Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[Mr Latte]

Hi I’ve now got the NX1000 all set up and running
Are there any screen shots of anyone’s settings available here?
I’ve got it working but it doesn’t feel as good as my old buttkicker amps
Obviously there’s a lot of tweaking involved but there’s a lot of knobs to adjust
Thanks

If you show settings you currently have for the different screens the software has.
Just confirm what BK units you are also using.

 

[Dan.E.B]

If you show settings you currently have for the different screens the software has.
Just confirm what BK units you are also using.

I’ve left the settings all at default for now
I’m running next level racing’s motion platform and tactile system (which felt pretty much the same as simvibe with my old amps) but NLR system doesn’t have the same level of adjustment as simvibe has
As for transducers I have 1 gamer 2 and 1 mini concert
Also I couldn’t find an option to adjust the impedance so I’m assuming it automatically outputs 2hms?

 

[Mr Latte]

I’ve left the settings all at default for now
I’m running next level racing’s motion platform and tactile system (which felt pretty much the same as simvibe with my old amps) but NLR system doesn’t have the same level of adjustment as simvibe has
As for transducers I have 1 gamer 2 and 1 mini concert
Also I couldn’t find an option to adjust the impedance so I’m assuming it automatically outputs 2hms?

See here
I covered the software for another member recently.

Its important you set the amp up to match 2ohm devices and you can even set a digital wattage limiter for them. See the "Configuration" screen and the "Load" setting.

 

[boern69]

I read : 2 cables from soundcard are needed for "chassis mod" simhub ->shake it
I connect onboard card green (● Realtek® ALC887 Codec ● 7.1-Channel High Definition Audio)
but but there is no black for 2. cable only blue and red connector

Can anyone help

 

[Mr Latte]

See your motherboard manual to determine what colour is the rear channels an then cen/sub channel. Test to confirm when connected.

 

[Dan.E.B]

See here
I covered the software for another member recently.

Its important you set the amp up to match 2ohm devices and you can even set a digital wattage limiter for them. See the "Configuration" screen and the "Load" setting.

That’s a great break down thanks
One thing tho on the filter/crossover page
What would I set the high pass and low pass switches to?
Am right in thinking I should match my buttkicker gamer frequency response 5-200hz?
So set low pass to 5Hz
High pass set to 200hz
Or does it not work that way?
Thanks sorry for all the questions it’s a deep learning curve

 

[RCHeliguy]

Quick question. I'm running 4 x Aura 2B Pros and have plenty of power. I've had to dial them all back from the maximum I can get from them.

Are the similar form factor ADX Maximus transducers different in ability other than being more efficient?

 

[Mr Latte]

That’s a great break down thanks
One thing tho on the filter/crossover page
What would I set the high pass and low pass switches to?
Am right in thinking I should match my buttkicker gamer frequency response 5-200hz?
So set low pass to 5Hz
High pass set to 200hz
Or does it not work that way?
Thanks sorry for all the questions it’s a deep learning curve

What I recommend is discover with doing "audio frequency tests" what frequency range your own units work well with. It's good for the individual user/person to grasp this aspect. We would then use the crossover control on an amp to suit the tactile units it is powering taking into account your preference from such audio frequency tests.

With the EQ etc we may find a unit has a peak output with a set frequency. Often the peak frequency output is what determines how much dB you would use. Yet let's say, a user trimmed down a peak frequency, they could boost then other frequencies and run with a higher gain with the unit still feeling composed.

What you are doing here is changing the operating character the unit has to your own preference or in some cases we can reduce specific frequencies that may cause reverberations in some materials. Different materials will vary as will peoples installations.

 

[Mr Latte]

Heres an update on some recent tests I have been doing....
Hardware suitable for:

• Cheap Entry To Experience Tactile Immersion
• Extract More Detail From Engine RPM & SPEED Mid-High Bass Frequencies

Have shared recently in this thread very affordable amps that can power the common tactile hardware.

I have been testing the Dayton Audio HDN8 unit which seems a bit of a hybrid between the typical tactile unit and also a tactile exciter. Well I say this, as it offers decent mid-low-frequency output @40-Hz but will give felt tactile detail beyond 200Hz and over. So with that range, it is ideal for enhancing engine sensations. Or it could be combined with other tactile units to increase the immersion they already deliver.

Yes these "exciters" can generate lots of audio/sound via the material they are attached too, thus make it become like a speaker. However we can use "Crossover" control to restrict their output to below 250Hz and even 200Hz which is the general limits we find on other bass/subwoofer related hardware. This can remove any annoying audible levels but still let us directly apply tactile energy to specific places on a seat or pedals.

One benefit is that some units are very small but also very affordable and even come with 3M sticky back application so its certainly an area I want to explore more and share findings with. Especially when attaching directly to a seat for knee/shoulder and spine body regions additional enhancement.

What I want to do is compare it with some potential options in "exciters" that may offer a little less depth but with greater energy with the high frequencies. I really want to achieve more tactile energy (zing/buzz) from the high RPM sensations to match the audible sound they have.

Here Are Some examples that may help achieve this:
Notice how the already tested HDN8 compares to potential alternatives.
I am going to look at buying two more alternatives for additional comparisons but regardless of what tactile units you already have, this approach may help increase the energy for effects using above 80Hz that we find on many traditional tactile units starts to drop off.



Achieving The Best Engine Immersion

Recent Test
Assetto Corsa Competizione - Nissan GTR
I set up a configuration to have SSB (Shakeit bass shaker) work with Gear / Speed and RPM effects. I then combined these telemetry based engine sensations with the "games audio" to have a tactile mix of both. This was really excellent even on these affordable tactile, producing many elements of character from the car that we can't get from just telemetry based tactile but with using both we also get the elements in sensations and effects that the audio does not have. I STRONGLY recommend people seeking to get the best engine sensations from tactile do this and look beyond just using Simvibe as it appears many do.

The Nissan GTR like several cars in ACC just sounds and feel awesome. Therefore its audio-tactile in instances when also coming off throttle we get/feel the character of the car. So while its (audio tactile) lacks lots of surface-based bumps (we get in telemetry tactile), it does, however, offer nice stereo based effects from curbs and rumble strips too.

Further testing to come, certainly potential here guys...
I have 2x Dayton Audio DAEX32U-4 Ultra 32mm 40W units arriving for additional comparisons to the HDN8 and looking at another option as well.

 

[anton_Chez]

To have telemetry based AND sound based tactile, we cannot use the same sound card for both, can we? Would I need a third sound card then? One for game audio, one for Shake It and another for game audio going to tactile units?

Sounds like we need a mirror image of what we have now with hardware. I did try audio tactile and I liked the engine note it gave me. But I think I left it alone because it was too unrefined and a lot of noise was getting in the way as well.

 

[RCHeliguy]

After hearing what an exciter with speaker like tendencies did, I didn't like it at all. I prefer the vibration only quiet transducers.

 

[Mr Latte]

To have telemetry based AND sound based tactile, we cannot use the same sound card for both, can we? Would I need a third sound card then? One for game audio, one for Shake It and another for game audio going to tactile units?

Sounds like we need a mirror image of what we have now with hardware. I did try audio tactile and I liked the engine note it gave me. But I think I left it alone because it was too unrefined and a lot of noise was getting in the way as well.

Some users may just use VR for audio, so what a user needs to do will vary but yes we need to have a soundcard supply the "audio for the game".

This can be the soundcard audio that goes to speakers and then split/duplicate the output. So we would then have an output going to say both speakers/headset and an output for the tactile.

In some scenarios a user may want individual volume controls for the headset/speakers compared to the tactile. So they are able to adjust each independently and not just use the windows based volume slider.

For example, I may want the audio output to the tactile not to be reduced going into the amp that powers these but I may want to lower the volume to a set of headphones. So having a headphone amp controlling them is possible and us not lower the output gain from the soundcard itself. This way the audio-output for the tactile is not reduced.

For mixing the audio and tactile based soundcards, there are various ways to do this with cables or additional hardware. A unit that has mix controls allows us to usually connect both sources and then determine the % in volume each have within the mix. If a user has this its ideal for different titles as they may want to increase/decrease the "audio volume" in the mix to balance it with the telemetry tactile effects volume.

The whole thing can be broke down in more detail and simplified at a later time. I understand some see "mixing" this as too much hassle. Yet amusingly we find on the forums people like yourself and others who have dabbled with 2-3 motion hardware/software combinations to control. So really this is much less once it is installed/incorporated.

Personally I use the Behringer HA6000 for mixing both sources. Its a cool bit of hardware and not that expensive. What we also see and needs proper coverage/in-depth testing is how the most popular titles use their game audio.

PC audio, unlike consoles, is a bit of a mess as we can find instances where the sub/cen channel is not well utilised and in some cases with 5.1 we loose bass to the main channels compared to using 2 channel or 4 channel configurations.

This will be something I cover in my own personal build thread.

 

[Mr Latte]

After hearing what an exciter with speaker like tendencies did, I didn't like it at all. I prefer the vibration only quiet transducers.

We have to use EQ or crossover control to LIMIT what range it outputs.
This way we then avoid it making much "audible sound" but still can feel its "tactile energy".
200Hz -250Hz is around the limits as the bass becomes more like sound than feel.

Keep in mind "game audio" is full range frequencies, while "telemetry tactile" will not be. So yes the game audio needs tweeked. The aim here is to bring even better "mid-high" frequency tactile detailing that common units struggle to deliver well. Buttkickers, ADX, Dayton Puc all loose energy or are limited below 100Hz in how well they output the higher frequencies.

What I want to compare, is how these cheap tactile "exciter" options enable us to position them directly in desired places (shoulders,spine,knees,wheel rim) and test their abilities to models like the Clark TST range including their highest end model costing $549. Larger units we cant perhaps place/install them to such locations easily.

The main goal is to get much more "zing" and "life" from the engines sensation as deep low-end bass is not the problem. Small, slim units like the Dayton Puc which have been highlighted in installations for example, recently installed to the GS5 panels. These on paper/specs are restricted to 80Hz and I will show how we go beyond this or the immersion it can deliver.

Often I have stated how beyond 100Hz brought little in added immersion with effects. Engine and wheelsip are options in being more constant that we can detect or utilise better. So really this experimentation is putting to practice possible ways to extract more immersion.

Its not something I have seen anyone else cover in other forums but I am curious to look into as my own rig is being built specifically with a primary purpose to enhance tactile.

I have also ordered one of these to compare, so this will be 3 options to test.
Lets see how it goes, I am optimistic based on the early results with the HDN8 and is not a unit I have seen shown much of before.

​

For affordable amplifiers, the "Nobsound" amps seem hard to beat. Models with 50W and upto 100W (according to specs 4ohm & 8ohm support) to suit budget tactile units and these different models shown.

TPA3116 2x100W
Nobsound Tone 2x50W​

 

[RCHeliguy]

I think I'm done tweaking tactile or motion on my rig. It currently feels good enough that I get lost in the game. I'm still looking forward to upgrading my controls a bit. I'm not happy with my hand brake, clutch or brake, but I think everything else is past my threshold for concern about improvements for the time being.

BTW that DIY 4 x 100W PS I built for under $100 USD is still doing great and has had no issues shutting down after extended use with my 4ohm transducers. It seems many of you are knee deep in the DIY mode, so this wouldn't be a stretch.

 

[anton_Chez]

I think I'm the same, I've gotten a nice amount of engine feeling and also some speed feeling that helps to compliment the full motion. I've gone into hz ranges I've previously avoided but have managed to get them to work for me with the right amount of gain and also response from the sim. Like not coming on full power all the time, a little tweaking has worked well there.

 

[Mr Latte]

Well if you guys are using single units with limited Hz capabilities and if like most not mixing audio with telemetry tactile (properly). Then clearly, you could be obtaining improved immersion if doing it right. Even if not mixing audio/telemetry based tactile these "exciters" should help to improve immersion with Simvibe, SSW or SBS.

The idea/tests, being shared is about "how" to take "your immersion" further and at little additional cost. All I can do is share my own findings, its upto people themselves if they find it interesting or want to do similar.

I do struggle though wondering why would someone spend $100 on a d.i.y amp and goto the bother when we can buy good 100w amps for about half that. In my example under £50 (as linked). That extra money could go towards a decent audio EQ or Mixer.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I do struggle though wondering why would someone spend $100 on a d.i.y amp and goto the bother when we can buy good 100w amps for about half that. In my example under £50 (as linked). That extra money could go towards a decent audio EQ or Mixer.

At the time I couldn't find anything I could get my hands on that was near the cost I paid in the US. The amp and PS were $55 and $26 USD and part of me just wanted to see if it would work. I wanted to see if a Class H PS pushing a class D amplifier would work well and it does I had a 50W surround receiver that kept shutting down on me, so I was very happy this worked.

Also keep in mind that my amp drives 4 channels separately which would require two of the amps you listed.

I think when you are in VR your priorities change a bit. I could never play on a screen. It does nothing for me. In VR being able to look around naturally and into corners etc.. just makes all the difference. I also realize that many don't like VR and that's fine too. With the NLRv3, it is just enough to make you "there". The added tactile response gives me fine detail and some engine rpm. For me that's enough.

I'm sorry if anything I said came off as being negative about your efforts. I think that you always need people who go the extra mile to see what is possible and share with others so we can stand on each other's shoulders over time.

 

[Mr Latte]

At the time I couldn't find anything I could get my hands on that was near the cost I paid in the US. The amp and PS were $55 and $26 USD and part of me just wanted to see if it would work. I wanted to see if a Class H PS pushing a class D amplifier would work well and it does I had a 50W surround receiver that kept shutting down on me, so I was very happy this worked.

Also keep in mind that my amp drives 4 channels separately which would require two of the amps you listed.

I think when you are in VR your priorities change a bit. I could never play on a screen. It does nothing for me. In VR being able to look around naturally and into corners etc.. just makes all the difference. I also realize that many don't like VR and that's fine too. With the NLRv3, it is just enough to make you "there". The added tactile response gives me fine detail and some engine rpm. For me that's enough.

I'm sorry if anything I said came off as being negative about your efforts. I think that you always need people who go the extra mile to see what is possible and share with others so we can stand on each other's shoulders over time.

Hey no probs, I just tend to get more excited about "tactile" than others. I am curious to see what can be added with this approach in using the exciters but controlling them to do best what we need them for. Potential looks good considering how affordable and amps for these are.

Units With Specific Roles
What can also work well, without even "mixing" of both the telemetry and game audio. Is to just add additional tactile units with the role of representing the audio-tactile. These will then combine in with the tactile already operating.

It brings less control but still enables the user to find a volume balance that both are felt and can complement each other. This can be via a single unit or say 4 (or more) units for audio-tactile to work in balance with 4 used by a CM configuration in Simvibe or any preferred tactile software.

Certainly one of the KEY elements with tactile is not overwhelming a unit with too much to do.
Having units for "telemetry engine" effects separate from "other effects" can be very beneficial and then if desired, incorporating "audio-tactile" is a good way to go about improving tactile immersion.

Testing as always is needed to accommodate personal preferences too.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Passion is a great thing! I think life has more meaning when you are passionate about things!

When you don't really care about anything around you, life is pretty dreary.

 

[boern69]

hi,
wotever said: he is making an upgrade for shake it - where u can change the curve new ways.

perhaps this is intresting
meanwhile I connected my shakers and drove rf1 and fm7 . Great !!!
here is my setup

!!only first tests!!
What I can say so far is
I hav 8 conic absorbers under the rig
it works perfect
The torsion is complete different compared with an retangular frame rig
its more flexible
Front and rear is better decoupled .
The seat is harder as a normal car seat but still comfortable and more sensitive
Wanna say effect come very clear and straight especially in rf1
The dumpers und the rig are moved a bit inside ->to the middle
this feels better for me than having them direct under the shakers
so far so good ...

p.s. the amp is great it works and is passive
All is very quite - i wont miss this again great immersion