frame.

It's possible to get creative, apply some tests but I can confirm this approach worked well for me with introducing multiple entry paths for the BK energy to flow into the seat and not only, just one.

These images are old from a previous discussion but is just for a visual reference.
It would not be hard to combine the discussed "L" extensions to an 8020 base section and then attach the BK as well to this frame and then isolated/decoupled from a secondary support frame attached to the main rig.

If anything one of the bigger challenges is having it all fit in with improved isolation and not affect the height ratio between the seat and wheel deck. So one of the factors is lowering the section that supports the seat to allow for decent quality isolation to be installed.

80mm -120mm could also be used to offer nice wide lower deck supports for more substantial isolation options. Then to install the BK onto an upper section to support the seat mounts.

These positions below are only for mono/stereo options not specific placement points. BK could be inverted hanging below the frame.



More detailed analysis could be done with someone willing to get the parts and do a professional installation. Using such ideas, the challenges are not that great but upgraded isolation and perhaps the rig raised more on rubber wheels would also be recommended.

 

[Mr Latte]

Motion-based rigs, often seen as a pinnacle will not produce the reactions you see from this guy in this video. The sound, the felt sensations, and the theatre such cars can deliver.

"That will literally make a dragon wet itself"

How can we capture that drama, thrill, and happy-fuelled sensation?
I decided long ago I want to seek more of this from my own rigs immersion and less about following the crowd in artificially being moved, pulled, or squeezed.

Plenty of people with impressive builds/rigs pushing for connected realism aspects with "motion"
Very few seeking to push the limits, generating the essence for the car being driven, capturing its own character and the "felt emotion" factor it brings.

 

[cfischer9009]

Plenty of people with impressive builds/rigs pushing for connected realism aspects with "motion"
Very few seeking to push the limits, generating the essence for the car being driven, capturing its own character and the "felt emotion" factor it brings.

I'm very much so looking forward to seeing this masterpiece you're building. I think about this often and how best to approach it.

Hurry up and get your build online so we can learn from it!

ps good video

 

[ilonioum]

Some others may have thier own advice to offer, here is mine...

For Mono BK on the seat and a solution, I was discussing this with an old online friend from Cyprus.
He is seeking to do the same with his Trak Racer profile based rig.

Several people are happy with bolting a BK to the underside of the seat. Its energy will easily cover the whole seat and up the backrest. This, however, gives only one entry point (while direct) for the BK unit's energy to enter the seat. I refer to this as producing a potential hotspot and this area will have the most energy and disperse it over the whole seat.

Let us look at alternative options.

Plates
Others in the past have used steel plate beneath the seat that connects with each seat riser on the left/right. The plate is then isolated beneath connecting to the rig frame. Let's assume a person is considering some form of plate option for below

This plate may be drilled, so it can have a central Mono BK but also drilled that, the plate could be later cut in two if the user then wanted to mount Stereo BK to each of the L/R plates created.

If so, these (having their own pre-drilled holes) the user can avoid each unit's energy mixing into a single plate and each unit's entry point is at each side of the seat (via seat risers).

Yes of course the energy of each unit will mix in the seat but you do have individual effects being positional entering the seat from each opposite side.

A point to also raise here is that dual BK installed in such a way. While it can offer effects with stereo separation by not being on the same single horizontal plate. It can also apply specific effects layers or indeed effects (the user chooses) to both units at the same time. Let's say, impacts or gearchange (non-positional effects) can now be given twice the potential energy in output and avoiding the central (single unit) hotspot.

Dual units in this scenario can fill the seat better than a single unit will so performance gains are possible. Alternatively, a single unit with its volume cranked is not the same as two units with more moderate volume. Here you can discover the "hotspot" and "improved dispersion" factors.


Hold up, that's not all.
With a good design and implementation, you can have energy entering the seat from the seat risers but also from underneath too. Giving you additional entry pathways of the unit's energy into the seat rather than one direct application.

Some seats differ in their shapes/molds but how I would personally approach this if it was my own. Is have either profile drilled/bolted to the underside of the seat approx 6" apart. Or if needed shape 4mm aluminum strip/bars to then bolting these to the underside of the seat.

Either way, you can have two metal contacts beneath the seat for the buttocks/thighs that are bolted to the seat and then bolted to the plate/plates if stereo. The BK then bolt to the plate(s) and the energy is delivered now into the seat by both methods via the seat risers mounts and the seat's underside contact points.


Annnnnndddddddd yet more....
It's possible to even take this approach further by extending the 8020 profile used underneath that it comes out and angles up to offer two parallel extensions to the back of the seat that is then bolted to the shoulder regions.

Simply two profile "L" shaped channels for the tactile energy to flow over.
What this does is again offers another entry point for the BK energy to be purposely channeled into the seat. It will improve the energy felt in the back regions for low frequencies.

I did trials with these ideas/approaches with my own used steel/chrome tubing.
While it is possible and been suggested I have not seen anyone do this with 8020 but it's been shared a few times...

I couldn't even drill, but didn't let that stop me and got creative.
I've tested various configs and ideas but still more to learn and decide on.





Own previous tests with seat underside & seat back channeled distribution.
When you try things you discover and learn what works and what does not work so well.


8020 Frame Solution
Some visual references of past discussions with others on this going back 2-3 years.
I do think its possible to make a superb 8020 solution for this (not specifically as shown below) but talking with some interested and having their own feedback on how to apply such.



Let's consider from here an 8020 solution approach...

Dual "L" shaped profile from underneath the seat to the back. Drilled and bolted into place.
This lets you attach transducers to specific points or for the energy of a large unit to easily be channeled into specific seat regions for improved flow.

If the seat has quite a flat bottom and you use 8020, then it's possible to not only have underside - seat back extension arms but also seats supports deliver the tactile using an 8020 support frame.

It's possible to get creative, apply some tests but I can confirm this approach worked well for me with introducing multiple entry paths for the BK energy to flow into the seat and not only, just one.

These images are old from a previous discussion but is just for a visual reference.
It would not be hard to combine the discussed "L" extensions to an 8020 base section and then attach the BK as well to this frame and then isolated/decoupled from a secondary support frame attached to the main rig.

If anything one of the bigger challenges is having it all fit in with improved isolation and not affect the height ratio between the seat and wheel deck. So one of the factors is lowering the section that supports the seat to allow for decent quality isolation to be installed.

80mm -120mm could also be used to offer nice wide lower deck supports for more substantial isolation options. Then to install the BK onto an upper section to support the seat mounts.

These positions below are only for mono/stereo options not specific placement points. BK could be inverted hanging below the frame.



More detailed analysis could be done with someone willing to get the parts and do a professional installation. Using such ideas, the challenges are not that great but upgraded isolation and perhaps the rig raised more on rubber wheels would also be recommended.

As an old friend from Cyprus, I would like to thank you for all your support and can't wait for those BK Concerts to arrive here to test them. I will try the mono setup for pedal section and seat section first and add the TST209 for higher frequencies.

Cutting the pedal plate in half introduced other challenges such as pedal plate strength issues, plus I have the Fanatec CS V3 pedals which come in one piece and will act as a bridge transferring most of the energy in both ways and ruining the whole concept, this is me guessing.

I believe it is always better to add these transducers one by one to be able to distinguish what is what as adding all together from the beginning will create a mess if you have never experienced tactile transducers before.

And most of all is isolation and this is something that i'm working on at the moment as I would like to avoid shaking the building and losing the power to the floor and pissing of my wife and my neighbours So I plan to have a thick rubber mat (1cm thick, used for washing machines) under the castor wheels. then different rubber pads and rubber dampeners to separate the seat and pedal sections from the main 8020 frame of my TR160 rig.

let's see how it goes.

 

[racerooo]

Apologies if this has been asked before, but I have scoured the forums and can't see it.

I am looking to get 4 BKs in Chassis mode. I have seen the NX1000D recommended, but why wouldn't I just buy the amp that BK supplies? Why use the NX1000D instead?

 

[anton_Chez]

You won't get chassis mode from that amp, it's only 2 channel. You can use BK amps, but they don't come with them unless you buy the BK Gamer. As far as I know all the other 'proper' units do not come with an amp bundled. Not sure if they even have dedicated amps for anything above the Gamer 2.

 

[Mr Latte]

Apologies if this has been asked before, but I have scoured the forums and can't see it.

I am looking to get 4 BKs in Chassis mode. I have seen the NX1000D recommended, but why wouldn't I just buy the amp that BK supplies? Why use the NX1000D instead?

So you need 4 independent channels for 4 individual units
BK amps work in mono.

Behringers NXD amps are stereo, 2 are needed for 4 channels.


Finding a 4x channel amp with enough wattage that can power upto 4x large BK and with included DSP does not seem to be available. Behringer's own 4 channel model with enough wattage does not have DSP.

Low Frequency Effects
For the best output with frequencies below 20Hz and in particular those below 10Hz
You want DSP features, as it makes quite a difference being able to increase the output with EQ/Crossover.

If you don't have this control, then you WILL lose out on potential energy and immersion with effects that is possible from the largest BK.

 

[Mr Latte]

As an old friend from Cyprus, I would like to thank you for all your support and can't wait for those BK Concerts to arrive here to test them. I will try the mono setup for pedal section and seat section first and add the TST209 for higher frequencies.

Cutting the pedal plate in half introduced other challenges such as pedal plate strength issues, plus I have the Fanatec CS V3 pedals which come in one piece and will act as a bridge transferring most of the energy in both ways and ruining the whole concept, this is me guessing.

I believe it is always better to add these transducers one by one to be able to distinguish what is what as adding all together from the beginning will create a mess if you have never experienced tactile transducers before.

And most of all is isolation and this is something that i'm working on at the moment as I would like to avoid shaking the building and losing the power to the floor and pissing of my wife and my neighbours So I plan to have a thick rubber mat (1cm thick, used for washing machines) under the castor wheels. then different rubber pads and rubber dampeners to separate the seat and pedal sections from the main 8020 frame of my TR160 rig.

let's see how it goes.

Yes, and I include 2x Thruster Exciters for you as well with 4x of these.
You have to accept, it is non-debatable, as I could not buy you any liquid refreshments in the recent "virtual pub".

You can try exciters on pedals with large BK and if placing TST on the seat with the 2nd large BK.

 

[racerooo]

So you need 4 independent channels for 4 individual units
BK amps work in mono.

Behringers NXD amps are stereo, 2 are needed for 4 channels.


Finding a 4x channel amp with enough wattage that can power upto 4x large BK and with included DSP does not seem to be available. Behringer's own 4 channel model with enough wattage does not have DSP.

Low Frequency Effects
For the best output with frequencies below 20Hz and in particular those below 10Hz
You want DSP features, as it makes quite a difference being able to increase the output with EQ/Crossover.

If you don't have this control, then you WILL lose out on potential energy and immersion with effects that is possible from the largest BK.

thanks. I’m aware I would need 2 to get the 4 BKs to work.

So it’s mainly about the DSP? I was only planning to get the mini LFEs, so wasn’t really planning to get the big ones.

When I say bundled amp, I mean this one. I can buy it seperately.

ButtKicker BKA-130-C Power Amplifier

ButtKicker BKA-130-C Power Amplifier now available in Australia for the ultimate 4D Home Theatre or Gaming Experience. Free Shipping Australia Wide

pagnianimports.com.au

The difference I am seeing is upgradeability (larger BKs) and DSP?

 

[anton_Chez]

Pretty sure that amp is for the Gamer 2. You would not want to run that with anything larger I reckon. 45W RMS for 4 Ohm output, no way anything from a Mini LFE up would be able to run off this thing.

 

[racerooo]

Pretty sure that amp is for the Gamer 2. You would not want to run that with anything larger I reckon. 45W RMS for 4 Ohm output, no way anything from a Mini LFE up would be able to run off this thing.

Good job I asked. They do sell it here with the Mini Concert.

Buttkicker Simulation Kit - 240V Australian Version – Pagnian Advanced Simulation (pagnianimports.com.au)