Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[Deleted member 1451080]

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[Deleted member 1449502]

On the volume knob I have always kept it at 2 o'clock. And do you mean overall gain level on the BKC channel in the DSP?

 

[Deleted member 1451080]

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[Deleted member 1449502]

I have that at 12 for the BKC. Also run simhub at 30 and almost all effects are not run over 100 in simhub output. I have 3 x TST429's where I run a few effects above 100 output though

 

[Deleted member 1451080]

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[Deleted member 1449502]

No motion system, although it is something I may consider down the line. However there are a few guys with motion rig/tactile setups here that would be able to offer more relevant advice for you

 

[Deleted member 1451080]

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[anton_Chez]

It's just a bit weird to have so much power going from the amp to the units, only to have less than 1/3 of it come out of Simhub. I mean, I get the reason to not run something at 100%, but there is a case to be made there that an amp half as powerful would do the same job as the current one, if run at 60-70% volume in Simhub.

 

[Atak_Kat]

It's just a bit weird to have so much power going from the amp to the units, only to have less than 1/3 of it come out of Simhub. I mean, I get the reason to not run something at 100%, but there is a case to be made there that an amp half as powerful would do the same job as the current one, if run at 60-70% volume in Simhub.

This confuses me too.

I use the NX1000D with my BK CT (2 ohms), and even just running music through it, I can easily make the piston clank without getting anywhere near the volume limit of the amp. So this is in theory an amp capable of 500w (2ohm) per channel, and the BK CT with specs saying minimum 400w and max 1500w.

I have thought many times to get a bigger amp to pair with the BK CT. But I just cannot reconcile why.

Probably someone will educate me.

 

[Pablo Roldan]

Srry, i have been reading quite a bit the thread but missed a basic on how to power up the exciters.

In a 8x setup would you have them running in parallel 4-4 with an AMP with 2 outputs?
Or do you use an output for each exciter?.....What amp are you using in this case?

 

[anton_Chez]

Srry, i have been reading quite a bit the thread but missed a basic on how to power up the exciters.

In a 8x setup would you have them running in parallel 4-4 with an AMP with 2 outputs?
Or do you use an output for each exciter?.....What amp are you using in this case?

Totally up to you. Of course it depends on your hardware whether you already have it or you plan on buying something to achieve what you want. The advice you'll most likely receive from those that run the exciters is to get an amp that can have one channel per exciter, so you can send effects to each unit individually. I ran 6 exciters, all on the seat and ran them from a 2 channel amp. So, basically one channel for the left side and one channel for the right side. I didn't feel like investing in more amplifiers and since I've removed and sold the exciters all together, so I guess the decision was the correct one.

 

[Pablo Roldan]

Totally up to you. Of course it depends on your hardware whether you already have it or you plan on buying something to achieve what you want. The advice you'll most likely receive from those that run the exciters is to get an amp that can have one channel per exciter, so you can send effects to each unit individually. I ran 6 exciters, all on the seat and ran them from a 2 channel amp. So, basically one channel for the left side and one channel for the right side. I didn't feel like investing in more amplifiers and since I've removed and sold the exciters all together, so I guess the decision was the correct one.

Thanks. So you are not using tactile now?.Or how do you have it set up?

 

[anton_Chez]

I have tactile but not using the exciters anymore. 1 x BK CT, 1 x TST 239, 1 x NX1000D. Both under seat.

 

[bberger]

2 questions:

1) Is there a particular reason that the MiniQuake (MQB-1) don't get much love?

Amazon recently had 2 of them on offer for a reasonable price so I ordered them as the bottoming out of the BK LFE Mini isn't really suitable for night-time tactile in the sleeping room..

They should arrive on Wednesday so I can't judge them (yet).

I know I could handle the BKs with some fancy DSP equipment, but honestly I don't wanna spend that much money on yet an another amp right now..

2) I currently also have mounted a few (6) SinusLive BassPumps directly on my GFK seat, those date back to about a decade ago.. While they give satisfactory feedback most of the time they get really, really weak below ~30Hz and start to "sing" really quickly at above 60Hz. I'm awaiting a new GFK seat (Luso MK8) in the not too distant future and I'm trying to figure out if swapping them with either Aura Pro or Reckhorn BS200i may be worth it. I could get both of them for reasonable prices, but no idea which one of those might be the better shaker for being screwed directly into the seat.

I suspect the Auras might have a little better low-end while the BS200i might go a littler higher?

My hope would be that both of them would run a little less audible than the SinusLive BassPumps..

I don't want to use exciters or Dayton Pucks as from my gathering they're quite noisy and audible and I need to use them at night-time in the bedroom while the wife is sleeping.. my seat and pedals are decoupled nicely so I can get by with really low volumes (also racing in full VR really helps with getting by on low volumes).

 

[blekenbleu]

handle the BKs with some fancy DSP equipment

Any transducer with a piston is liable to pang;
Equalizer APO can tune out those resonances for free.

exciters or Dayton Pucks as from my gathering they're quite noisy and audible

Any transducer that can respond to easily audible frequencies is liable to that;
SimHub's lowpass filter can address that.

 

[anton_Chez]

1) Is there a particular reason that the MiniQuake (MQB-1) don't get much love?

I had one and a few others have used them in here. They aren't that well known. I think Earthquake as a brand is just not as recognised as Buttkicker is in the tactile market. If you're replacing BK Mini's with the MQB-1, you'll be pleasantly surprised. I think that the Mini's hit a little harder, but the EQ unit has a nice range to it and is quite powerful itself. In the end I got rid of mine, along with the Mini's and got the larger BK CT. They don't really need any tuning as far as my experience was with them and they go down to around 18hz before they start to run out of breath. I remember how much my whole chassis was shaking when I ran a hz test down around the 18hz range. Was pretty impressive. They are around the same size as a Mini LFE, but I bought mine thinking it was a larger unit.

Amazon prices do fluctuate a fair bit from what I've seen. If you can get them at the low price then they are a decent buy.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Any transducer with a piston is liable to pang;
Equalizer APO can tune out those resonances for free.

Even without software you can pretty much eliminate the issue by either avoiding problem range or using lower gain for this range effect in SimHub. Mounting Mini LFEs on flexible cantilever plates also helps a lot.

 

[bberger]

Any transducer with a piston is liable to pang;
Equalizer APO can tune out those resonances for free.


Any transducer that can respond to easily audible frequencies is liable to that;
SimHub's lowpass filter can address that.

Thanks, completely forgot about EqApo. I actually even used it before..

I had one and a few others have used them in here. They aren't that well known. I think Earthquake as a brand is just not as recognised as Buttkicker is in the tactile market. If you're replacing BK Mini's with the MQB-1, you'll be pleasantly surprised. I think that the Mini's hit a little harder, but the EQ unit has a nice range to it and is quite powerful itself. In the end I got rid of mine, along with the Mini's and got the larger BK CT. They don't really need any tuning as far as my experience was with them and they go down to around 18hz before they start to run out of breath. I remember how much my whole chassis was shaking when I ran a hz test down around the 18hz range. Was pretty impressive. They are around the same size as a Mini LFE, but I bought mine thinking it was a larger unit.

Amazon prices do fluctuate a fair bit from what I've seen. If you can get them at the low price then they are a decent buy.

Yeah, I thought hard and long about getting a used LFE vs. trying the MiniQuakes.. in the end curiosity (and the lack of an amp > 300W) won. I still have about 36h to cancel the order though.

If people can convince me of another (silent) route I'll happily cancel my order and get rid of my miniLFE.

My original plan was:
- 4x Aura Pro or Recohorn BS200i for chassis mode
- 1 full size LFE beneath the seat on the platform
- Keeping my 6 SinusLive BassPumps and bolt them onto my new bucket seat (or replace them with Reckhorn/BS200i too, maybe even a full array of Dayton Pucks..?)
- rid myself of the miniLFEs

Went down a full blown up rabbit hole after that...

Even without software you can pretty much eliminate the issue by either avoiding problem range or using lower gain for this range effect in SimHub. Mounting Mini LFEs on flexible cantilever plates also helps a lot.

Need to look into SimHub more. After a 6 year hiatus from SimRacing I currently am running David Tucker's native single channel solution baked into iRacing itself.

 

[blekenbleu]

convince me

More than anything else, exactly how transducers are deployed makes big differences.
If configured so that most tactile energy stimulates the driver,
rather than being wasted e.g. on metal extrusions, quite modest devices can be effective.

If the goal is as an alternative to motion, that takes massive moving pistons.

 

[bberger]

More than anything else, exactly how transducers are deployed makes big differences.
If configured so that most tactile energy stimulates the driver,
rather than being wasted e.g. on metal extrusions, quite modest devices can be effective.

If the goal is as an alternative to motion, that takes massive moving pistons.

Hence my mounting of the shakers directly onto the seat and decoupling/isolating the seat and pedals from the rest of the rig.

Not trying to replace motion with it. I've been driving a seatmover for a looooong time and as soon as I have the space and a dedicated sim-room again it will be a seatmover on top of an SFX100.

What I want to do in the meantime though is to get some of my tactile back - without blowing too much money on intermediate solutions. Mostly I'm after engine vibrations/RPM and Kerbs/Road Bumps + GearChange impacts (that's mostly for helping whem driving though as I had to cripple my Paddle shifters from most of their snappyness to reduce noise, they were quite a bit louder than my bottoming iut BKs..) - that's why I originally planned on getting Reckhorn BS200i as they should have a more usable range than BKs (mine run out of steam over 60Hz). But then again the SinusLive BassPumps kinda get noisy/audible on the Kerbs where the BK MiniLFE stayed mostly quiet. On Impacts the MiniLFEs are bottoming out. On gear changes too.

You see.. -hole was incoming ;-)

PS: as I barely ever see it done or even mentioned: those Shore 55A rubber isolators (with 2 threads) can usually withstand loads from compression and also push forces. So they can also be mounted vertically just fine. They just don't like to be pulled. Decoupling the seat like in the pic below helps a LOT with stability and also decouples better than mounted horizontally. This also eliminates the pulling forces you usually get from the dampers mounted at the front of the seat rail when the forces try to tilt the seat back, hence a lot less flex while having better isolation as the seat basically is floating that way. (please ignore the rig itself, that's just some intermediate solution from scrap parts I didn't want to cut, awaiting my new seat and laser cut stainless steel mounts etc. for a full rebuild).