Upgrade advice

[joe.mc94]

Hey,
looking to upgrade my wheel, currently im using a thrustmaster tx leather edition and i jus upgraded my pedals to csl elite with load cell and the difference is amazing so im wondering will the difference in going from a tx to a CSL Elite wheel base be worth it? i dont have the biggest budget so im looking at the bottom of the fanatec tree and the csw v2.5 would be the most i could spend so if anyone could give me any help/advice on upgrading to one of these it would be highly appreciated as the tx is the only wheel i've had and i got it when it was released so its on its last legs just now and i cant fault it, its ran flawlessly for nearly 5 years but now i feel the ffb seems to be dying a bit which im sad and happy about cause its been a really amazing purchase and worth every penny, i hope fanatec are as good as they look also

 

[Cyberbug]

If you want real difference then you have to go with direct drive. I know you have budget constraint. But my advice would be to go DD even if its fanatic DD1.

 

[ThugUK]

Agree, go DD.
It may be out of your budget now, but buy used or save up some more before you buy.
A used AF DD1 may cost around £600.

The Fanatec belt driven is a great wheel/base, but after a few months you will think 'wish I had waited'.
Buying the best now will last forever and you will know that you never have to 'upgrade' again.

People don't think twice about spending £800 on a graphics card that they may need to replace after 3 years, but other hardware/peripherals are probably a better use of money as they can last a life time.

 

[Miguel Batista]

Interesting read:

https://www.reddit.com/r/simracing/comments/9m8w3f/i_switched_from_an_osw_to_a_csl_elite_ps4_wheel/

Now my opinion, I went from a T300 to a TS PC racer which is equivalent to a CSL elite wheelbase and i must say that the more I use it, the more of an upgrade over the T300 think it is. It is not however, as much of an upgrade as when I went from the dfgt to the T300.

Eventually I will get a DD (once i have the space for a permanent setup) because I want to feel 20Nm of force on a fast corner like group C drivers used to! It is not because I feel that i am lacking something on the TSPC! The wheel provides strong, smooth, consistent ffb that feels natural and I get all the information I need from it. Heck, I need to turn down ffb strength on most cars as the wheel is far stronger than any car with steering assist!

The biggest differences going from a T300/TX base to a CSL/TSPC wheel are the self aligning torque (it is awesome!) and the small details on the road that you can't feel with a T300 but can with a high end wheel. Now, DD wheels will give you even more detail and torque but from everything I have read and seen, it falls mostly on the nice to have category.


So, you will not be disappointed with either the CSL elite or the CSW. if you are under budget constraints, also consider that getting a DD is not just "getting a DD" it is getting the wheel, the rim or rims, and the platform to which you will mount the wheel (a sturdy rig). These costs will add up.

Bottom line is, the CSL is probably all you need and the CSW is a treat to yourself. You can't go wrong either way and it will be quite an upgrade! And you can always upgrade again and get a DD further down the line when costs are not such a big issue anymore.

 

[Yasko]

I've been using my 2.5 for two years now with no plans to upgrade any time soon. I don't know what the dd drives like, so I don't long for it. After every race with my 2.5, I think it was worth every penny. I'm sure the dd is AWSOME, but so is the 2.5 in it's own way.
There's no bad choice, it's all about budget.

 

[joe.mc94]

for me its not so much about the immersion, like i said i've been pretty into it the last 4/5 years and never had any longing to upgrade from the tx, it was fairly cheap and has been put through its paces i've used it for a very large amount of hours im meaning like if i really thought about it over 2k easy and not had any desire for more immersion or realism. im on the fence as to going between the csl elite and ts-pc now after looking more into the ts and it being from thrustmaster since im now comfortable that i know it will be worth the money. as for the DD i dont have the money for one and im not really that interested in a DD wheel anyway plus it would take me forever to save enough to buy one and my tx is dying as we speak so i need a replacement for it pretty soon and DD is out of that question but i appreciate all the feedback, i wouldnt have even thought of that ts-pc racer if it wasnt mentioned above so thanks for all the replies. i was mainly enquiring if the CSL Elite would have a strong build quality, FFB and last me at least 2-3 years cause im not sure how fanatec wheels are but if i was judging from their pedals i would say it looks like it will be the case, i should maybe have made that clear in the original post

 

[Miguel Batista]

for me its not so much about the immersion, like i said i've been pretty into it the last 4/5 years and never had any longing to upgrade from the tx, it was fairly cheap and has been put through its paces i've used it for a very large amount of hours im meaning like if i really thought about it over 2k easy and not had any desire for more immersion or realism. im on the fence as to going between the csl elite and ts-pc now after looking more into the ts and it being from thrustmaster since im now comfortable that i know it will be worth the money. as for the DD i dont have the money for one and im not really that interested in a DD wheel anyway plus it would take me forever to save enough to buy one and my tx is dying as we speak so i need a replacement for it pretty soon and DD is out of that question but i appreciate all the feedback, i wouldnt have even thought of that ts-pc racer if it wasnt mentioned above so thanks for all the replies. i was mainly enquiring if the CSL Elite would have a strong build quality, FFB and last me at least 2-3 years cause im not sure how fanatec wheels are but if i was judging from their pedals i would say it looks like it will be the case, i should maybe have made that clear in the original post

What pedals are you using?

 

[BorisAngel]

A used Accuforce would be a good option at that price point.

 

[Miguel Batista]

A used Accuforce would be a good option at that price point.

It isn't though. Can't seem to find a second hand unit and then you have all the trouble of the rest of the setup you need to buy in order to run the wheel. Unless he already has a sturdy rig, he would need that and then the extra bits are more expensive than a TS PC or a CSL/CSW.

 

[Kek700]

I would look at @RasmusP articles, that would
answer all your questions. He puts a lot of effort into
every thing he writes, plus having friends who have DD wheels has a reasonably broad experience on this subject.
I think he recently bought a CSW 2.5, can give as near as you can to an expert view on this very subject.
If he spots his name he may chime in with a response.
If not, he has,I think, just written on this subject in some depth.

 

[RasmusP]

If you can afford it: get the csw 2.5
The stronger and smoother a wheel, the more details you get and the more "solid and real" it feels. Bumps feel like actually hitting something and hit like *boing* "yeah there was a bump".
But the smoother a wheel, the more empty it will feel when driving straight.

I had a ts-pc for a week and drove a csl elite at a local store for an hour.
Plus having two friends with DD wheels. An osw 20nm and a new simucube 2 pro.
For me it's clear that a not-as-smooth teethed belt gives some nice initial resistance. It makes the wheel feel thick and solid when driving straight while that resistance becomes lower once you start turning.

With the csw 2.5 I have to set some dampening to always be on. Otherwise driving straight has absolutely no resistance in the wheel. You still feel little bumps and details but there's no resistance to lean against when turning in.
On the other hand, if you set the dampening one click too high, the resistance when quickly turning the wheel a lot, like when going for a wild ride in the dirt games will be too much and tiring you out.

With a DD wheel you'll have the same problem. Awesome details and clarity but even less resistance when driving straight.
You can get it to feel nice when driving straight via the DD software but then you'll have the same problem I have with my csw...

Overall though, the clarity, punch, strength, low noise level and possibilities of the csw 2.5 are the best compromise in my opinion. The ts-pc and csl elite are lacking too much overall to be truly satisfying.

I've written a bit more about this all. Here is the link to my post from yesterday and a video that's pretty convincing about quality and noise levels of the csw:
https://www.racedepartment.com/posts/3027322/

Interesting read:

https://www.reddit.com/r/simracing/comments/9m8w3f/i_switched_from_an_osw_to_a_csl_elite_ps4_wheel/

Awesome link, thanks for this! Pretty much shares my opinion on everything. Reading this I'd say the csw 2.5 does a better job when it comes to the downsides and criticism the reddit post author has about his csl elite wheel.

Wheels in the video in this order:
Ts-pc - g25 - dfgt - g27 - csw 2.5. Then startups of ts-pc and csw 2.5

 

[joe.mc94]

damn thanks @RasmusP thats actually been really helpful. and thanks to everyone else for your inputs but as for a DD wheel i genuinely cant get one, they are too expensive and the fact i would need a rig to run it also just adds to that expense as i currently just clamp my wheel to my desk.

What pedals are you using?

i bought the CSL Elite pedals with a loadcell and they've been amazing so far!

 

[RasmusP]

and the fact i would need a rig to run it also just adds to that expense as i currently just clamp my wheel to my desk.

I'm using a wheelstand pro and my office chair. Also the csl elite lc set btw.
Everything is wobbling etc but it's fine and fun.
I'd really recommend the csw 2.5 also for using it on a desk too but you need to buy the table clamp then.
Or screw it to the table, lol.
You can simply reduce the strength to make it usable in every situation and but you'll keep the better fidelity, clarity, turning speed etc of it.

Hitting a pole in dirt rally has never been so awesome haha. With the logitech it was a little notch just like any bump. With the ts-pc you had the feeling of hitting something solid that gave way (the street sign poles fly away but slow you down a little).
With the csw and 90% details (0% is a rubber band, 100% is grinding your teeth on the tarmac), hitting a sign pole feels like... Well hitting a sign pole!